Prabhupada: You are growing this flowers?

Sanka: Yes, Srila Prabhupada.

Prabhupada: Many?

Sanka: Many, Srila Prabhupada

Prabhupada: That's nice. It is very nice flower.

Sanka: Also campa trees, many campa trees, down here, Srila Prabhupada.

Prabhupada: Ah, thank you. Grow such flowers. [break]

Harikesa: (Whispers) Got an umbrella?

Prabhupada: What are these trees?

Harikesa: We should bring an umbrella.

Prabhupada: These... [break] There is no understanding? [break]

Dr. Patel: Japan also.

Prabhupada: Japan also. Well, everyone is against us.

Dr. Patel: No, these boys who are recruited newly. They don't have much about the idea of Vaisnavism.

Prabhupada: That's all right. That's a fact. But what can I do? They are my helper.

Dr. Patel: They have to be trained up earlier and then let loose. Otherwise, you know, they create it. Because all the bad impressions are for them.

Prabhupada: No. They'll be trained while working. Not that simply theorizing at home, no.

Dr. Patel: That's right, but I think...

Prabhupada: They should work, and at the same time, they may fall down, just like a child tries to walk, falls down, again walks, again... Then he becomes complete.

Dr. Patel: Those thirty characteristics of a sadhu that are depicted in the, in Bhagavata....

Prabhupada: That is not possible in one day.

Dr. Patel: Thirty cannot come, but a few should come.

Prabhupada: Yes. Few that... They are... Yasyasti bhaktir bhagavaty akiñcana sarvair gunais tatra samasate [SB 5.18.12]. If they have got unflinching faith in Krsna and guru, that is all qualification.

Dr. Patel: That is a fact.

Prabhupada: That is all qualification. Yasyasti bhaktir bhagavaty akiñcan sarvair gunaiḥ;. All these qualities are already there.

Dr. Patel: But for that you see, he has to withdraw his mind and all the senses from...

Prabhupada: Even he does not withdraw, even it is suduracara, api cet suduracaro bhajate mam ananya-bhak sadhur eva saḥ; [Bg. 9.30].

Dr. Patel: But then bhajate mam ananya-bhak.

Prabhupada: Yes, ananya-bhak, they are doing that.

Dr. Patel: Without severing his mind, anywhere he goes...

Prabhupada: No. They are fixed up in Krsna. That is a fact. That is a fact. You cannot bribe them to take from this Krsna consciousness. That is not possible. They may commit some mistake, but they are fixed up in Krsna. That is bhajate mam ananya-bhak. You cannot deviate them. Sadhur eva sa mantavyaḥ; [Bg. 9.30]. So this qualification they have, and for this qualification they will be triumphant, without anything else. We shall return now?

Dr. Patel: Those thirty qualifications do come naturally, as you say, but they come slowly. But (Hindi) we must teach them this in the krsna-bhakti, the qualities of a real sadhu.

Prabhupada: If you make a condition that "First of all you become qualified; then you preach," that will never come. Rupa Gosvami therefore recommends, yena tena prakarena mana krsne nivesayet: "Somehow or other bring him to Krsna consciousness." Then other... Sarve vidhi-nisedhaḥ;. Vidhi-nisedhaḥ;. Sarve vidhi-nisedha syur etayor eva kinkaraḥ;. Automatically they'll come as servant. First of all let their mind be fixed up on Krsna consciousness.

Dr. Patel: But the present difficulties are because they don't know the vidhi-nisedhas.

Prabhupada: So how they can know?

Dr. Patel: That is the difficulty.

Prabhupada: How they can know?

Dr. Patel: That is the difficulty.

Prabhupada: So we... we are bringing them from which status? Yes. You cannot expect that they will be perfect all of a sudden, overnight. It is not possible. But their mind being fixed up on Krsna consciousness, that is the first qualification. They do not know anything beyond Krsna. That's all.

Dr. Patel: In our Vaisnava religions this vidhi-nisedha is a must right from the beginning.

Prabhupada: Yes. It is must. It is must. But you cannot force in the beginning. That is not possible.

Dr. Patel: But they have to be explained of it.

