Prabhupada: (Hindi) (Hindi conversation) [break]

German man (1): Germany.

Prabhupada: Hm?

German man (1): Germany.

Prabhupada: Germany.

English man (2): England.

Prabhupada: He is German. I went to Hamburg.

German man (1): In Hamburg. In Batche Schlossen(?)?

German devotee (3): (German)

German man (1): (German) The very beginning center was in the Batche Schlossen(?), Batche(?) Street, a very small temple. And then it changed to bigger and..., in Hamburg.

Prabhupada: There is tramways.

German man (1): (German) I left Phalia(?) four years here and become a national (indistinct). (conversation with German devotee in background) [break]

Prabhupada: ...here?

Tamala Krsna: Why did you come to India?

German man (1): For, for spiritual purpose.

Prabhupada: Hm?

German man (1): Sadhana, tapasya.

Prabhupada: And what is the aim of tapasya?

Tamala Krsna: What is the aim of tapasya?

German man (1): The aim of tapasya?

Tamala Krsna: The goal.

German man (1): To see how is the one in the many.

Tamala Krsna: To see the one in the many.

Prabhupada: Very good. And what is that one?

Tamala Krsna: Prabhupada asked, "What is that one?"

German man (1): The one is this part in you and me which is together, and the many are you and me and him and we all.

Prabhupada: No, what is that one?

German man (1): That one? It's difficult to put it into name.

Tamala Krsna: He said, "It's difficult to put it into name."

Prabhupada: That means you have not found that one.

German man (1): Properly. That is why I came to you.

Prabhupada: You could not find that one.

Tamala Krsna: He said that's why he came to you.

Prabhupada: It is Krsna. Aham sarvasya prabhavo mattaḥ; sarvam pravartate [Bg. 10.8]. In the Bhagavad-gita find this.

Tamala Krsna: (aside:) Hand me the...

Prabhupada: If you cannot, hand this to Tamala.

Tamala Krsna:

aham sarvasya prabhavo
mattaḥ; sarvam pravartate
iti matva bhajante mam
budha bhava-samanvitaḥ;
[Bg. 10.8]

"I am the source of all spiritual and material worlds. Everything emanates from Me. The wise who know this perfectly engage in My devotional service and worship Me with all their hearts."

Prabhupada: Here is the one from whom everything emanates. So why don't you worship Him? Is there any purport?

Tamala Krsna: Yes. "Purport. A learned scholar who has studied the Vedas perfectly and has information from authorities like Lord Caitanya and who knows how to apply these teachings can understand that Krsna is the origin of everything in both the material and spiritual worlds. And because he knows this perfectly, he becomes firmly fixed in the devotional service of the Supreme Lord. He can never be deviated by any amount of nonsensical commentaries or by fools. All Vedic literature agrees that Krsna is the source of Brahma, Siva and all other demigods. In the Atharva Veda it is said, yo brahmanam vidadhati purvam yo vai vedams ca gapayati sma krsnaḥ;. 'It was Krsna who in the beginning instructed Brahma in Vedic knowledge and who disseminated Vedic knowledge in the past.' Then again it is said, atha puruso ha vai narayano 'kamayata prajaḥ; srjeyety upakramya. 'Then the Supreme Personality Narayana desired to create living entities.' Again it is said, narayanad brahma jayate, narayanad prajapatiḥ; prajayate, narayanad indro jayate, narayanad asṭau vasavo jayante, narayanad ekadasa rudra jayante, narayanad dvadasadityaḥ;. 'From Narayana, Brahma is born, and from Narayana, the patriarchs are also born. From Narayana, Indra is born, from Narayana the eight Vasus are born, from Narayana the eleven Rudras are born, from Narayana the twelve Adityas are born.' It is said in the same Vedas, brahmanyo devaki-putraḥ;: 'The son of Devaki, Krsna, is the Supreme Personality.' Then it is said, eko vai narayana asin na brahma na isano napo nagni-samau... [break] ...dyav-aprthivi na naksatrani na suryaḥ; sa ekaki na ramate tasya dhyanantaḥ; sthasya yatra chandogaiḥ; kriyamanasṭakadi-samjñaka stuti-stomaḥ; stomam ucyate. 'In the beginning of the creation there was only the Supreme Personality Narayana. There was no Brahma, no Siva, no fire, no moon, no stars in the sky, no sun. There was only Krsna, who creates all and enjoys all.' In the many Puranas it is said that Lord Siva was born from the highest, the Supreme Lord Krsna, and the Vedas say that it is the Supreme Lord, the creator of Brahma and Siva, who is to be worshiped. In the Moksa-dharma Krsna also says,

prajapatim ca rudram capy
aham eva srjami vai
tau hi mam na vijanito
mama maya-vimohitau

