Prabhupada: Narada Muni was cursed, accepted one curse. And Daksa-raja said that "I curse you that you will stay anywhere." So he said, "Yes, that is very good for me." (laughs) He could curse, counter, but he accepted, "Yes, it is a very good curse. I shall not stay anywhere." "You have spoiled my children to become mendicant, go back to home, back to Godhead. They did not enjoy this material world. You are so heinous," like that. Our students' parents, they are also thinking, "What is this nonsense, no meat-eating, no illicit sex? The enjoyment of life, everything is spoiled. They are becoming sannyasi." So they are cursing me.

Satsvarupa: They say you must have hypnotized us to give this up.

Prabhupada: Dr. Judah, what is that, charmistic?

Brahmananda: Charismic.

Prabhupada: Charismatic.

Brahmananda: Charismatic, yes.

Prabhupada: (laughs) He also said. Yes, they are thinking it is hypnotism. "All young men, their life is for this material enjoyment, and they are giving up everything and chanting Hare Krsna? What is this?"

Brahmananda: In Mayapur there is one astrologer and he...

Prabhupada: Who is that astro...?

Brahmananda: I don't know his name. He lives in..., across, on the other side there, where the bank is.

Prabhupada: Oh, Bamanpukur.

Brahmananda: No, on the other side of the...

Prabhupada: Navadvipa?

Brahmananda: No, on the..., where the railway is.

Prabhupada: Oh, Svarup Gañj.

Brahmananda: Yes, Svarup Gañj. So he likes our movement very much, and he said that, he told one of our devotees that you were the most powerful personality in the world. And he has given very accurate astrology readings to some of our devotees.

Prabhupada: And he was, what he has told about me?

Brahmananda: That you are the most powerful personality in the world.

Prabhupada: If I am representative of Krsna, then I must be the most powerful. Krsna has got..., all omnipotent. (laughs) Most powerful, the most my Godbrothers. That is my credit. They are thinking like that, "This man became most powerful than all of us. (Still laughing) He was a grhastha." They used to say all the grhasthas, paca-grhastha. Paca means decomposed. What Bon Maharaja is doing now?

Satsvarupa: I don't know up to date. I just know a few weeks ago he was in Canada.

Brahmananda: When our devotees go to see a professor after Bon Maharaja has spoken with him, the professors don't want to take our books. They make complaints that our books are too sectarian, they're not scholarly, they're not..., in this way.

Prabhupada: He is making that poison.

Brahmananda: Yeah, he is giving some propaganda.

Satsvarupa: The idea that he is more scholarly and more academic.

Prabhupada: These rascals will not, "Where is your book?"

Satsvarupa: He's just got that one book, and he doesn't have that anymore.

Prabhupada: He has sold all?

Satsvarupa: I think so. I never see it anywhere in any libraries.

Brahmananda: He wanted to send some to America. [break]

Prabhupada: ...by his propaganda, they are talking like that?

Brahmananda: Well, one thing, there was one debate, and he was there, and our men were there too. And he was representing Krsna consciousness.

Prabhupada: Who?

Brahmananda: Swami Bon.

Prabhupada: How?

Satsvarupa: It was an interreligion meeting, and there were representatives from different Christian..., and he was there for Gauḍiya Vaisnavism or Krsna consciousness. But he didn't give any strong argument; he just presented it as if it were another way.

Prabhupada: What is that way?

Satsvarupa: Well, he said, he described it very... About Radha... That Lord Caitanya is Radha-Krsna combined.

Prabhupada: That we say also.

Satsvarupa: Yes, but the boys who were there, they said it wasn't at all the way you speak. He wasn't saying that ours was the best.

Prabhupada: No, ours is the best, neither he is best nor it is as it is.

Satsvarupa: One of our men spoke up and said that, the president of Toronto temple, Uttamasloka, he said, "So far we've just discussed different religions from a relative point of view. Why don't we discuss what is the Absolute Truth?" And they all became... They didn't like that. They said, "We feel defensive when you speak like this."

Brahmananda: And Swami Bon said that "You don't know so much."

Satsvarupa: Yeah, he criticized our Uttamasloka. And then he said, "Gauḍiya Vaisnavas, they don't engage in argumentation and debate." So Uttamasloka said, "Yes, Lord Caitanya argued with Prakasananda."

Prabhupada: Oh, yes, very good.

Satsvarupa: But Swami Bon said, "No, He didn't convert him by argument, He converted him by the effulgence."

Prabhupada: (To Bon:) "But there was argument, rascal." (laughter)

Satsvarupa: And as a result of that...