Prabhupada: But if they fix up their mind in Krsna, the vidhi-nisedha automatically will come. That process I adopted. When they came to me I never said that "You don't do this, don't do that, don't do that." No. "You simply come here and chant Hare Krsna." These are... Old students learned. I never said that "You have to follow these rules, these regulations, then you can come..." Because if chanting is properly done, then ceto-darpana-marjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12]—the mind will be cleansed of all dirty things. Srnvatam sva-katha krsna punya-sravana-kirtanaḥ; [SB 1.2.17]. Simply by hearing and chanting, they will be pious. Hrdy antaḥ; 'stho hy abhadrani vidhunoti suhrt satam. Krsna is there. As soon as He sees one devotee is sincerely chanting, He'll help, cleansing the heart. Vidhunoti... You will read Ajamila upakhyana. Simply by chanting Narayana...

Dr. Patel: Ajamila got it.

Prabhupada: Offenseless.

Dr. Patel: All psychological matters, and in the bhakti-marga, it is the suksma-sarira which is more important than the sthula.

Prabhupada: Eh.

Dr. Patel: The behavior of the suksma-sarira is more important than the sthula.

Prabhupada: Oh, yes. That is... The example is given that Ganges water, even it is superficially... There are floating stool and foams...

Dr. Patel: Dead bodies also.

Prabhupada: So this stool and foam does not pollute the Ganges water. You set it aside and take your dip. That example is given that. External feature does not pollute the soul. Asango 'ya hi purusaḥ;. The purusa... it is simply our abhinivesa. Abhinivesa is dangerous. Otherwise the soul has nothing to do with this body.

Dr. Patel: That's right. No, soul is separate from all the three bodies.

Prabhupada: Exactly like that: one is on the motorcar. He has nothing to do with the motorcar, but if he thinks, "My car is life. Everything my..."

Dr. Patel: Air is coming into...

Prabhupada: That abhinivesa gives him trouble. So this abhinivesa can be removed by increasing Krsna consciousness. And the Krsna consciousness is increased by following the regulative duties. Rise early in the morning, have mangala arati, this, that, up to ten o'clock. Means vidhi.

Dr. Patel: That is religious vidhi.

Prabhupada: So by vidhi, he becomes practiced, and....

Dr. Patel: That becomes a nature then.

Prabhupada: Yes. Then it is nature.

Dr. Patel: And finally it gives you saksad-dharma. (?)

Prabhupada: Yes.

Dr. Patel: All that thing...

Prabhupada: They are... The vidhi-nisedha, if you give up vidhi-nisedha, then you cannot improve.

Dr. Patel: No, the vidhi-nisedha is a must. Otherwise you are daitya sort of a thing, even though you may be practicing anything.

Prabhupada: So that they are doing. They are following the regulative principles: no illicit sex, no intoxication, no meat-eating. This is the nisedha.

Dr. Patel: I quite understand, sir. But the most important, the climax of the whole thing, is that you see the presence of God everywhere, which is very difficult in the beginning, I understand. But they should be informed that "This is our aim, that Krsna is everywhere, and we have a darsana of Krsna everywhere." Then and then he would not spite another man.

Prabhupada: That they know. This is preliminary. Krsna is everywhere. Hare Krsna. Not like... Not like the Arya-samajhis: "Krsna is everywhere except in the temple."

Dr. Patel: You have to create a temple within you, then seat Krsna there.

Prabhupada: No, whatever it may be, their proposition is "Krsna is everywhere, but not in this temple." "Don't go to the temple." That is their proposition.

Dr. Patel: They have theorized that just to oppose Islam. I don't think they meant much about it.

Prabhupada: What they have done? Simply hallucination.

Dr. Patel: They believe more in the Vedic scriptures and Vedic injunctions than other things.

Prabhupada: And all the acaryas, they are fools.

Dr. Patel: No, no.

Prabhupada: Then they have meant that...

Dr. Patel: They don't believe in these Puranas. That is a misfortune for them.

Prabhupada: Why? Why?

Dr. Patel: That is a misfortune.

Prabhupada: Not only that. They write Satya-artha-prakasa. That means they have understood the real meaning, and all the acaryas, they are fools. That is their intelligence, satya-artha-prakasa, that so long there was no satyartha; now they have invented satyartha. This is their intelligence.

Dr. Patel: So Vaisnava acaryas have actually... I mean, through bhakti people realize the presence of God everywhere.

Prabhupada: No, no. In comparison to Vaisnava acaryas... Apart from the Vaisnava acaryas, they have done nothing even like me, what to speak of the acaryas. I am only a servant and a servant of the acaryas. They could not do anything. They admit. Real Arya-samajis, they admit that, that "What was our program, you have executed."