'The patriarchs, Siva and others are created by Me, though they do not know that they are created by Me because they are deluded by My illusory energy.' In the Varaha Purana it is also said,

narayanaḥ; paro devas
tasmaj jatas caturmukhaḥ;
tasmad rudro 'bhavad devaḥ;
sa ca sarva-jñatam gataḥ;

'Narayana is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and from Him Brahma was born, from whom Siva was born.' Lord Krsna is the source of all generations, and He is called the most efficient cause of everything. He says that 'Because everything is born of Me, I am the original source of it all. Everything is under Me. No one is above Me.' There is no supreme controller other than Krsna. One who understands Krsna in such a way from a bona fide spiritual master and from Vedic literature, who engages all his energy in Krsna consciousness, becomes a truly learned man. In comparison to him, all others, who do not know Krsna properly, are but fools. Only a fool would consider Krsna to be an ordinary man. A Krsna conscious person should not be bewildered by fools. He should avoid all unauthorized commentaries and interpretations on Bhagavad-gita and proceed in Krsna consciousness with determination and firmness."

Prabhupada: So here is the one. You don't accept? You are finding out the one. So where is? So here is the one. Aham adir hi devanam [Bg 10.2], mattaḥ; sarvam pravartate iti matva bhajante mam budha bhava... Hm? You have got objection to accept Krsna the supreme one?

Tamala Krsna: "What is your answer?" Prabhupada asks.

Prabhupada: Why don't you accept Him? In Vedic evidences He is the Supreme. Why?

Indian man (4): Swamiji, Christ says that he's the goal.

Prabhupada: Hm?

Indian man (4): Christ says that he's the Almighty. What is your opinion?

Tamala Krsna: He said, "Christ says that he is the Almighty. What is your opinion?"

Prabhupada: Where he said?

Indian man (4): In Bible said. "I am the God, come."

Prabhupada: He said?

Tamala Krsna: No, he never says that.

Trivikrama: "I am the son of God."

Tamala Krsna: He said, "My father who art in heaven, hallowed by Thy name. Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done." He never says, "My kingdom come, my will be done."

Trivikrama: Say, "I sit at the right hand of God."

German man (1): "The Father and me are one," he said. To give an example, the father in the heaven, and to his disciple he said, "The Father is in me. The Father is in me. I am one with the Father. I am not real, but the Father in me is doing everything. I am doing nothing." Every truth... Somebody touch his feet and they don't touch. "Don't tell me, my Father and me," he said.

Devotee (5): We chant every morning, saksad-dharitvena...

Prabhupada: No bona fide person will say that "I am God." As soon as one says that "I am God," he's a rascal immediately. God is not so cheap. Caitanya Mahaprabhu never said. He said, "I am the servant of the servant of the servant of servant of God." Gopi-bhartuḥ; pada-kamalayor dasa-dasa-dasanudasaḥ; [Cc. Madhya 13.80]. Hundred times down. And that is real identification. And as soon as a person says, "I am God," then he's a madman. He's part of God. That is all right. But not the Supreme God.

Indian man (4): Can we find the one in ourself? Can we find the one in the basis of ourself?

Prabhupada: Hm?

Indian man (4): The one in the basis of ourself?

Tamala Krsna: He says, "Can we find the one in ourselves?

Prabhupada: Yes. The Self is there. Isvaraḥ; sarva-bhutanam hrd-dese 'rjuna tisṭhati [Bg. 18.61]. That one Lord is there within your heart. Where is the difficulty? That is stated in the Bhagavad-gita. Isvaraḥ; sarva-bhutanam [Bg. 18.61]. All living entities—not only you, me-cats, dogs, everyone, even ants... Anḍantara-stha-paramanu-cayantara-stham. He is within the atom also. So there is no denying, He is everywhere.

eko 'py asau racayitum jagad-anḍa-koṭim
yac-chaktir asti jagad-anḍa-caya yad-antaḥ;
anḍantara-stha-paramanu-cayantara-stham
govindam adi-purusam tam aham bhajami
[Bs. 5.35]

So Isvara, this, the Supreme, is living with you as Supersoul. So there is no doubt about it. You are also within the body, and He is also within the body. Find out this verse, ksetra-jñam capi mam viddhi sarva-ksetresu bharata, ksetra-ksetrajñayor jñanam [Bg. 13.3]. You are individual soul, and He is also living as individual soul, but sarva-ksetresu bharata: He is living everywhere; you are living within your body. That is the difference.

Indian man (4): Then one can realize the omnipresence of the one.

Tamala Krsna: "How can we realize the omnipresence?"

Prabhupada: You have to realize from authorized scripture, not whimsically. Just like this boy asked, "God, Christ said like that," without any authority. Without reading, without understanding, he says like that. So you have to take from authority. Without authorized statement don't say anything. It is foolish. Sabda-pramanam. Just like a good lawyer in the court. When he says something, immediately he quotes the law, "Section number such, laws number such," and that is authorized, not that whimsically if he says. That is not the process. You have found out? Ksetra-jñam capi mam viddhi sarva-ksetresu... Thirteenth Chapter.

