Brahmananda: City Hall is also there. United Nations has offices in that big building. They study the environment. It's environmental study.

Prabhupada: That is another scheme. For the last thirty, forty years they could not study. "In future, we shall be happy."

Indian: Monday, president, he was addressing that Kaiser(?) affair in the next park. So there was even one helicopter. So they came to throw off flowers on him in the gathering. But suddenly the helicopter fell down there on the train. There was train was going on.

Brahmananda: No, it was a jet plane.

Cyavana(?): It was a jet. Yes, one of the jets fell down.

Brahmananda: They had the air force here. They have four jet planes.

Cyavana: Fighter jets.

Brahmananda: Fighter jets, four of them only. And during the national celebration they fly in procession. So one of them fell down, killing the pilots.

Prahupada: Just see.

Brahmananda: These are very old jets that were supplied by the British. (Prabhupada laughs) They're so proud of their four airplanes. Now they only have three.

Prabhupada: Could not replace the other one.

Brahmananda: I don't know if they've replaced it or not.

Cyavana: That's the British scheme.

Brahmananda: They give them these things to "civilize" them.

Prabhupada: (chanting japa—break) Nice. [break] You have meeting in this park?

Brahmananda: Yes. Just on the other side of the road, the city park.

Cyavana: We used to come here on Sunday with that truck and have meetings in the afternoon.

Brahmananda: Prabhupada came here.

Cyavana: Yes. There was one meeting one Sunday.

Prabhupada: [break]...the name of this park?

Cyavana: It means freedom. When they were able to obtain their freedom from the British rule they made this park and they called it Uhuru Park.

Prabhupada: How they got freedom?

Cyavana: They had to fight.

Prabhupada: Fight?

Cyavana: Yes, they had to fight.

Prabhupada: Regular violence?

Cyavana: Oh, yes. Very violent.

Brahmananda: They would go into the farm... The Europeans owned all the farms. And they would go in vans with these knives and just cut everyone in the farm.

Prabhupada: Oh.

Cyavana: They cut everyone up into small chunks.

Prabhupada: Huh?

Brahmananda: They cut them into pieces.

Cyavana: Into small pieces.

Prabhupada: Accha?

Cyavana: Yes, small chunks.

Prabhupada: Ferocious.

Cyavana: Oh yes, very.

Brahmananda: And it just happened recently, one political opposition leader, he was brought to some place near Nairobi and he was... His genitals were cut off, his eyes were...

Prabhupada: Plucked out.

Cyavana: Then he was shot.

Brahmananda: Then he was shot.

Prabhupada: African?

Brahmananda: There was a big scandal because the police were implicated.

Prabhupada: This parking plan are made by them?

Brahmananda: I don't know.

Cyavana: The park itself?

Prahupada: Yes.

Cyavana: This park? The British. They designed all these parks and roads.

Brahmananda: I know that other park-yesterday or the other day we went—that was done by the British. They've taken plants from all over East Africa.

Prabhupada: All these buildings are constructed by the Britishers.

Cyavana: Some Indian organizations, firms, come also. Big construction companies from India, they are combined.

Brahmananda: Usually, in all of the business concerns here, the top man is British, managing their activity.

Prabhupada: So when they kill such brutally in the farm, the Britisher did not take any step?

Brahmananda: Not very effective steps. They declared a state of emergency, and they brought soldiers here, and they had huge arrests. They had camps just outside of Nairobi, and they were arresting tens of thousands, huge camps. But the tactics that they would use, the Africans, the British soldiers couldn't...

Prabhupada: They brought British soldiers or Indian soldiers?

Brahmananda: I'm not sure.

Prabhupada: British soldiers, so long, how they'll come? They were using Indian soldiers.

Indian: I know that Indian peoples, they helped them to get this freedom. That is the reason they have a little bit respect for the Indians now, this president.

Prabhupada: How Indian people helped them?

Brahmananda: They would give their... These groups of guerillas, the Indians would supply them and use their facilities and their farm houses. And then also, legally, the Indians were able to give, from their experience in India. They were able to make some government, some kind of a freedom government system. They agitated to get representation in the Parliament, and they became... When independence came there were many Indians as M.P.'s here. And even when Kenyatta was put on trial by the British, his chief lawyer was a Britisher, but the second lawyer was an Indian. Also the union movement was... One Indian, he helped organize the...

Indian: I was talking with a judge. He is a Sikh gentleman here. So he told me that "In the freedom we all helped, and I was not a judge at that time. I was ordinary advocate. So I play a nice role to get them freedom, so they appointed me a judge after that." Now he is judge since last fifteen years.

Prabhupada: Oh.

Cyavana: Is that Makhajee?

Indian: No.

Brahmananda: The Indians had the experience of the independence in India to draw on for inspiration and also for their strategies and so on, to guide the Africans.

Prabhupada: And now they are trying to drive away Indians.

Indian: Now they have brought a income tax official all from India here. So the Indian people, they were giving their money to the African and taking money to London and U.K., here and there. So now they have brought out from India. They are very strict. People still take money, but they have more to take than the African. The African people are very poor, and they were giving them so much money and taking money out of it. It is difficult for them.