Dr. Patel: In Punjab there was lot of Muslim hierarchy, and that is what they wanted, that... Arya-samajis.

Prabhupada: But we are not against any "ism," either Muslimism or Christianism. This Krsna consciousness, we never preach against anyone.

Dr. Patel: It was a socio-economic problem or socio-political, not a religious problem.

Prabhupada: Whatever it may be, but we never criticize anyone. When the Christians come forward—"Whether our Christian religion can also give the same meaning"—"Yes, why not?" Yes.

Dr. Patel: It has the same bhakti.

Prabhupada: I never said...

Dr. Patel:ut I think the Christianity is nothing but bhagavata-dharma. It has been preached in a different way.

Prabhupada: They inquire, "What is your opinion of Jesus Christ?" And "He is our guru."

Dr. Patel: It's a fact.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Dr. Patel: I mean, that is what it is, what what we take, in fact...

Prabhupada: We do not...

Dr. Patel: The Christians don't know that we take it like that.

Prabhupada: Even if we say "Mohammed," why not? Anyone who has preached Krsna consciousness, maybe little differently according to time, circumstances, but anyone who has tried to preach the God consciousness, he is guru. Yei krsna tattva vetta, sei guru haya [Cc. Madhya 8.128]. That is Caitanya Mahaprabhu's version. Anyone who preaches about the Supreme Lord, he is guru. Maybe in a different way, according to time, circumstances. The Mohammed also said Allah akbar.

Dr. Patel: Only the difference is that Mohammed is trying to worship nirañjana, nirakara, and we...

Prabhupada: No, no, not nirakara. That is not...

Dr. Patel: Even Christianity considers His akara—"God has form."

Prabhupada: No, Mohammed also has got... Caitanya Mahaprabhu argued in Koran. He proved there is krsna-bhakti. He proved with the Pathans. Yes.

Dr. Patel: Otherwise the Christianity is just our way, I mean, absolutely Vaisnavism. It has been wrongly preached and wrongly initiated in India. That is why it has fallen to disrepute. Otherwise Christianity is just Vaisnava-dharma. Nothing else, to my mind, the way I have studied, I mean the New Testament and all the Christian, all the things. Now, the sermon of Christ is nothing but the preaching of Bhagavad-gita.

Prabhupada: I never criticized. I simply said that positive side, God consciousness.

Dr. Patel: Christ himself was drunk with God consciousness totally.

Prabhupada: Eh?

Dr. Patel: Christ himself was drunk with God consciousness in toto, absolute.... There cannot be a higher bhakta than that. It is said that Jesus Christ learned all these things in India. It might be a fact?

Passerby: (Hindi)

Dr. Patel: And he daily bhakta. (?) He came for puja, for guru. [break]

Prabhupada: ...devata bhaktaḥ;, te 'pi mam eva kaunteya yajanty avidhi-purvakam. They give examples, as the gopis worshiped Katyayani. But that is not avidhi. They went to Katyayani for getting the favor of Krsna. They prayed to mother Katyayani, "Please be favorable to us so that Krsna may be pleased upon us." Others go to beg from Katyayani some material benefits, but the gopis, they did not ask for any material benefit. And therefore that is vidhi.

Dr. Patel: Gopis... Those who worship with Krsna with sort of a sexual intention, but they became beyond the, I mean, gunas, nirguna (Hindi), because Krsna was nirguna. That is the thing.

Prabhupada: Yes. They became purified. That is simply so they are purified. So...

Dr. Patel: Then, in ordinary social conditions also, when you have a friend, you become a great lover...

Prabhupada: Any condition, if you come to Krsna, then you become purified.

Dr. Patel: I know. But what I mean to say, when you have conditioned yourself with Krsna, Krsna's gunas will come to you, I mean...

Prabhupada: Yes.

Dr. Patel: ...nirguna, nirgunatvam, beyond the three gunas of maya.

Prabhupada: There is a verse in the Srimad-Bhagavatam, etad isanam isasya. This is the, what is called, isanam, means controlling power, of Krsna, that when He comes in this material world, He is not infected.

Dr. Patel: That is all the Vaisnava acaryas' teaching.

Prabhupada: That is isanam.

Dr. Patel: Even though we see Him as an ordinary physical body or a human body, but that is divya body, and it is not contaminated by any gunas.