Tamala Krsna: Ah.

ksetra-jñam capi mam viddhi
sarva-ksetresu bharata
ksetra-ksetrajñayor jñanam
yat taj jñanam matam mama
[Bg. 13.3]

Prabhupada: And before that?

Tamala Krsna: Ksetram ity abhidhiyate... Oh.

Prabhupada: Idam sariram kaunteya [Bg. 13.2].

Tamala Krsna:

idam sariram kaunteya
ksetram ity abhidhiyate
etad yo vetti tam prahuḥ;
ksetra-jña iti tad-vidaḥ;
[Bg. 13.2]

"Arjuna said, O my dear Krsna, I wish to know about prakrti, purusa, and the field and the knower of the field, and of knowledge and the end of knowledge. The Blessed Lord then said, This body, O son of Kunti, is called the field, and one who knows this body is called the knower of the field."

Prabhupada: Just like every one of us. I know, you know, that "This is my body. This is my finger. This is my leg." So the body is called ksetra. We have been allotted a ksetra. Just like the government distributes the land to a certain person, that "This is your land. You till it and grow your food," thirty bighas or something like that. This body is like that. Isvaraḥ; sarva-bhutanam hrd-dese arjuna tisṭhati [Bg. 18.61]. He is there within the body, and He is giving us this ksetra. Bhramayan sarva-bhutani yantraruḍhani mayaya [Bg. 18.61]. So I have got this body. You have got that body. The dog has got body. The cat has got body. So He's everywhere. So according to his karma or desire, he gets a body. Isvaraḥ; sarva-bhutanam [Bg. 18.61]. And he works. Therefore the body is the ksetra, the field, and the individual soul is the worker. So he is working and getting the fruitive result, but at the same time, God is also with him. But He is everywhere. I am not everywhere. I am one individual. Do you understand? And that is the difference between God and me. I cannot say what you are now thinking now, or you cannot say what I am thinking, but God knows what you are thinking and what I am thinking, what he is thinking. That is the difference. That is explained. Ksetra-jñam capi mam. He is also within body, but that is the difference between Him and you. You are limited within your body, and He is unlimited. He is everywhere. So how you can become God? Therefore one who says, "I am God," he's a fool. You cannot say what I am thinking now or what I am suffering. You cannot prove. But He can feel your suffering and feeling, and that is the difference. Here it is clearly said, ksetra-jñam ca. Ca means also. Also means "I am there." Not one. Two. Ksetra-jñam ca api mam viddhi. So God knows what I want, and according to my desire, He is giving me certain type of body, not directly, but through His energy, material nature. Bhramayan sarva-bhutani yantraruḍhani mayaya [Bg. 18.61]. He has got so many agents. Parasya saktir vividhaiva sruyate [Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport]. So this material nature is also one of the agents. And He knows what I desire. He's very friendly, that "This living entity wants this, so give him a body like this." So we get a body. Tatha dehantara-praptir dhiras tatra na muhyati [Bg. 2.13]. So we have to change the body according to our desire. If we want to go to the higher planetary system, we can go. God will give us the facility. If you want to go to the lower planetary system, He'll give you. And if you want to go to Him, He'll give you. What is that verse? Yanti deva-vrata devan pitṝn yanti pitr-vrataḥ;... [Bg. 9.25].

Tamala Krsna: Bhutani yanti bhutejya...

Prabhupada: Bhutejya mad-yajino 'pi yanti mam. If you want to go the devas, you can go. If you want to remain here, you can remain here. If you want to go back to home, back to Godhead, you can go. All facilities are there. But don't lunatically say that "I am God. I am everything." Don't put. Jiva is part and parcel of God, but part and parcel means the same quality but not the same person. This finger is part and parcel of my body. If you cut this finger you will find the same blood. And if you cut here, the same blood. But the finger is not the whole body. The finger is finger; your body is body. The quality is the same. So if you thoroughly study the nature of the living being, you can have at least idea of what is God. Janmady asya yataḥ; [SB 1.1.1]. The Vedanta-sutra says. Whatever desires I have got, wherefrom these desires come? It comes from God because I am part and parcel of God. So the janmady asya yataḥ; [SB 1.1.1]. I am born a person, so God must be a person. That is natural. A person is born from a person. [break] Why this obstinacy? Say me.

Tamala Krsna: What is your reply? Prabhupada wants you to reply to him.

English man: Reply to him.

Prabhupada: You are searching after that one who has become many.

German man (1): I don't say. I don't say. All prophet is one?

Prabhupada: You said that you are searching after that one.

German man (1): I thought...?

Prabhupada: Yes.

German man (1): No.

Prabhupada: You told me. You did not?

Tamala Krsna: You stated you were searching or looking for the one in many.

German man (1): Accha. Yes, I looked the one in many. Yes, I saw it, the one in many.

Tamala Krsna: You saw.

German man (1): If I see, I'll be able to see the one...

Prabhupada: Yes.

German man (1): ...in many. Not to thought, but to see. I said to see.

Prabhupada: Here you can see. Why don't you see Krsna?

German man (1): Eh?

Prabhupada: Why don't you see Krsna?

German man (1): But I see Him. That's all.

Prabhupada: Then that is the one. You are looking after that one. So that He is. That is explained. Aham sarvasya prabhavaḥ; [Bg. 10.8].

German man (1): Sometimes I feel as Arjuna.

Prabhupada: No, you feel. That is another thing. You can feel so many things. That is not authorized. But if you are searching after that one, here is the one. That is accepted by the all authorities and acaryas. And He showed His visva-rupa, viraḍ-rupa, that everything is there. Practically Arjuna was shown the viraḍ-rupa. So why don't you accept Him? What is your objection?

German man (1): I have no objection.

Prabhupada: Then why don't you accept?

Tamala Krsna: Then why don't you accept?

German man (1): I accept. Right when I got into Gita, I start to read it and I start to follow, I tried to follow.

Prabhupada: That's nice.

German man (1): I had to do.

Prabhupada: Then it is all right.

German man (1): I have no (indistinct).

Prabhupada: So we are preaching that "Here is God, Krsna." Our preaching is simple. Krsna says, "I am the Supreme." We say, "Krsna is the Supreme." That's all. We repeat. We don't manufacture. What is the use of manufacturing? I am imperfect. Whatever I manufacture, that is imperfect. So better to repeat the words of the perfect. That is Caitanya Mahaprabhu's mission. He said, "Every one of you become guru and deliver your surrounding persons, either you are in family or in neighborhood or in society or in nation, as much as you can." Amara ajñaya guru haña tara' ei desa [Cc. Madhya 7.128]. So whatever limited circle, you just become guru and deliver them. Deliver means deliver from the ignorance. Everyone is in ignorance, dehatma-buddhiḥ;. Yasyatma-buddhiḥ; kunape tri-dhatuke, sa eva go-kharaḥ; [SB 10.84.13]. So we have to teach them that "You are not this body. You are pure soul. Your business is different." And that is enlightenment. That is the business of guru. So we can do that business. And how to do it? That is... Caitanya Mahaprabhu says, yare dekha tare kaha krsna-upadesa [Cc. Madhya 7.128]. You haven't got to manufacture anything. What Krsna has already said, you repeat. Finish. Don't make addition, alteration. Then you become guru. Very simple thing. If I say that "My father said, 'This is a bell,' " I am correct because I have learned it from my father, authority. I may be fool, rascal. It doesn't matter. But because I have learned it from the authority and presenting it that "This is a bell," this is perfect. Similarly, I cannot become guru because I am imperfect. My senses are imperfect. I cannot see even what is beyond this wall, although I am very much proud of my eyes. I want to see. What you can see? Imperfect, all senses. But if some authority says that "Beyond this wall this is the..., like this," it is all right. So we have to follow this path, that you become guru, deliver your neighborhood men, associates, but speak the authoritative words of Krsna. Then it will act. So our, this Krsna consciousness movement is like that. We do not manufacture ideas. That has spoiled the whole world. Just like you said about Christ. That he never said "Supreme Lord." He said, "I am son of God. I have brought message of Him." Similarly, our position is that "We have got a message from Krsna. Take it." So we have no difficulty. Anyone can say. If you study Bhagavad-gita nicely, assimilate and repeat it, it will act. Krsna says, man-mana bhava mad-bhakto mad-yaji mam namaskuru [Bg. 18.65]. We are teaching that "You always think of Krsna. You become a devotee. You worship Him and offer your obeisances." It doesn't require that you become very learned scholar. Anyone can do. A child can do. That's it. We are teaching. Where is the difficulty? Hm? Is there any difficulty? Why don't you do that? Why you are making so big, big program without any effect? Take the simple thing, program, and preach everywhere. That is being done. We are preaching this philosophy all over the world, and they are accepting. You know that. In Europe, America, Australia, in everywhere, in all parts of the world they are preaching. Even the Africans, they are chanting name. So if I have manufactured some theory and with a limited circle I am satisfied, that is good? Or Krsna's program, Caitanya Mahaprabhu's program, it is being accepted all over the world—that is good or this is good? Which one is good? So everyone is manufacturing some concoction, and he's satisfied with few followers. But we have got Krsna's program, and it is being followed all over the world. So which one is good, with some limited circle or all over the world? That is the proof that we have enough (indistinct). (remainder of recording too faint to transcribe) (end)