Prabhupada: He is a rascal, rascal.

Satsvarupa: He told one professor that our devotees in general, they're not tolerant when someone speaks something.

Prabhupada: (To Bon:) "You are also not tolerant. Why you have come here? Because you are envious. You are the most intolerant. You are blaspheming."

Satsvarupa: Yes. He also said that on the altar in Toronto... It's an altar just like in all our temples. He said, "Lord Caitanya should not be there with Radha-Krsna." They have them separated like...

Prabhupada: Why? My Guru Maharaja have so many Mayapur temples, Caitanya Mahaprabhu.

Brahmananda: All the Gauḍiya temples, they all have...

Bhavananda: Yogapiṭha has.

Prabhupada: Everywhere.

Brahmananda: Bombay. [break]

Prabhupada: ...men should be very strong to protest. They must know he has come purposely, purposefully. Of course, he will not be able to do anything. Simply ask him, "You, sir, what you have done for the last forty years? And who asked you to start this institute? And why you were called back by Guru Maharaja?" You ask these things. "And you performed some ceremony for neutralizing your guru-aparadha." He did it. Some astrologer... He admitted that "I have offended my Guru Maharaja. So I am not improving. So can you suggest anything?" He said that "You offer 108 bilva patra to Lord Siva." And he did it for so many...

Brahmananda: Prayascitta, is that called?

Prabhupada: Prayascitta, yes.

Brahmananda: You mention that in your Nectar of Devotion, that if some offense is committed, it's not necessary to perform any rituals but to chant Hare Krsna, and that one will become purified in that way.

Prabhupada: So nobody knows where he is?

Satsvarupa: He was staying sometimes in New York City in a place called the Theological Seminary. He was being put up there.

Prabhupada: Theological Seminary?

Satsvarupa: I've never heard of the place.

Bhavananda: Columbia? New York Theological Seminary

Prabhupada: He might have started. He might have started.

Satsvarupa: And also he felt offended that the Brooklyn temple did not invite him. He said they knew he was there, but they didn't invite him.

Prabhupada: (To Bon:) Why? You could see there. It is a Gauḍiya Vaisnava temple. Temple... I invited him from...

Brahmananda: From Hawaii you wrote a letter. He spoke at several of our temples, Toronto and Ottawa.

Prabhupada: So how did you go there? Did he...?

Satsvarupa: He has some patrons among the professors. I know this one Professor O'Connell, he kept him at his home for some days and did some advertising for him for meetings. And then he has another professor friend in Montreal. So he knows different people. He has contacts. [break]

Prabhupada: ...net result. Has he started anything?

Satsvarupa: No.

Bhavananda: Some trouble. (laughter) [break]

Prabhupada: ...come alone or with somebody else?

Satsvarupa: I think alone. [break]

Brahmananda: ...disciple in Vrndavana, that American boy?

Harikesa: Asina-Krsna.

Brahmananda: Asina-Krsna. He asked him to come also with him to America, but he refused, the disciple refused. He told me that, he said, "You know, sometimes you can't do everything that your guru tells you to do." He said, "It was a little difficult saying no to my guru, but I had to do it."

Prabhupada: His parents sponsored him.

Brahmananda: Yes. From Long Island, Rock of..., Far Rockaway, Jewish area? [break]

Prabhupada: ...did not come? That student?

Brahmananda: I think he was afraid to come and see his parents and come back to America.

Harikesa: He told me in Vrndavana that sometimes Bon Maharaja is "a little too far out." His disciple said this.

Prabhupada: None of his disciples living with him.

Brahmananda: Yeah, he also said that. He said "It is too difficult to live with my guru. I must live apart." [break]

Prabhupada: ...the Christian meeting, where it was?

Satsvarupa: In Toronto, different professors.

Prabhupada: What was the subject?

Satsvarupa: Just world religions with representatives from different religions. Each would speak on their understanding. They asked him what is Krsna consciousness or Gauḍiya Vaisnavism.

Prabhupada: And who asked for the Absolute Truth, that...?

Satsvarupa: Uttamasloka dasa.

Prabhupada: Hmm. So, they avoided.

Satsvarupa: Yes, they asked him... Swami Bon said, "Don't speak."

Prabhupada: Huh?

Satsvarupa: He asked Uttamasloka, "Don't speak. You shouldn't..."

Prabhupada: What right he has got to say like that? It was a meeting. He did not say, "What right you have got to say me?" The president, he was president or what?

Satsvarupa: He's a president.

Prabhupada: No, no, in the meeting...

Satsvarupa: No, Swami Bon was just a guest also.