Prabhupada: And because it is not contaminated, therefore it is not ordinary body. Therefore anyone who thinks of Krsna as possessing ordinary body, he is described as muḍha. Avajananti mam muḍhaḥ; manusim tanum asritaḥ; [Bg. 9.11]. In the ordinary human, this material body, nobody can be controller of the laws of nature. That is not possible. (aside:) Hare Krsna. Jaya. Unless one has got spiritual body, it is not possible to be unaffected by this material world. Krsna never became old although He lived for a 125 years. He never became old. Now, how you can say...?

Dr. Patel: He was the controller of maya but we are being controlled by the maya.

Prabhupada: No, no, anyway, a 125-years-old and looking like a young man of twenty years old. How it is possible in a material body?

Dr. Patel: So all the avataras of God, they come with a controlling...

Prabhupada: Atma-maya.

Dr. Patel: Controlling.

Prabhupada: Sambhavamy atma-mayaya [Bg. 4.6]. They do not come under the control of this mahamaya. They have got their own spiritual potency. Ahladini-sakti. Atmanam srjamy aham. Atmanam: Myself, I advent." How it can be like ordinary man? We are... karmana daiva-netrena [SB 3.31.1]. We get body. But He says....

Dr. Patel: And it is by His own free will.

Prabhupada: Yes, as He likes. He likes to appear as fish, that's all. Not that... Ordinary fish, it is forced to take the body of a fish.

Dr. Patel: We are controlled by maya and its actions...

Prabhupada: Yes.

Dr. Patel: ...and take this body for the fulfillment of maya.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Dr. Patel: He takes the body to fulfill His mission.

Prabhupada: Yes. That is the way. That is real understanding of Krsna. Hare Krsna. As soon as the Mayavadi thinks that Krsna also accepts a material body... Therefore they are called Mayavadi. They are called Mayavadi because they think Krsna's body is also maya. Therefore they are known as Mayavadis.

Dr. Patel: He takes birth in divya-vigraha.

Prabhupada: Yes. Their story is: "As soon as there is form, it is maya." They cannot think beyond that in their own terms. Because we have got this form, material body, so their generalization is "As soon as Krsna or Visnu, anyone, if He takes this form, then it is material." That is called maya.

Dr. Patel: But He takes the form with the control over maya. We take the form under control of maya.

Prabhupada: Yes. He is the controller of maya. That they do not understand.

Dr. Patel: They don't understand what is divya-vigraha.

Prabhupada: Yes. They understand slightly sac-cid-ananda, but they cannot think of that sac-cid-ananda-vigrahaḥ;. Sastra says isvaraḥ; paramaḥ; krsnaḥ; sac-cid-ananda-vigrahaḥ; [Bs. 5.1]. That they cannot understand, being less intelligent. And Caitanya Mahaprabhu has explained, they cannot understand this. Mayavadi haya krsna aparadhi.

Dr. Patel: They are aparadhis of Krsna.

Prabhupada: Yes. They, the Mayavadis, they are offender to Krsna; therefore they cannot understand Krsna. Avisuddha-buddhayaḥ; [SB 10.2.32]. In other places it is said, avisuddha-buddhayaḥ;. Their intelligence is still unclean. Vimukta-maninaḥ;. They are thinking that they have become liberated, maninaḥ;, imposition, but actually

avisuddha-buddhayaḥ;. Their intelligence is not yet clear.

Dr. Patel: Clouded, cloudy.

Prabhupada: Clouded, yes. Avisuddha. Therefore confirms this. Because the avisuddha-buddhayaḥ;, it takes many, many lives to purify it. Bahunam janmanam ante [Bg. 7.19]. When they come to the purified stage, then they surrender vasudevaḥ; sarvam iti sa mahatma sudurlabha [Bg. 7.19]. They... [break] ...to be avisuddha-buddhayaḥ; unless they come to the point of surrendering to Krsna. And we are unintelligent persons. We do it immediately. Let us do it immediately. Why we shall wait for many, many births?

Dr. Patel: It is not that, sir. I think complete surrendering of our ego at the sacred feet of Krsna.

Prabhupada: Yes, and they cannot.

Dr. Patel: That is bhakti.

Prabhupada: Yes, but they cannot do it.

Dr. Patel: Because they are egoistic toward the body.

