Prabhupada: ...humbler than the grass and tolerant more than the tree. Trṇad api sunicena taror api sahiṣṇuna, amanina manadena. We have to give all respect to everyone. Even one has no respect, he should be also offered respect. In this attitude one can make advancement by chanting this Hare Krṣṇa mantra. That is the instruction of Lord Caitanya. (aside:) I was expecting you earlier because I speak in English for them. (speaks in Hindi with Indian man) So one who cannot understand English, they can hear that. (Hindi) Every one is requesting to have a temple here. Some police officers, they are very much appreciating. (Hindi) So Sridhara Swami is very nicely explaining the omnipotency of chanting the holy name. So he says, tasmad idam upapannam iti tatraha etavad iti. If one takes shelter of the transcendental holy name of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, he hasn't got to go through the dharma sastras or abiding by the rules and regulation of different kinds of religious scripture. Etavat. Etavad iti. Simply by surrendering to the holy name. So this is applicable in all ages, but especially in this age because nobody can perform the ritualistic ceremonies of any religious principle. The people are so fallen that they cannot. So this hari-namanukirtanam, it is not that it is manufactured for this age. No. This is potent in all other ages also, but especially it is potent because people in this age, they are unable to execute any religious principles very nicely. Bhagavato guṇanaṁ karmaṇaṁ namnaṁ ca samyak kirtanaṁ iti yat etavata puṁsam agha-nirṇayaya papa-kṣaya-matraya alam upayogo nasti alam-sabdena atra varaṇe. So Sridhara Swami especially stresses on the point, alam, means "It is forbidden. There is no necessity. Simply..." That is the version of Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu. He said, iha haite sarva-siddhi haibe tomara. He also stresses that "Simply by chanting, you will get all perfection." Yata amara-srṅgaḥ;, alaṁ bhuṣaṇa-paryapi sakti-varaṇa-vasakam ity upayoga-bhavam eva ajamilo maha-papa-krd api narayaṇeti vikrsya na tu samyak kirtayitaḥ;. You can hear now.

Yamuna: Yes.

Prabhupada: In Ajamila. There was not pure saṅkirtana. Just like we are advised when chanting the mantra, maha-mantra, to avoid ten kinds of offenses. So Ajamila had no such program. He never meant that he was chanting the holy name of Narayaṇa. This point is being stressed by Sridhara Swami. He simply tried to call his son, whose name was Narayaṇa. That was not practically kirtana, but this very vibration, transcendent vibration, has got so potency that without following the rules and regulations of chanting the holy name, he became immediately released from all sinful reaction. That point is stressed here. Abhavan asucir api niyamana asustha-cittaḥ; (?). Not only he never meant for chanting the holy name, he was not only sinful, but he was practically in coma because he was dying. His all functions of the physical body was stopped, and he could not chant even properly. Still, he became released from all sinful reaction. At the time of death... Why death? Even in our sleeping condition we are out of our own control completely. So Ajamila was diseased and was almost on the verge of death, and he was calling his son only. Practically he had no program, but still, he became released, and what to speak of persons who are regularly chanting Hare Krṣṇa mantra under principles and without any offense? Avrtti-sraddhadi-viṣayas tu papa-vasana-kṣayartham harer guṇanuvadaḥ; khalu sattva-bhavanaḥ; (?). So some way or other, if one is engaged in glorifying the activities...(Hindi) Harer guṇanuvadaṁ khalu sattva-bhavanaḥ;. So even with offense... Because in the beginning everyone chants with offenses... But harer guṇanuvada, the glorification of the Lord is so powerful that simply by chanting constantly... Therefore we stress that so many rounds must be done. So many rounds must be done. That will protect him from contamination of this material world. Sattva-bhavanaḥ;. Sattva-bhavanaḥ; means his pure consciousness will gradually develop. Pure consciousness means Krṣṇa consciousness. Yadu-priya avrtaṁ tarhi daruṣa, daruṣabdi-smaraṇam iti tatraha praya... (etc., to:) ...tvayi noktam (reads long commentary in Sanskrit).

Sridhara Swami is explaining the next verse. Prayeṇa veda tad idaṁ na mahajano 'yaṁ divya-vimohita-matir bata mayayalam trayyaṁ jaḍi-krta-matir madhu-puṣpitayaṁ vaitanike mahati karmaṇi yujyamanaḥ; (?). People, if they are advised, as it, as he is actually advised... The question is why there are so many ritualistic ceremonial scriptures. Why? So the conclusion is that people are very much attached to any gorgeous method. If you perform here in this temple a great sacrifice with hundreds of brahmaṇas and chanting Veda mantras, people will be very much attracted immediately. They'll think, "Oh, something very gorgeous is going on." You see? Why they are so? Vimohita-matir bata mayayalam. Because they are captivated by maya, they cannot understand what is the potency of the holy name. They cannot understand. Therefore sometimes something, very gorgeous ceremony, is advised just to attract them. Trayyaṁ jaḍi-krta-matir madhu-puṣpitayam. Trayyam. Trayyam means Vedas. Veda is called trayi because there are three kinds of different processes: karma-kaṇḍa, jñana-kaṇḍa, and upasana-kaṇḍa. So jaḍi-krta. Just like in India there is a section called Arya-samajis. They are very much attached to performance of these sacrifices. They say that "We do not want anything. We shall simply chant the Vedic mantra." Of course, they cannot do it properly. That is also gone. Simply as a formality, they ignite some fire and hither and thither, some mantra—finished. (laughter) Especially in this age, these sacrifices are not possible. Our... There is a sannyasi leader, many sannyasi leaders, they attract people by this performance of yajña, although in this age yajña is not possible because there is no yajñic brahmaṇa. The mantra... Perhaps you have seen in the Kumbha-mela some government officers were... They are also born in a brahmaṇa family, and they are performing yajña. Actually the brahmaṇas had so much power in those days that simply by mantra, they would ignite fire. The fire was not ignited by matches—by mantra. And the animal... Just like in medical science, in physiology sometimes experiment is made by plying the knife on some animal, similarly, how the yajña was being performed, that was tested by animal sacrifice. Animal sacrifice was not meant for killing one animal and eating. No. That the animal, an old animal, should be put into the yajña fire and he'll come out a young, with a young body, that was the test how Vedic mantras were being chanted powerfully. That was the... Not that animal was to be killed there. No. Superficially it appears that animal is put and he is killed, but when the animal comes out of the yajña, that is the test of yajñic brahmaṇa chanting the Vedic hymns correctly. That was the system. And because there is no such powerful yajñic brahmaṇa at the present moment, therefore all kinds of yajñas are forbidden at the present moment. Kalau tad hari-kirtanat. Krte yad dhyayato viṣṇuṁ tretayaṁ yajato makhaiḥ; [SB 12.3.52]. This is the injunction of the sastra, that in the Satya-yuga, meditation on Viṣṇu... Now they have manufactured meditation in so many ways, but actually meditation means dhyayato viṣṇu. Viṣṇu-murti, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, meditation, focusing the mind on the form of four-handed Viṣṇu, that is yoga.

