Ramesvara: And Srila Prabhupada said "Now you can go," otherwise he would not leave.

Prabhupada: And take some prasadam.

Tamala Krsna: His father and mother are also very nice here. They are doing great service, both of them working in the restaurant.

Prabhupada: So many children are coming, very fortunate children, from the beginning Krsna conscious. We had the chance of taking birth from such father and mother. So all these children should be taken care of very nicely. Oh, yes. They'll be asset for our movement.

Tamala Krsna: Future hope.

Prabhupada: Oh, yes. Therefore I wanted to organize the Gurukula very nicely. We have no objection. Let them produce hundreds of children.

Tamala Krsna: You said that your Guru Maharaja said...

Prabhupada: "If I could produce Krsna conscious children, I am prepared to produce hundreds of children." What is the use of producing children like cats and dogs? Produce children like Prahlada Maharaja. The whole world will be benefited. Ekas candras tamo hanti na ca. [break] Progeny, that is not condemned. Why it should be condemned? Let there be pregnancy, but Krsna conscious. That, our Pradyumna's son, these, all children.

Tamala Krsna: Aniruddha.

Prabhupada: Very nice. They should be trained up properly. Special care should be taken. That is the idea of my Guru Maharaja, a Gurukula. Gurukula, we are not going to make some big, big scholars. We don't require scholars. We require ideal men by character, by behavior, by Krsna consciousness. Not by studying grammar. There are many grammarians. Let them study our books nicely, English, little Sanskrit, that's all. Gurukula organize like that. We don't want big, big scholars. Unnecessarily. There are so many scholars in the universities, drinking and woman-hunting, that's all. In the universities, I know, to get the degree, pass the examination, the girls have to adopt prostitution with the teachers, I know that.

Tamala Krsna: Wow. In India?

Ramesvara: Especially in America.

Pusá¹­a Krsna: In America.

Prabhupada: That to pass the examination by prostitution. Whatever nonsense they may write, that's all right. This is Central Park still?

Tamala Krsna: Yes, Central Park West, it's called.

Prabhupada: This is not education. Everything is killing. Therefore we are supposed to deal with all madmen. They are thinking that they are constructing such big, big buildings, they are the most exalted persons, but we take them as mad.

pisaci paile yena mati-cchanna haya
maya-grasta jivera haya se bhava udaya

Ghostly haunted. A person ghostly haunted, as he does, acts, similarly, anyone who is under the clutches of maya, he acts like this. [break] ...this church, I came. They purchased one set of books. And one lady, Mrs. McGuire I think, she arranged this meeting. Underneath there is subway. I was sitting there and the subway sound was cut-cut cut-cut cut-cut. So I asked what is this and they said subway. Within this building there is subway. I think they are repairing. What is this building? That museum?

Tamala Krsna: This one? It's the Museum of Natural History.

Hari-sauri: Memorial of Theodore Roosevelt.

Pusá¹­a Krsna: This man Theodore Roosevelt, he was one of the presidents. He was a big hunter, he used to kill animals. And in front it says that he was famous for being a natural conservationist, protecting nature.

Prabhupada: By killing.

Tamala Krsna: There's a big planetarium here also at this museum.

Ramesvara: Biggest in the world, I think.

Tamala Krsna: Yes, this planetarium is the most famous one, Heydn Planetarium.

Prabhupada: So see how the planetarium is done.

Tamala Krsna: Yes, we should go, Ramesvara. Have you ever gone?

Ramesvara: Many years ago.

Tamala Krsna: Should we go to see it?

Prabhupada: Hmm?

Pusá¹­a Krsna: They use all kinds of lighting systems.

Prabhupada: So you take the idea. We shall have to do that.

Tamala Krsna: Wow. All right. They have a special projector.

Prabhupada: Whatever it may be, we may take the idea and utilize.

Pusá¹­a Krsna: In our planetarium, Srila Prabhupada, we want to actually show the different qualities of life on the different planetary systems also?

Prabhupada: Yes, as far as possible. There is Siddhaloka, they can go from one planet to another without any machine, without any vehicle. Siddhaloka means, just like the yogis, they can go.

Ramesvara: Their body have..., they have wings?

Prabhupada: No wings. We think only our ideas, that without wings nobody can fly.

Tamala Krsna: That picture wasn't accurate.

Ramesvara: That was Gandharvaloka.

Tamala Krsna: Prabhupada said they don't have wings either.

Ramesvara: I know.

Prabhupada: So you are purchasing this house?

Tamala Krsna: Yes, we thought you like it.

Prabhupada: It is nice house. It is half or...?

Tamala Krsna: No, full. This one is very nice too.

Prabhupada: This is also for sale?

Tamala Krsna: I don't think, but it's very good for the temple, big.

Prabhupada: Purchase the whole property. (out of car)

Hari-sauri: Haribol.

Tamala Krsna: Seems like it's two different buildings. It is two different buildings. It's just the left side, corner building. In fact, the corner building may be a different one also. What, Prabhupada?

Prabhupada: She was speaking "You are threatening my dog"?

Tamala Krsna: Yes, she said "Don't touch my dog." She yelled at us, "Don't touch my dog."

Hari-sauri: He had a muzzle on. See this man here, Srila Prabhupada? He's emptied out all the wastepaper baskets all over the grass, and now he's searching through to see if there's anything of any value.

Prabhupada: What is valuable there?

Tamala Krsna: Someone may have thrown something out which he could use. He's a bum.

Prabhupada: Another madman. In Hong Kong I have seen, they are searching some food.

Hari-sauri: You can see in every big city, mainly older people, they go and look in all the rubbish bins.

Tamala Krsna: Just like they'll find an empty bottle, and if they return the bottle to the shop, they'll get a deposit, ten or fifteen cents for a bottle deposit.

Pusá¹­a Krsna: In Mayapura we've seen the little children coming looking for prasadam left over in the rubbish outside.

Ramesvara: This is one of the big problems in the world today. They don't know how to dispose of all the paper and garbage that they go through. They are selling so many goods, and then they have to throw away the packages. They don't know how to get rid of the garbage. They try to throw it in the ocean sometimes.

Prabhupada: And for manufacturing the paper they are cutting so many trees and committing sinful life.

Ramesvara: The scientists report that by throwing all this garbage in the ocean they kill many fish. Here in New York there is one beach called Coney Island, and no fish can live near the shore, they are all dying.

Prabhupada: Why they are so sympathetic to the fish? Because they will eat it. No? They are thinking that "We shall eat the fish, and they are dying." Is it not?

Hari-sauri: Do you want your hat, Srila Prabhupada?

Prabhupada: Hmm? No. This is ventilation. (laughter) You are feeling cold? Mister? You are feeling cold?

Child: No.

Devotee (1): It's that same lady again.

Adi-kesava: Srila Prabhupada, we went to one other part of the park down there, and we found they have a big statue of a dog there, and it says "In honor of the dogs." Some sled-dogs that came and saved some people in Alaska in 1926, a big statue of a dog.

Tamala Krsna: [break] ...cold.

Prabhupada: He has got some? Children are not affected. Old men are affected. For children, if there is diarrhea, it is good, but old man, if there is diarrhea he is going to die. [break] ...evolution of man, what about the trees?

Bali-mardana: Trees?

Prabhupada: Trees and plants and aquatics and insects.

Radhavallabha: They don't say anything much about trees, but they say aquatics eventually became walking animals.

Bali-mardana: Yes, when the ocean dried up, then they had to develop lungs to breathe. But there is a type of fish that walks. So they say that this fish gradually developed legs and lungs and everything.

Radhavallabha: The fish walks on his fins. They say after millions of years of walking on his fins, gradually the fins became legs.

Bali-mardana: It is African lung-fish. It lives in the mud.

Prabhupada: And they do not speak anything about trees.

Radhavallabha: Not that I've ever seen.

Prabhupada: Hum?

Radhavallabha: I've never seen anything.

Hari-sauri: No, they say the organisms that were originally in the water, and when there was some land formed...

Prabhupada: How is this grass evolving?

Radhavallabha: They say that the wind blows the seeds. Or animals drop them. They also say that flying animals, like birds, came from the sea in one form.

Pusá¹­a Krsna: I heard one island had just appeared sometime back from a volcano underneath the ocean in the middle of the Pacific.

Hari-sauri: There's one near Norway as well.

Pusá¹­a Krsna: The scientists wanted to find out how long it would take before life appeared on this island in the middle of nowhere. So they were thinking it might take thousands of millions and billions of years, because there had been no life there to begin with. But they found that within one year it was full of so much plants, vegetation.

Prabhupada: Just see, how rascal they are.

Tamala Krsna: That should disprove all of their theories.

Prabhupada: They speak all... That the egg will take millions of years and the chicken is bringing within five days. So why these rascals do not transfer their doctorate title to the chicken (laughter) instead of bluffing other rascals that "We are doctorate"? They should be ashamed to keep their doctorate. "Now let us transfer to the chicken; within five days there is life." Huh? What do you think? Am I right or wrong?

Hari-sauri: I am sure you are right.

Prabhupada: The chicken is bringing from the egg life within five days, and they are calculating millions of years. Such rascals are passing as scientists. If chemical is the basis of life, just make some experiment, take the chemical and make a small egg and put into the incubator and bring life. Why they do not, hmm? It will take millions of years, and the chicken is bringing within five days?

Bali-mardana: They say in a few years they will do it.

Prabhupada: Why few years? Rascaldom. Dr. Chicken is doing in five days, so why you enjoy this title? You give up. You be ashamed. You are shameless, therefore you are talking all this nonsense. You have no human sense also.

Bali-mardana: They say that in the laboratory we are working on this, and very soon we will have the answer.

Prabhupada: That means that you are a rascal. You admit that you are a rascal. We see one sparrow bringing within few days, life. So many birds, they are bringing life within few days.

Ramesvara: They say there are certain chemicals in the body.

Prabhupada: All right, you rascal, big chemist, you combine these chemicals and bring life. Why do you not do that? Simply talking millions and trillions of years just to bluff other rascals. You are a rascal and you are bluffing other rascals. That is your business, and getting high salary, that's all.

Pusá¹­a Krsna: Even they can take a dead body, there's no need to manufacture the body, and try and put life back into it.

Prabhupada: Yes, give him some chemicals. So many dead bodies are being wasted. Give some chemical and let them come back in life.

Jayadvaita: They are freezing the bodies sometimes, so that in the future when they perfect that ability, they'll revive these dead bodies and they'll live again.

Prabhupada: [break] ...things are going on.

Ramesvara: [break] ...science called genetics, where they study the chemicals which determine the characteristics of the living entity, whether he has fair skin, or...

Prabhupada: That our Svarupa Damodara has begun with this rascal genetics. He has written that Scientific Basis, beginning with these rascals, genetics.

Ramesvara: Before they can try to create life, they have to master this science of genetics first. This controls whether a living entity has different color eyes and hair and ability to hear and see, everything. So they say when they have mastered that science, then the next step will be to create life.

Prabhupada: That will take millions of years. By that time he'll be finished. (laughter)

Jayadvaita: Sometimes people say that although the body changes, the genes are the same, therefore it's not the soul that continues in the body, but these genes. So they argue that we're this body.

Ramesvara: [break] ...that by genetics they can develop the higher qualities in man, and they can arrange at birth to develop the finest qualities, strength, different talents also, like artistic talents, musical talents, better intelligence, all by chemistry.

Prabhupada: So how much chemical he has devoured for becoming so intelligent? That man who is proposing chemicals, so how much quantity of chemical he has eaten to speak all this nonsense?

Bali-mardana: One of their programs is selective breeding. Only let the so-called intelligent people have children and let all the unintelligent people not have any children.

Tamala Krsna: Then who will clean up the park if they do that?

Radhavallabha: No one does it anyway.

Ramesvara: They are thinking that in the future they can make...

Prabhupada: All future. (dog barking) Future, however pleasant. Post-dated check. Future, millions of years after, you'll get payment, take this check.

Radhavallabha: This dog is after everyone, it attacks everyone that comes by, and the lady gets angry when they try to get the dog away.

Prabhupada: Is there fish here?

Hari-sauri: It's just the water moving, little waves, that's all. This is just a pond for sailing model boats, so I don't think there'd be any fish.

Devotee (1): There's fish in there.

Hari-sauri: Fish?

Devotee (1): Sure.

Pusá¹­a Krsna: The fish eat up the algae, keep it clean.

Prabhupada: Yes. [break] ...skyscraper building, how many stories they can build? Is there any estimation?

Radhavallabha: Over a hundred.

Prabhupada: Now, how many?

Bali-mardana: There is no exact figure; they are always making higher. Now I think a hundred and thirty.

Ramesvara: No, it's more than that.

Bali-mardana: A hundred thirty, a hundred forty.

Prabhupada: And when they'll fall?

Bali-mardana: When the earthquake comes, boom, everything finished.

Hari-sauri: That structure you saw in Toronto, that big tower? That's supposed to be the highest free-standing structure in the world. Over fifteen hundred feet.

Bali-mardana: In Boston there is one big skyscraper, John Hancock Building, and they cannot utilize it because... What is the reason?

Adi-kesava: Every time the wind blows it begins to bend back and forth in the breeze.

Bali-mardana: It swings.

Adi-kesava: It swings back and forth in the breeze, and all the windows fell out. When we were two years ago in Boston, every day we used to hear how more windows had fallen in, so they made it all with wood. So it was a huge skyscraper with wood in the windows instead of glass.

Bali-mardana: Still they are not utilizing it.

Adi-kesava: No, it's still bent, it cracked open.

Bali-mardana: It cost them over sixty, seventy million dollars and they cannot use it.

Adi-kesava: It cracked all the concrete in the sidewalk because it was bending back and forth.

Prabhupada: Which way?

Devotee (1): Left.

Prabhupada: They have no estimation, that "So far we can come, then we'll fall"?

Bali-mardana: It all depends upon the foundation.

Radhavallabha: In New York they can build them so high because the entire island of Manhattan is made out of rock, and there's never any earthquakes.

Bali-mardana: Not yet, anyway.

Jayadvaita: As far as I know, they think that they can make them bigger and bigger without any limit.

Devotee: Four hundred stories [break]

Prabhupada: And fell down later on.

Bali-mardana: There is a story in the Bible how they were trying to build this big building, the Tower of Babel, and then the whole thing... Because they were so proud, God made them all speak different languages so they could not communicate with one another, and the whole project was finished. They were trying to build a huge building.

Radhavallabha: They were actually trying to reach God.

Bali-mardana: Yes. To reach heaven. That is how the Christians, in Christianity, explain that people speak different languages.

Pusá¹­a Krsna: In Japan they never build big buildings because they know the earthquakes will come. They have maybe ten, twelve stories at the most.

Radhavallabha: [break] The big ones in New York, they build in such a way that it's very difficult to evacuate them in case of a fire, and this movie company did a movie of the two buildings burning up. So after that no one would move into them. They were half empty. So the city had to move all of its government offices into the buildings just to fill them. (dog barking) The Russian dogs are the largest dogs in the world.

Bali-mardana: Dogs to hunt wolves. These dogs are used to hunt wolves in Russia. [break]

Prabhupada: (in car) ...sange calo, ei matra bhikha cai. "Chant Hare Krsna and come with us," that's all. We don't want any more. No fees. We don't say, "First of all pay so many dollars." There is no condition. "Simply chant and come here. We shall arrange for your food, we shall arrange for your shelter, everything." Still they will not come. They will go and pay fees and chant nonsense.

Tamala Krsna: Maybe we should charge, then they will become more encouraged.

Prabhupada: No. No.

Pusá¹­a Krsna: Others will be discouraged.

Hari-sauri: The ones who are paying are the ones who want to be cheated.

Prabhupada: Hmm?

Hari-sauri: The ones who are paying are the ones that want to be cheated, and the ones who come here are the ones that are serious.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Ramesvara: You once said that the scientists are the number-one enemy of mankind.

Prabhupada: They are not enemy, but because they are bluffing, "There is no God, everything is science..." That is their foolishness. We are protesting against that.

Ramesvara: People have a lot of faith that the world is making progress through the scientists.

Prabhupada: What progress they have made?

Radhavallabha: Towards destruction.

Prabhupada: Have they stopped death? What is progress? After all, we are going to die.

Tamala Krsna: They have increased the chance of death. They only have increased.

Prabhupada: Even not increase, even it is very comfortable, but you have to die. First of all check this. You have to become old. What you have done in that direction?

Hari-sauri: Killing people quicker so that they don't have to face old age.

Ramesvara: They have bluffed everyone that the life duration has increased.

Tamala Krsna: Yes, they have said that.

Ramesvara: By the improvement in medicine...

Prabhupada: That's right, accepting increase, but it is not that death is stopped. Just like they have made so many medical improvements, but that does not mean that they have stopped disease.

Hari-sauri: Well, they don't claim they can stop death.

Prabhupada: Therefore they are rascals. What is the improvement? If you stop disease, then it is improvement.

Tamala Krsna: They say no one can do that.

Prabhupada: Then you are subordinate. Do not claim all in all because you are scientist. Then you are controlled. You have to accept.

Tamala Krsna: We accept that no one is perfect.

Prabhupada: No, controlled. That is their defect. They are being controlled in every step, still, they think they are free. That is their defect. Prakrteḥ; kriyamanani gunaiḥ; karmani sarvasaḥ; [Bg. 3.27]. They are fully controlled by the laws of nature, still the great rascal, he's thinking that he's free.

Tamala Krsna: But gradually, they say, we will learn to control nature.

Prabhupada: That gradual, that will never come, and that is their another foolishness.