Prabhupada: Not only that. They think they are very intelligent, overintelligent. They do not take advice of Krsna. They are so intelligent that Krsna says sarva-dharman parityajya [Bg. 18.66], Krsna says, bhaktya mam abhijanati [Bg. 18.55], and still they will stick to their jñana, yoga, karma. Krsna clearly says that "You cannot understand Me by this process." Bhaktya mam abhijanati yavan yas casmi : [Bg. 18.55] "If you want to know Me in truth, then bhakti. Nothing else." And still, they will stick to those.

Dr. Patel: No, but I think they have not understood even Sankaracarya. Sankaracarya has composed stotras on Visnu and... Bhaja govindam, bhaja govinda, govindam bhaja muḍha-mate.

Prabhupada: Yes. They have become more than Sankaracarya.

Dr. Patel: They have seen the...

Prabhupada: Just like later on, the Gandhi's disciples became more than Gandhi, more than Gandhi. That's all. Gandhi planned village organization, and Jawaharlal Nehru planned industrialization. And everything failed. There is no money, and he wanted to establish industry like America.

Dr. Patel: But he did not understand economics, sir. What is money after all? Money is nothing but the labor transformed into materials. We had the huge labor of sixty crores of people. He was capable of transforming that labor into material unfortunately and...

Prabhupada: Anyway, they changed the Gandhi's program.

Dr. Patel: That is what Gandhi understood, but he did not.

Prabhupada: How he can understand? He wanted to utilize to become prime minister.

Dr. Patel: Internationally that happened.

Prabhupada: Hare Krsna. Jaya. Now the village program of Gandhi is lost.

Dr. Patel: Absolutely. But whatever he has got, he had a lot of vidhi-nisedha...

Prabhupada: And it is lost because it was not God-centered. It is lost.

Dr. Patel: But he was God conscious. I mean, I have been brought up in that camp. Gandhi was a saint. But these people could not follow him. They have not understood him well. Those people who understood him, they died out. They died out.

Prabhupada: Now, now, Gandhi's asrama, was there any temple for worshiping Krsna? No.

Dr. Patel: They had a temple. My wife was brought up there in the asrama.

Prabhupada: There was a temple?

Dr. Patel: In the morning they had to say prayer to Deva. (?) Gita-mandir they had. They had all the characteristics of a good saint.

Prabhupada: Why not from the beginning? No, no, no. Gandhi did not believe in Krsna. No, yes, he has written, that "I know..."

Dr. Patel: Not that the way we believe, but he did believe.

Prabhupada: No. That means he is right and we are wrong.

Dr. Patel: We may be right. We may be right. Who knows? Many ways may be right. It is not only that one way be right.

Prabhupada: Then how we understand who is right and who is wrong?

Dr. Patel: There cannot be only one way. There are many ways.

Prabhupada: That is the defect. Therefore we present Bhagavad-gita as it is, no other way.

Indian man (2): Gandhi was a politician.

Dr. Patel: He was not a politician. He was more a bhakta than a politician. He fell in politics. He was a saintly man turned into a politician. He was more a saintly man than a politician. He failed in politics. I have seen it.

Prabhupada: No, he was studied by the governor of Bengal that "Either Gandhi is a saintly man amongst the politicians or he is a politician among the saintly persons." (laughter)

Dr. Patel: These people have not been able to understand Gandhi's intentions. It is the misfortune of this country they have not been able to carry out his message. Other people are able to carry out his messages. Other people of the world are able to understand him well, but we people are fools not to understand him. No. His socio-economic condition..., I mean, program. His program for lifting the society... You are religious head. He was a sort of a, another man, but in his own spirit he was doing a good work.

Prabhupada: Our proposition is that Bhagavad-gita begins to distinguish the soul...

Dr. Patel: From the body.

Prabhupada: And the body. But Gandhi has never said anywhere.

Dr. Patel: He was always, you know, anasakta-yoga.

Prabhupada: No, no, that is all right, but...

Dr. Patel: He always used to, daily, twice...

Prabhupada: In the beginning this is the... You can have any yoga, anasakti or asakti, but the primary instruction is one has to understand first of all this, that one is not this body. And the national movement is based on this bodily concept of life. "I am Indian."

Dr. Patel: All the national... All the world's on that body.

Prabhupada: So that is the difference. First of all one has to understand that he is neither Indian nor American nor English. But if you go on pushing on national movement, where is the chance of understanding that you are not this body? Just like our movement, we never say anything national. We simply state that "You are not this body. You are spirit soul."