Prabhupada: Yes. These people can be brought under control by bribing. There is no problem. They have no moral strength, and poor. They will accept bribe. I think by bribing it is still going on. Otherwise how they can stop this bribing? That is not possible.

Cyavana: No. This is their major problem, the immigration authorities. Once the people come here and start to make their exploitation, they cannot get them out. So they make all kinds of artificial regulations. You have to have so much money. You have to have this, and that, your ticket, so many things, to try to stop people from coming here, because once they're here, they just pay their way, and then they get anything they want.

Prabhupada: The simple method that everything belongs to God... The king is the representative of God, and he distributes the land amongst the ksatriyas. Just like knighthood or in Mussulman times, subedat(?), and in Hindu times, the subordinate king. Just like Panḍavas, they were the emperors, and under them there were many hundreds and thousands of kings, states. And everything belongs to God. So why fighting? Take it. It is God's property. We are all sons of God. But there is no culture, Aryan culture. They do not know how to live peacefully and cultivate spiritual culture. They do not know. Na te viduḥ; svartha-gatim hi visnum durasaya ye bahir-artha... [SB 7.5.31]. And durasaya, bad hopes or hopes against hope, they're trying to be happy, bahir-artha, by the external energy, material, most fallen ideas, all foolish theories without any knowledge. Material, that's all. Bahir artha, external energy. Otherwise there is no cause of anxiety or distress. There is enough land. They can produce enough food and live peacefully. They are talking of peace, but they do not know how peace can be achieved. They are hankering after peace, but they do not know how to achieve peace. And that formula is given in the Bhagavad-gita: Accept God as the proprietor; then there will be peace. Something stolen from the proprietor by some thieves, and when they sit down to take their shares, there will be fight. The property is stolen, and they are sharing. Now, one will say, "Oh, I have worked so hard. You are giving me so little share?" And others will say, "No, no, we have worked equally." Somebody, "No..." In this way there will be fight.

Brahmananda: This is going on in the United Nations now.

Prabhupada: It will go because they are all thieves. When the stolen property is to be divided, there will be fight.

Cyavana: Like a band of pirates. They always fight amongst themselves and kill each other.

Prabhupada: That is natural. When they plunder, they are united, and when they share, there will be fight. This is psychology. When plundering others' property they will unite and take the whole thing, and then, when they come for sharing, there will be fight. This is the psychology everywhere. Therefore there are so many parties. Just like in India the... Of course, Congress Party was the predominant to fight with the Britishers. And as soon as they got independence, so many hundred thousand parties grew up: the Congress Party, the RSS party, the Hindu-mazara(?) party, the Muslim League party, this party, this party. And then they began to fight. This is the way. Senayor eva sa ucyate. All these thieves and rascal, rogues... God's property, why you should fight amongst themselves? Property belongs to somebody else. Insanity. Just like this is government park. Anyone can come in. Everyone can equally enjoy. So why not make the whole world as Krsna's park? What is the difficulty? Actually it is the fact. Why do you claim? Now we have come. If you say, "No, this portion belongs to us," and another, "This portion belongs to us," then there will be fight. And if we are Krsna conscious, every one of us, that if they see Krsna's property, so let us enjoy. What is the cause of fighting? The hotels are the centers for all kinds of sinful activity. Huh? Illicit sex, drinking, gambling and meat-eating. No discrimination.

Brahmananda: Near our temple there's a big... It's called the International Casino, and they advertise in the newspaper, and they have little drawings of people engaged in gambling, meat-eating, show girls and intoxication.

Cyavana: Alcohol.

Prabhupada: This is the only means of material enjoyment.

Cyavana: This means they're constantly in fear.

Prahupada: Must be.

Cyavana: They must be fearing.

Prabhupada: Yes. Bodily conception life means misery and fear.

Brahmananda: In Mauritius one of our life members, he's a contractor. He's constructing a hotel that has four floors. On one floor is the gambling casino, one floor is the restaurant, one floor is the cabaret, and one floor is the, also rooms for the women to stay.

Prabhupada: Naturally people are not very much interested in our movement.

Brahmananda: Because these four things that they are supporting, we are against.

Indian: I asked that pilot who was staying in our Bombay, Juhu land.

Prahupada: Ha ha. Mr. Sharma?

Indian: Not Sharma. That pilot. He's a pilot.

Brahmananda: Oh, Acarya.

Prabhupada: Oh, Acarya.

Indian: He was staying in the International Hotel, so I asked him, "Why don't you come and stay with us? Stay there and attend the Arati and take Krsna prasada," but he refused.

Cyavana: But he visited the temple here.

Indian: He visited. He said, "No, hotel is good."

Prabhupada: Once they are accustomed to take these four things, especially meat-eating and drinking, it is not possible to give it up. Very difficult. Without drinking wine or without eating meat, they do not feel refreshed.

Cyavana: They're in such anxiety all throughout the day that at night they cannot sleep unless they have a woman and some meat and some wine. Their minds cannot rest unless they take that.

Prabhupada: When we shall go?

Cyavana: Shall we go now?

Prabhupada: No, I am asking when we shall go.

Brahmananda: At the temple, the Deities are open at seven o'clock. It's now twenty minutes after seven, so they're having arati now. Arati will be finished in just ten minutes.

Prabhupada: So we can go. (end)