Pusá¹­a Krsna: Sometimes they are seeing, though, that by their endeavors they are successful. Just like they may try to cure some disease, and then sometimes they are seeing that they are baffled. This leads them to think they are independent. This is leading them to think that they are independent, that sometimes they are successful.

Prabhupada: No, they try their best, but still they are baffled. That means they admit there is some controller.

Pusá¹­a Krsna: Oh, yes.

Prabhupada: That is intelligent.

Hari-sauri: But because they are all Dr. Frog, they are thinking that things are so far out of their control that no one can control it, that material nature is not controlled by anyone. They are thinking that because they cannot control material nature, then no one can.

Prabhupada: But they are being controlled. They, themselves, being controlled.

Tamala Krsna: By nature.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Tamala Krsna: But they say nature means laws, impersonal laws.

Prabhupada: That's all right, impersonal laws, but you are controlled, rascal. That you admit. Whatever it may be, you rascal, you are controlled.

Ramesvara: They say if everyone joined this Krsna consciousness movement, then no one would have any desire to invent the automobile, the airplane...

Prabhupada: But it is useless waste of time. The sooner they give up all these attempts, they become saner. [break]... it is said it is simply waste of time. Yato ayur vyayaḥ; param. Simply wasting time, valuable life.

Ramesvara: :But the natural instinct is to want to enjoy varieties...

Prabhupada: That is material life. The material life means falsely he's thinking that he'll be happy by material adjustment. That is material life. Falsely he's thinking. He'll never be happy, but they are thinking like that. Bahir-artha-maninaḥ;. Na te viduḥ; svartha-gatim hi visnum durasaya [SB 7.5.31]. Durasaya means this hope will never be fulfilled. That is called durasaya, a hope which is not going to be successful at any time. And throughout the whole history they have tried, the British Empire, the Roman Empire, the Egyptian Empire, so many they tried, but all failed. Napoleon, Hitler, but still they have no eyes to see. From the history you see, everything failed. Napoleon started with some ideal, conquering all over Europe, and at last he had to die drinking horse urine. You know that? It was, later on he was arrested by British, and when he was asking drinking water he was given horse urine. That was his last life.

Hari-sauri: That was when he died? He died then?

Prabhupada: He was so much insulted. Because every European countries were harassed, they had very bad idea about this Napoleon. Unnecessarily expanding the interest of France. "France and Napoleon, one." Now where is that rascal? France is there. This is going on. British Empire means bring money, hook or crook, in London, and you get the title, "lord," "baron," this... This was their policy. "Sir." All hooligans, thieves, rogues, they were made big, big respectable people. A deposit in the government, this lord family means they have to deposit, say, ten million pounds, like that, and the government takes that money as fixed deposit, and the interest the family will maintain the aristocracy. This is the lord's family. Some way or other you deposit ten million pounds and your family becomes lord's family. So people become mad after money, somehow or other bring money. There was no other culture. In order to introduce their Manchester cloth, how they killed the home industry of India, cloth merchant, this weaver... Just like we are trying. It is very long time, this, the handloom. They cut the finger.

Tamala Krsna: The British did that.

Prabhupada: The British did that so that the weavers could not work, just to introduce their Manchester's cloth. So many things they did. It is in the history.

Ramesvara: In America you never hear such history, in school...

Prabhupada: They simply killed the Red Indians, that is the only.

Ramesvara: But in the schools they never tell you these things.

Prabhupada: How they will tell, shameful.

Hari-sauri: In England it was "How we saved India."

Prabhupada: Yes. Now who is saving India?

Ramesvara: They say the "white man's burden." They came to make India civilized.

Hari-sauri: They showed us this...

Prabhupada: Therefore all the sastras, they bring it within Christian era. Before that, India was uncivilized. And if they accept all the Vedic literature, so exalted, then they have to accept Indian civilization. That is their propaganda. Simply propaganda, that's all.

Ramesvara: That's why you say Darwinism was started by the English...

Prabhupada: Yes.

Ramesvara: ...to discredit the Vedic literature.

Tamala Krsna: Wow.

Pusá¹­a Krsna: It's just like a bunch of demons.

Tamala Krsna: It seems like it's such a concerted effort, a conspiracy of all the leaders of the world.

Ramesvara: Greed conspiracy. Leaders, the bankers they say.

Tamala Krsna: That's another deep point. Scientists are pointing to the bankers, each group points to the other, and they all cheat together. Just like we used to do... (indistinct)

Pusá¹­a Krsna: These demons, Srila Prabhupada, all of them are dehatma-buddhi?

Prabhupada: Yes, all they have... (end)