Dr. Patel: Gandhiji, when he went to one first round table conference in London, and he had to confront those women, I mean the wives of the workers of the Manchester mills, he said that "We are poor." They say, "We are poor. We are suffering for the poor of India." Then he had to give this argument that "Poors of India are much poorer than what you are." So he is trying to..., I mean, take a...

Prabhupada: So that is bodily concept.

Dr. Patel: But he was in politics.

Prabhupada: Poor or rich, that is due to this body.

Dr. Patel: In politics you have got to be body conscious. Politics or war is the same thing, after all. Your sphere is much different, sir, than those. And we cannot compare them with you or you with them. You are a, I mean, out and out a bhakta and a saint. He was a politician.

Prabhupada: No. I am talking about the Bhagavad-gita,...

Dr. Patel: All right, Bhagavad-gita. Whatever little we understand, we preach.

Prabhupada: ...that the first principle of Bhagavad-gita is to understand that "I am not this body."

Dr. Patel: Gandhiji's program was to emancipate the poor, downtrodden people of India in whatever way... In that way, in which there is no implication of falsehood.

Prabhupada: No, it may not be falsehood, but...

Dr. Patel: It will be by the right way.

Prabhupada: This may not be the right way.

Dr. Patel: May not be or wrong way, we do not know. But then he did. According to him, he brought and he tried, and he struggled...

Prabhupada: No, no, we simply study that the Bhagavad-gita begins with this education, that "You are not this body." Yes. Dehino 'smin yatha dehe kaumaram yauvanam jara [Bg. 2.13]. Asmin dehe, dehi. It has nothing to do with this kaumaram yauvanam jara, tatha dehantara-praptiḥ;. This is to be understood. The whole world requires to understand this verse; otherwise they remain go-khara.

Dr. Patel: That is right, sir. That has been explained from time immemorial, but the world does not understand.

Prabhupada: No, no, why not? These people are understanding. These all Krsna conscious students, they are understanding. Otherwise...

Dr. Patel: These type of students were eternally there with all the religious teaching, past and present. But unfortunately...

Prabhupada: So those who were there, they understood. They...

Dr. Patel: Unfortunate for the world it is not going to do that.

Prabhupada: No, there was no preaching. That's it. Now the preaching is going on. They are understanding. Nobody preached this. If you... Just like a big building. If the foundation is wrong, then it will not stay.

Dr. Patel: This Bhagavad-gita has got everything, all aspects of life.

Prabhupada: No, no. This is the beginning of teaching, that "You are not this body." If you remain in the false understanding that "I am this body," "I am Indian," "I am Englishman," "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim," there is no spiritual education. Mohita. That is called mohita. Tribhir gunamayair bhavair, mohitam nabhijanati. He remains in ignorance. (aside:) (Hindi) Jaya.

Passerby: (Hindi)

Prabhupada: He's a great devotee. Humbleness.

trnad api sunicena
taror api sahisnuna
amanina manadena
kirtaniyaḥ; sada hariḥ;
[Cc. Adi 17.31]

Caitanya...

Dr. Patel: Out of all those things, mana...

Prabhupada: Yes.

Dr. Patel: ...is the first thing that a man should...

Prabhupada: Humble and meek. Christ also taught like that. "The humble and meek will go to the kingdom of God."

Dr. Patel: "Meek and humble will..." What is that?

Prabhupada: Here the disease is nobody is humble, nobody is meek.

Dr. Patel: That is car-dharma.

Prabhupada: Not car...

Dr. Patel: Car-dharma is that.

Prabhupada: That is material dharma.

Dr. Patel: This is Kali-yuga, going on.

Prabhupada: Kali-yuga, it is excessive, but this is going on. Even... Maybe in Satya-yuga it was less.

Dr. Patel: Maybe nothing, perhaps, the first Satya-yuga. People were all saints.

Prabhupada: (Hindi)

Dr. Patel: But they are fools. They should have kept more on the side of it.

Prabhupada: It is now in the middle of the street.

Dr. Patel: The government of this country is going on everywhere.

Prabhupada: We have nothing to do. We are world, but it is in the middle of the street.

Dr. Patel: I have got a killa. (?)

Prabhupada: Yes. It has dignified.

Dr. Patel: They ought to thicken wall with a little under because this kacca wall foundation is there. They should make it... This wall. They should dress it up, the foundation, which is above. No? You are going away today?

Prabhupada: