Ramesvara: (in car:) He wanted to come and be here when you see the movie.

Prabhupada: (sings) Sri krsna caitanya prabhu, daya koro more...

Ramesvara: Srila Prabhupada, sometime today the new copies of the second volume of Seventh Canto are coming from the printer today. That's the volume with the section about Lord Nrsimhadeva killing Hiranyakasipu and Prahlada's prayers.

Prabhupada: Ah.

Hrdayananda: Prabhupada was lecturing on that in Mayapura.

Ramesvara: Yes.

Prabhupada: Hmm?

Hrdayananda: In Mayapura you were lecturing on the prayers.

Ramesvara: So that volume is coming today.

Prabhupada: [break]....culture and civilization is being introduced by Krsna consciousness movement for the benefit of the whole human society. The modern civilization is not civilization. Muḍha nabhijanati; mam eva param avyayam. Ninety-nine percent or ninety-nine point nine percent people do not believe in the transmigration of the soul. Is it not?

Ramesvara: In India people believe.

Prabhupada: No, India believes. India have no authority.

Hrdayananda: I think now there is.... People are becoming more interested in this theory. They say theory. I think there is more interest now. I'm talking to common people. They're...

Prabhupada: So if there is next life—they believe—then what they are doing for the next life?

Ramesvara: The Christians only believe in one life, and after that one life you either go to heaven or to hell forever.

Hrdayananda: For that reason people have rejected Christianity, because they cannot explain, for example, why a child, for example, is being killed. He's innocent. But by our philosophy it can be explained. For that, people, intelligent people...

Prabhupada: Christian religion is speculation. All these philosophers, talking on Christian religion, speculating.... No clear idea.

Hari-sauri: These church fathers that we've just done on the philosophy book, they are simply speculating about what was in the original Bible.

Prabhupada: No clear conception, scientific idea. Therefore educated persons, they are not interested. "God, give us daily bread." They will say, "Why we shall go to church for begging bread? We can manufacture it, large quantity." (laughs) Why they should go? Formality: "God, give us our daily bread." "Just open a big factory and eat as much bread as we like. Why should we go to God?" [break] ...Jawaharlal Nehru, he took this view, that "For economic development why should you go to the temple, ask this demigod, that demigod, 'Give me this. Give me this'? Develop industry and get money to enjoy." That is his.... [break]...description of God in Srimad-Bhagavatam begins: janmady asya yato 'nvayad itaratas carthesv abhijñaḥ; sva-raṭ [SB 1.1.1]. This is God, the origin of everything. Who is there who can challenge this explanation, "The origin of everything"? Now, what is that origin? Whether it is matter or sentient? No. Janmady asya yato 'nvayad itaratas ca abhijñaḥ; [SB 1.1.1]. He knows everything. Therefore He's a person. Otherwise, how He can be origin of everything? Anvayad itaratas ca. Suppose I.... If I have manufactured this car, then I know every nook and corner of this car, how I have manufactured. One who has manufactured, he knows how it is working, every minute feature. Even an expert driver, he knows how many parts are there, which part is.... Anvayad itaratas ca arthesu abhijñaḥ;. If he's abhijñaḥ;, if he's completely cognizant of every part of the whole creation, then He has created. (pause) All Santa Monica city?

Hrdayananda: Yes, Srila Prabhupada [break] ...a very clear day.

Prabhupada: Clear? That is not clear. So many clouds.

Hrdayananda: I mean for visibility, for seeing.

Ramesvara: He says you can see the clouds.

Prabhupada: Oh.

Hari-sauri: There's no smog.

Ramesvara: Srila Prabhupada, we were painting one painting for the last volume of Seventh Canto which shows that Krsna is in the heart of all living entities. Now, the question came up whether Krsna.... Since Krsna is inside every atom, are there living entities in every atom? So I said that you had already answered that, that Krsna is never alone, so there must be some living entity within the atom. So then the question was: Is this atom one of the bodies, just like human body, and then gradually that living entity gets a higher body, higher body, or does he always remain inside the atom?

Prabhupada: Body does not develop. He changes body. Why don't you understand this?

Ramesvara: He changes body.

Prabhupada: The motorcar does not develop. I change this motorcar to another.

Ramesvara: But that's the question.

Prabhupada: That is Darwin's theory. Motorcar is not developing to big motorcar. That is nonsense. Motorcar is motorcar, but I can change from this car to that car.

Hari-sauri: Yes, that's what he was wondering, whether the spirit soul leaves the atom to take another higher body.

Prabhupada: Yes, it is always.... Transmigration means going on, simply changing.

Ramesvara: Is that counted as one of the 8,400,000 species? Is the atom counted among the different species?

