Tamala Krsna: Srila Prabhupada? I was thinking to, if I had some free time, that I could work on writing some essay about nationalism.

Prabhupada: Why?

Tamala Krsna: Well, you've been mentioning so many times about how foolish the..., so many people are. Under the banner of nationalism they are basing their whole life.

Prabhupada: But they'll not hear. If you forbid the dogs, "Don't bark," it is like that. Why waste time? He'll go on with all politics. Negative, as soon as you say, they'll neglect.

Tamala Krsna: Is there some subject matter...?

Prabhupada: It requires training.

Tamala Krsna: Is there some subject matter...?

Prabhupada: Just like so much training we are giving; still, there is falldown. So simply by saying...

Tamala Krsna: So you had... There was a newspaper article about a few weeks ago, and you had said that something could be written on this subject. That's the only reason I...

Prabhupada: (Bengali) Hm.

Bhakti-caru: (Bengali)

Tamala Krsna: Is there any subject that would be good to write on?

Prabhupada: Oh, we have got so many subjects, positive. Read our books and present it in a different way. You can write intelligently. That's not bad. Just to induce them...

Tamala Krsna: No, I...

Prabhupada: But they will not hear.

Tamala Krsna: Yeah, right.

Prabhupada: Just see. This man did not even reply even.

Tamala Krsna: Should I call him now?

Prabhupada: No, what is use?

Tamala Krsna: No, he... I mean, he's not interested. That's fact. Even if I call him on the telephone, I can insult him, but that's about all. So what's the purpose?

Prabhupada: To make another enemy. Just see. Even Shriman Narayan and other, I repeatedly indirectly said that Gandhi made a great mistake. So who hears me?

Tamala Krsna: No. If he was to hear that, it means his whole..., he himself has to admit that half of his life he's spoiled, 'cause he's been following Gandhi, praising Gandhi his whole lifetime. They are afraid to admit...

Prabhupada: Andha yathandhair upaniyamanaḥ; [SB 7.5.31]. They remain blind, yes. They like to remain blind. Their leaders are blind, and the followers want to remain blind. This is maya. Unless there is training... This is instruction, adau gurvasrayam. If he doesn't understand the aim of life... It is meant for the most fortunate. Ei rupe brahmanḍa bhram..., kona bhagyavan jiva. Manusyanam sahasresu [Bg. 7.3]. But still, as far as possible, we shall take opportunity to try to convince him. Just see. This man is with us for the last six months. He is not ready to sacrifice his hair.

Tamala Krsna: Some dead stool.

Prabhupada: Eh?

Tamala Krsna: Some lump of stool on the head. Even that, he won't give up.

Prabhupada: No, what is the value of this hair? But it cannot be... He has got some conviction, "I am not ready still for give up this hair." Did he not say like that? What he'll do? He'll be forced to give up his hair and the body on which it has grown. Still, he'll not do. Obstinate dogs. This is their position. They are not human being. Muḍha, naradhama, mayayapahrta-jñana. These are the terms. They apply. One thing I... Take your note. You can write one letter which will be presented to Shriman Narayan when Gopala Krsna goes.

Tamala Krsna: I'll take dictation. I'll get my pad. [break]

Prabhupada: Not only here, but in your country they are giving trouble in different way.

Tamala Krsna: Oh, yeah, definitely are.

Prabhupada: Whole world. In one place in one way, in another place in another way. Simply harassment.

Tamala Krsna: This is the planet where one is first...

Prabhupada: Duḥ;khalayam. Still, they are trying to..., the heaven here. This is muḍha. He'll never become happy; he'll try and try again and again. Punaḥ; punas carvita-carvananam: [SB 7.5.30] again and again trying for the same purpose, which will never be fulfilled.

Tamala Krsna: Very foolish. Somehow, though, it seems that if we remain true to everything you've taught and remain true to Bhagavad-gita and to Krsna, that somehow we can counteract the entire world of atheists. Seems possible.

Prabhupada: Hm?

Tamala Krsna: This movement is so powerful, this message is so pure, that it seems that no matter how big the opposition is, still, it can conquer. We can be victorious. Arjuna was victorious. There's a wonderful statement in the beginning... You make this... It's stated in the Tenth Canto. Pariksit Maharaja is appreciating Arjuna, and he's saying, "How, how could he defeat such gigantic...?" He's comparing to the ocean the battlefield. He says, "Bhisma, such a big fish..."

Prabhupada: Timingila.

Tamala Krsna: Yeah.

Prabhupada: In the ocean there are fishes. You cannot see them. Big fishes: (makes gulping sound). From the skeleton I saw in Calcutta Museum...

Tamala Krsna: Whale skeleton?

Prabhupada: Hm?

Tamala Krsna: Whales.

Prabhupada: Whale or some fish skeleton. As big as this room, it was hanging. I think it is there.

Tamala Krsna: Yeah, in the Museum of Natural History in New York they have a whale that is at least twice the length of this room.

Prabhupada: Just see.

Tamala Krsna: And the height is at least three times the height of this room.

Prabhupada: So they can swallow, big, big fish. There is immense space in the sea.

Tamala Krsna: Actually the one in the Museum of Natural History in New York, they didn't even leave the skeleton. They recreated the body so it looks just real. We went with Bharadvaja and Ramesvara and myself for studying for the doll project. We were looking at how they made everything very authentic. It's amazing. They even have underwater scenes. Of course, there's no water, but it appears to be underwater by the way they make the diorama. So this evening in the... They'll be coming in to see you, the managers.

Prabhupada: So let them begin the foundation.

Tamala Krsna: Gurukula.

Prabhupada: Hm. Let it go on slowly, but it must begin.

Tamala Krsna: Yeah. What is the idea there?

Prabhupada: Hm?

Tamala Krsna: I mean, what is the idea in "Even if it goes slowly, it must begin"?

Prabhupada: No, if there is no money, it can go slowly.

Tamala Krsna: But at least the work should be there.

Prabhupada: Hm.

Tamala Krsna: Something should be seen to be going on.

Prabhupada: Somebody has promised there. So as you get help, you go on. But it must be begun.

Tamala Krsna: So tonight we can discuss it. [break]

Prabhupada: ...the mess. He has paid only one hundred rupees from his pocket, and he's everything, and he has squandered so much.

Tamala Krsna: Who?

Prabhupada: The Sanjay Gandhi.

Tamala Krsna: That, I haven't read that yet. Is he going to be put in prison for...?

Prabhupada: I think so.

Tamala Krsna: What about her?

Prabhupada: Hm?

Tamala Krsna: What about his mother?

Prabhupada: Well, mother, personally what did she do, I do not know.

Tamala Krsna: Today there's a little swelling in your... It seems to come and go.

Prabhupada: Hm?

Tamala Krsna: It seems to come and go. Is it bothering you?

Prabhupada: Hm?

Tamala Krsna: Is it disturbing?

Prabhupada: Yes.

Tamala Krsna: Really?

Prabhupada: From last night things have gone bad.

Tamala Krsna: What in particular, Srila Prabhupada?

Prabhupada: There is spasm in the heart.

Tamala Krsna: On the heart. Still?

Prabhupada: Hm. If I lie down straight... Lie down means spasm.

Tamala Krsna: If you lie down, then it's staying. And if you sit up?

Prabhupada: Sit up, not so painful.

Tamala Krsna: Maybe some gentle massaging on the heart would be good.

Prabhupada: Yes. Morning he gave me a little massage. So there was little relief.

Tamala Krsna: Gave you massage on the chest?

Prabhupada: No, no, head, here...

Tamala Krsna: I remember, in Los Angeles a long time ago you were having some pain in the heart. At that time we massaged your heart gently and you felt relief.

Upendra: Some workmen have come.

Prabhupada: Hm?

Upendra: Some workmen and one devotee have come to do something to the drain.

Prabhupada: Repair. That is their daily business.

Tamala Krsna: It's an excuse for darsana, I think. (Prabhupada chuckles)

Upendra: I think they have to drain something, some drain pipes. They're letting water out.

Tamala Krsna: So that massaging, I remember...

Prabhupada: Hm. Yes. [break] ...or (indistinct).

Tamala Krsna: A little difficult. Difficult. Risky.

Prabhupada: Risky.

Tamala Krsna: Under the circumstances... Oh.

Upendra: (indistinct)

Tamala Krsna: (to Upendra:) Yeah, I'll be back. Tell him it'll be ready tomorrow.

Prabhupada: What is the...? [break] ...already a artificial kidney.

Tamala Krsna: Yes, Prabhupada. For two years.

Prabhupada: So it is not working.

Tamala Krsna: Not sufficiently, no. How can it work? How can an artificial kidney be expected to work like a real kidney? I mean, they want to hold back time.

Prabhupada: Hm?

Tamala Krsna: They think that they can defeat the time...

Prabhupada: Nature. Nature's way.

Tamala Krsna: Yeah. Time factor. They cannot defeat the time factor. They want to make an old man a young man, without spiritual qualities. Only Krsna can do that. What a rascal! I saw on the front page... There was one Muslim leader. He died. But he's being lauded as a great humanitarian welfare worker. And he gave one statement. He ended, "I have been an atheist, and I will die an atheist." He said, "Burn my body. Do not let it be at any ceremony. No plaque, nothing." He was against the Muslim making the women keep their heads covered, and it said he was a great worker for humanitarian rights. (Prabhupada chuckles) Just like they praised that Dr. Ambhetkar for burning the Manu-smrti. Manu-samhita was burned, and he's praised, "A great man." It is coming to the time now when if a man is God conscious, he's considered the enemy of the people, and if he's an atheist, then he's praised for being humanitarian. Therefore they don't recognize you, Srila Prabhupada. They should be giving you all awards and praise. But actually they don't. Of course, we don't care for their awards. And the real intelligentsia, the professors, they're giving all praise. But anyway, there's no doubt they should be giving you Nobel Prize. So many prizes should be coming. But because they're demons, they don't give these awards, purposely. (end)