Prabhupada: So why he can, why he said like, "Don't speak"?

Yadubara: They tried to do that to you, Srila Prabhupada, in Kuruksetra. They did not want you to speak.

Prabhupada: Kuruksetra? No.

Yadubara: They allowed you?

Prabhupada: Oh, yes.

Yadubara: But after some persuasion, I think.

Brahmananda: They wanted Prabhupada to speak at the end.

Prabhupada: Oh. (laughs)

Brahmananda: Because you gave the final word. (laughter)

Prabhupada: Yes. So I gave them these all... What I said?

Brahmananda: So, first you said, sarva-dharman parityajya [Bg. 18.66], "Give up all of this so-called religion."

Prabhupada: Yes. On cheating, I said.

Brahmananda: Yeah. Then you, dharmaḥ; projjhita-kaitavaḥ;, then "It's all this cheating."

Yadubara: But the whole assembly was broken up after your speech.

Brahmananda: Yeah, then after you finished speaking, you got up and left, then the acarya, he was supposed to speak, but then everyone else followed Prabhupada out... (laughter)

Prabhupada: I gave my verdict, "This is all cheating." (laughs) "Then I cannot wait anymore." [break]

Satsvarupa: ...Uttamasloka was telling me was that Swami Bon's talk was very difficult for an ordinary person to understand. He started right out by describing how Radharani is the pleasure potency of Krsna, and it was very difficult... He didn't do any preliminary...

Prabhupada: Jugglery.

Satsvarupa: Yes. Very intellectual description of the psychology. [break]

Prabhupada: ...result of that meeting?

Satsvarupa: No result.

Prabhupada: Simply talking? [break] ...come to take some students to his institution.

Satsvarupa: Something like that.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Satsvarupa: After he speaks, he speaks about his institution.

Prabhupada: Yes. Because the institution is now closed. So he thought that he would bring some student from America. [break] He is also one of the, what is called, trustees of the... So he has said to Bon Maharaja "You better hand it over to Bhaktivedanta Swami. You cannot do it." [break]

Bhavananda: ...is intelligent.

Prabhupada: Yes. He is businessman. Picking up the... [break] ...in Hong Kong, they are picking up some food from this garbage.

Sudama: Yes.

Prabhupada: You have seen it?

Sudama: Yes.

Prabhupada: Picking up food. [break]

Satsvarupa: ...got another report from that national library convention. They have a big sign that the artist has made and it says, "The Bhaktivedanta Book Trust, the World's Largest Publisher and Distributor of Books in the Philosophy, Religion, and Culture of India." Has that on their booth. And many professors and librarians come. They have given out four hundred catalogues. Mostly they don't buy on the spot. They take this catalogue back to their library. And they're from all over the country. From every part of the country they go there.

Prabhupada: So catalogues being distributed.

Satsvarupa: Yes. They're taking them. Then they take them back and check them off. And the librarians are saying, as soon as they see our booth, they say, "Any books on India and yoga and meditation, there's a great demand for them. Many young people want to read about."

Prabhupada: But we have got the largest number of books.

Satsvarupa: Yes.

Prabhupada: No other yoga system.

Satsvarupa: World's largest. [break] ...librarians, they said, "Well, if someone comes in and asks you for a reference book on yoga and meditation, what reference books do you have?" And they admit that there are no encyclopedias or reference books on Indian philosophy. So they're describing that... our men are describing that this Srimad-Bhagavatam is an encyclopedia of all Indian philosophy.

Prabhupada: Yes. Nigama-kalpa-taror galitam phalam idam [SB 1.1.3]. The essence of all Vedic knowledge. [break]

Bhavananda: ...a few days previous Sudama Maharaja and I were in Salt Lake City. We went to the Mormon Church visitor's center. Beautiful presentation. Dioramas, so many dioramas, and a big ramp, circular ramp like we want to have in Mayapur. You walk up into a big diorama of the universe with... Lord Jesus is there. Beautiful presentation. A bogus philosophy, but nice presentation.

Prabhupada: What is the philosophy?

Bhavananda: That when you marry, then you are married eternally. And after you die, you go to heaven and you live with your family, your wife and your children, for ever and ever. That's their philosophy.

Prabhupada: Marry?

Bhavananda: Eternal marriage. And when you die, you go to heaven in the same body that you're in.

Brahmananda: If you don't get married, then you don't go to heaven?

Bhavananda: Everyone gets married. They have a nice policy from the year nineteen to twenty-one every man must serve missionary work all over the world, and then he comes back and is married eternally. [break] And movie theaters, eight movie theaters.