Prabhupada: Atom is not manifested. May be one of the species, but the total is 8,400,000. What is the difference between the small atom and this body? The same thing, material. It's very small; it is a little bigger. That's all. And similarly, the universe is still bigger. After all, it is matter. [break] ...prakrti. Anḍantara-stha-paramanu-cayantara-stham [Bs. 5.35]. What is this? He's standing on election? [break]

Ramesvara: It is written in the Caitanya-caritamrta that when Lord Caitanya entered this universe, the entire universe was blessed, or benefited. So I'm wondering how Lord Caitanya's movement is going on on other planets other than this planet. Is there some organized sankirtana?

Prabhupada: Yes. How other planetary system is going on, you do not know, but we can guess it is going on like this. Anumana. Pratyaksa anumana. One thing is direct perception, another by guessing. Pratyaksa anumana and sabda and sruti, aitihya. There are so many evidences. Harer nama harer nama [Cc. Adi 17.21]. Sri krsna caitanya prabhu...

Ramesvara: Devotees once told me you said that the demigods like this movement very much so that they're standing in line to take their birth in the Krsna consciousness movement.

Prabhupada: Yes. They like to come here on this planet. Just like you Krsna conscious men, you are very much enthusiastic to go to India. India has no material attraction, but why our men wanted to go to India in spite of so many difficulties? Similarly, in the higher planet, heavenly planet, they are so much engrossed with material happiness that there is no facility. But here there is facility, in this earth, Bhurloka. Bhogaisvarya-prasaktanam tayapahrta-cetasam [Bg. 2.44]. One who is too much attached to material convenience and everything, they have no opportunity for Krsna consciousness. [break]

Ramesvara: Srila Prabhupada, you wrote that we don't have to be concerned that this Krsna consciousness movement will deliver the whole world, because it will fill up again. Even if we can bring everyone back to Godhead, it will just be finished up again with more conditioned souls.

Prabhupada: That means there are so many conditioned souls, one after another, coming. And the conditioned souls are the few of the whole living entities. Just imagine what is the total! (laughs)

Ramesvara: It can't be imagined.

Prabhupada: And majority in the spiritual world, and one fourth, minority, is here in so many innumerable universes.

Ramesvara: There are also many spirit souls in the Brahman effulgence, the spiritual sky.

Prabhupada: Huh?

Ramesvara: The spiritual sky.

Prabhupada: Full of these souls. They have no forms. Just like sun. Sunshine means small illuminating sparks. [break] (out of car:) Flowers, they are good medicine for dysentery. [break]

Hrdayananda: ...surrounded by mountains, but normally the air is so dirty, it's not possible to see them, but today it's so clear.

Prabhupada: [break] ...bluff subject.

Ramesvara: The edge of the cliff, there may be some rockslide.

Hari-sauri: Just like the path used to go there, but it fell through.

Prabhupada: Path may slide? That is a warning?

Hari-sauri: They put that warning there so that no one can sue the city authorities if someone is killed if the cliff falls apart.

Prabhupada: Therefore not many people come here. [break] ...animal kingdom, by nature's arrangement, the couple, one male and one female, is fixed up, fixed up, this one female, one male. But amongst the monkeys, dogs and jackals, there is no fixed up.

Hari-sauri: Anything that comes along.

Prabhupada: Yes. Therefore in the human society, a man and woman not fixed up, they are monkeys, jackals and dogs. By marriage it is fixed up, but if they do not fix up, they are compared with the jackals, dogs and monkeys.

Hari-sauri: Hogs as well?

Prabhupada: Hmm? Hogs, also like.

Pusṭa Krsna: From the material point of view people cannot see the purpose of accepting responsibility.

Prabhupada: I do not follow. What is this?

Pusṭa Krsna: Well, from the spiritual point of view, we know that if we're not responsible, then we have to suffer great consequences according to our actions. From the material point of view, though, people can live an irresponsible life, and they have some earnings. They feel that they can enjoy. What is the need for morality?

Prabhupada: Then what is a responsible life? Hmm?

Pusṭa Krsna: Well, their whole plan is to avoid responsibility.

Prabhupada: That is sinful. As soon as you irresponsible, you are sinful. [break] ...soon as you forget the simple truth that you are servant of God, you are irresponsible. Now your suffering begins. [break] ...krsna-bahirmukha haña bhoga vañcha kare, nikaṭa-stha maya tare japaṭiya dhare (Prema-vivarta). Just like as citizen of your state, you have to abide by the laws of the state. As soon as you disobey, you are irresponsible. That's all. You suffer. Good citizen means who abides by the laws of the state. And as soon as you break it, immediately you are irresponsible and you must be punished.

Pusṭa Krsna: Practically, though, without God consciousness, isn't it that people see that whether they are moral or not moral, they still suffer?

Prabhupada: Yes. This material world is meant for suffering. Duḥ;khalayam asasvatam [Bg. 8.15]. That is the description in the Bhagavad-gita. This is a place for suffering. And that is also temporary. You cannot make adjustment: "Never mind, it is suffering; I shall remain here." No, that also will not be allowed. Duḥ;khalayam asasvatam [Bg. 8.15].

Pusṭa Krsna: In the marriage ceremonies that they have, they make vow before God that "Until death do us part, we will not separate," but so many divorces are there.

Prabhupada: That is suffering.

Ramesvara: If a man can have an affair with many different women, he's considered fortunate. It is his success.

Pusṭa Krsna: He's on the front page of all the magazines.

Hari-sauri: "Bachelor daddy."

Prabhupada: Therefore they want to become gopis. That is the tendency, sahajiya.

Pusṭa Krsna: Like transcendental hippie-life.

Prabhupada: (laughs) Yes.

Pusṭa Krsna: No responsibility.

Prabhupada: Other relationship of Krsna rejected, take, jump over the gopis' relationship. This is the meaning. [break] ...this line? Is it not? So as many lines, that means so many years.

Hari-sauri: [break] ...cut inside the tree, there's circles, and for each circle that means one year. That's what they say, anyway.

Prabhupada: Island separate?

Mahendra: That's an island, Srila Prabhupada, yes. Santa Catalina island. It's a very big tourist resort. We were just discussing how it would be nice to send sankirtana party there for book distribution.

Gopavrndapala: We already do that every weekend.

Pusṭa Krsna: [break] ...problems. It seems there are so many social problems in the world today that by patchwork nothing can, er, can't hope to come of anything good.

Prabhupada: Because they do not know what is the aim of life. [break] ...one center. With center, you can draw so many circles, big or small; they will not overlap. But if you have got different center, it will overlap. Your circle will come upon me; my circle will go upon.... So there is svartha-gatim hi visnum. They do not know the central point is Krsna.

Ramesvara: People sometimes criticize us that if our movement becomes very large and everyone chants Hare Krsna, no one will want to become a doctor or technician, and everything will fall to hell.

Prabhupada: Why don't you say if your movement goes on, there will be no need of that. (laughter)

Kirtiraja: No lawyers.

Prabhupada: No need. Simply chant Hare Krsna. Bas. That's all.

Devotee: No one to run the factories?

Prabhupada: No, no need. These are anarthas, unnecessary things. So in the Bhagavata, anarthopasamam saksad bhakti-yogam adhoksaje [SB 1.7.6]. When there is bhakti-yogam adhoksaje, all these anarthas useless. Anartha-nivrttiḥ; syat. People may not misunderstand that we don't want other things. We want everything, but we want central point, Krsna. [break] (in car:) ...Bharati, with whom you had some talks, he does not speak anymore?

Hrdayananda: We have not heard anything.

Hari-sauri: He tries to cause a disturbance, though, whenever he can. I was told by one of the boys in the Library Party that he's prevented a lot of standing orders being taken by speaking with professors and condemning our movement.

Prabhupada: Oh.

Hari-sauri: He's still creating a disturbance.

Prabhupada: Cancelling standing orders?

Hari-sauri: They've actually taken standing orders and then had them cancelled because of this man.

Ramesvara: Not so much.

Hari-sauri: Not so much, but he's doing it when he can. [break]

Ramesvara: ...surprised that you have written so many books. They cannot understand how you could write so much. They wonder whether you were a great Sanskrit scholar for many years, so they try to guess. They just can't imagine anyone writing so much.

Prabhupada: We are exceeding all material authors except Vyasadeva.

Ramesvara: Vyasadeva.

Prabhupada: One book, seventeen volumes, Caitanya-caritamrta. That is also.... So many, our Godbrothers, attempted. Everyone is...

Hari-sauri: Have any of your Godbrothers translated anything?

Prabhupada: They died half-way finished.

Hari-sauri: Sridhara Maharaja never did anything?

Ramesvara: They wonder where you have made the time to study so much about ancient Indian culture that you could write so much. They cannot understand that. They read.... There is a biography of Your Divine Grace in the Bhagavatam, that mentions different things, and they just can't understand how you could know so much. It is beyond material...

Prabhupada: One young man in Tokyo or some airport, very nice young man. He came. I was sitting. "Swamiji, can I talk with you?" "Yes." So, "I have seen your photograph. Where you have got so much vast knowledge?" (laughs) And I..., "It is not my knowledge; it is Vyasadeva's knowledge." So his first question was, intelligent boy.

Hari-sauri: He'd obviously read fair amounts of your books.

Prabhupada: Yes. Here is a house, four-story?

Hari-sauri: That one's three-story.

Prabhupada: Three? And down, motor garage.

Hari-sauri: Right.

Ramesvara: That is the biggest, but I discussed with Karandhara, and he said they will not give permission for more than two stories. He has already inquired.

Prabhupada: Why?

Ramesvara: They have some crazy reason. They make very strict laws regarding housing. It is a problem everywhere in the United States, so many things you have to comply with. Just like in Dallas there were so many things they wanted us to do for housing. (end)