Prabhupada: Oh. [break] ...this way or that way? [break] What is that?

Sudama: Cesspool, underground sewer. It's backing up.

Prabhupada: [break] It's coming out.

Sudama: It's stopped up. They haven't cleaned it evidently, so the water is backing up with stools.

Devotee: [break] In Dvaraka, did Krsna's queens play tennis?

Prabhupada: What is the use of playing tennis? There is mention that Dvaraka they were playing ball on the roof of the palace, the queens. Maybe tennis also there. [break] ...playing this there, on the roof. Kind of exercise for the woman, queens.

Devotee (1): Only for the women?

Prabhupada: Yes. No men.

Devotee (2): Krsna and His friends would play sometimes, catch with fruits in the forest?

Prabhupada: Fruits?

Devotee (3): Bael fruits.

Prabhupada: Yes. They are playing in so many ways.

Devotee (2): [break] ...zoo our men distributed over four hundred pieces of literature inside the zoo. [break] Back to Godhead magazines?

Devotee (4): Yeah.

Prabhupada: Four hundred? Very good. [break] ...books, small books also?

Devotee (4): Just magazines. We don't have any small books now. [break] ...coloring books, too, Prabhupada.

Devotee (5): Many, many children's books here.

Devotee (4): Coloring books.

Prabhupada: [break] Oh, this is zoo. [break] ...one dollar. [break] ...with the leaders of the Mormon?

Devotee (2): We have talked with them before, Srila Prabhupada. A man who just died one or two years ago, he had our Bhagavad-gita As It Is.

Prabhupada: Oh.

Devotee (2): I think they have twelve apostles.

Bhavananda: Yeah, elders.

Devotee (2): And they were also interested in the books. [break]

Brahmananda: ...and the bird is also in India.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Brahmananda: The scientists, they would say, "Somehow or other, the bird or something..."

Prabhupada: "Somehow or other." This is science. "Somehow or other," "maybe," "perhaps." This is their science. [break] ...speculation. The whole Western countries, their all knowledge simply speculation. Nothing definite. [break] ...Professor Dimmock has "Definitive..." What is that translation, or something like?

Harikesa: Definitive.

Prabhupada: Definitive, then translation of Bhagavad-gita, like that. [break]

Devotee (4): Dogs, they are becoming attached to the human being. Are they becoming human beings in their next life?

Prabhupada: Maybe. [break]

Yadubara: ...becoming attached to the dog. So they are becoming dogs in their...

Prabhupada: Yes. Dog is never attached.

Bhavananda: Eat his master.

Prabhupada: That's it.

Yadubara: [break] ...devotees say on sankirtana there's only a dog at home. They knock on the door and there's only a dog.

Prabhupada: Who?

Yadubara: Some of the devotees on sankirtana. There is only a dog at home. They will knock on the door. Everyone is gone except the dog.

Brahmananda: They go from house to house distributing books. They ring the bell and just the dog answers. (laughter)

Yadubara: The dog is living in this big house.

Harikesa: The people are out on the streets.

Brahmananda: [break] ...the dog.

Prabhupada: [break] ...you meet Bon Maharaja, and if he talks again time, say, "You were sent in London for establishing a temple, why you could not do it? You remained there for three, four years. And why you were called back by Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati? What did you do for the three, four years in spite of full support from Gauḍiya Maṭha?" We were sending seven hundred rupees. In those days seven hundred rupees means nowadays seven thousand. He was squandering the money. "Authority, authority, scholarly, how many books you have published from your institution for the last forty years?" He was in London. In the 1930's he came back. Came back means Guru Maharaja called him back. Then he separated from Gauḍiya Maṭha, and he tried to start this institution. Sometimes in the 1945, '47..., not '40, '30. And it is '75, clear forty years. So what books you have published? Authority, scholarly, what books you have published? And how many scholars you have produced? Why it is closed now?

Satsvarupa: He's bluffing.

Prabhupada: He has simply collected money like anything by this bluff. Now people are asking that. Therefore Dalmia said one of the trustees, "You better give it to Bhaktivedanta Swami." They have seen. They have taken money from them. Or for maintaining the institution he regularly gets money from rich men in Calcutta, Bombay, one thousand, two thousand, 1,500, like that.

Satsvarupa: He has given the school some title, "Oriental Institute." It is called the Oriental Institute?

Brahmananda: Institute of Oriental Philosophy.

Prabhupada: Institute of Oriental Philosophy? Yes. And the students are coming to him with knives. That is his popularity. Amongst his own students, he is threatened with knife. And he has to sign something by such threatening. (end)