yaṁ brahma-varuṇendra-rudra(-marutaḥ;) stunvanti divyaiḥ; stavair
vedaiḥ; saṅga-pada-kramopaniṣadair gayanti yaṁ sama-gaḥ;
dhyanavasthita-tad-gatena manasa pasyanti yaṁ yoginaḥ;...
[SB 12.13.1]

Yogina dhyanavasthita yaṁ pasyanti. Yam. Whom? The Supreme Personality of Godhead.

So krte yad dhyayato viṣṇum. Perfection of life was attained in the Satya-yuga... Because in the Satya-yuga there is no disturbance. Every man is perfectly religious and peaceful, and therefore they could concentrate their mind focusing their mind on Viṣṇu. So this dhyana, meditation, was possible in the Satya-yuga. Krte yad dhyayato..., tretayaṁ yajato makhaiḥ;. Then, next stage, next yuga is performance of sacrifices. People, the brahmaṇas, were so powerful that they could give the desired result by performing sacrifices, and there were means of securing the ingredients. Just like tons of ghee is wanted. Where is ghee? It is all dalda. Where you can perform sacrifice? (laughter) Ghee is finished. You cannot secure even the ingredients. There is no qualified brahmaṇa. Therefore yajña is not possible in this age. Krte yad dhyayato viṣṇuṁ tretayam..., dvapare paricaryayam [SB 12.3.52]. And gorgeous temple worship according to the principle was possible perfectly in the Dvapara-yuga. Our, this temple worship, Deity worship, we are following the principles of Deity worship because our acaryas established temple, but main principle is chanting. Therefore, whatever we are doing, we offering prasadam to the Lord, we are having maṅgalarati, the main principle is chanting Hare Krṣṇa mantra. This temple worship, it can be avoided, but we cannot avoid chanting Hare Krṣṇa mantra. As such, we have introduced in several centers that "Begin with Hare Krṣṇa mantra, keeping the picture of Guru-Gauraṅga." If it is not possible to worship the Deity according to the rules and regulation, there is no need of establishing temple. But if there are devotees who can actually keep the temple worship method in right order, then... Otherwise, simple, by chanting, everything is complete. But when there is temple worship, there is automatic purification because we have to rise early in the morning, we have to take bath. This kind of purification help..., is helped by temple worship. But when there is grossest type of people who cannot take to this, simply chanting will do. Hari namanukirtanam. Kalau tad, kali, kalau. Kalau, means this age, that cleanliness is very difficult to maintain. Therefore kalau tad dhari-kirtanat. This is recommended.

So trayyaṁ jaḍi-krta-matiḥ;. By the injunction of the Vedas, people are captivated. "Oh, if I perform this yajña, then next life I'll be elevated to the heavenly planet, Svarga." Svargaloka mem. So madhu-puṣpitayam. That is also stated in the Bhagavad-gita. Veda-vada-rataḥ; partha nanyad astiti vadinaḥ;. Those who are simply after the formulas of the Veda, they cannot understand. The same example. Even at the present moment, because here is temple, people are attracted. If you simply chant, very few people will come. Very few people will come. Therefore both things are recommended. Trayyaṁ jaḍi-krta-matiḥ;. Their mind is so materialistic that they cannot give proper respect or importance to the chanting of the holy name. Trayyaṁ jaḍi-krta-matir madhu-puṣpitayaṁ vaitani ke mahati karmaṇi yujyamanaḥ; (?). They are... Generally, they are attracted for karma-kaṇḍiya vicara. That is explained here. Puspitayaṁ puṣpatanair artha-vadi-mano harayaṁ trayyaṁ jaḍi-krta abhiniviṣṭa matir yasya ata eva mahaty eva karmaṇi agni-stomadau sraddhaya yujyamano narake pravartate. If you do not arrange for this gorgeous system, people are not attracted. Therefore we have to do sometimes to attract people, this gorgeousness. Otherwise, chanting of the Hare Krṣṇa mantra without any offense is sufficient. Therefore our Guru Maharaja introduced both the processes. This arca, arca, this is pañcaratriki-vidhi. According to pañcaratrika system, Narada-pañcaratra, this worship of the Deity is there. And bhagavata-marga, the path of Srimad-Bhagavatam, is simply sravaṇaṁ kirtanam. Out of the nine processes recommended, sravaṇaṁ kirtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ; smaraṇaṁ pada-sevanam [SB 7.5.23], so up to sravaṇaṁ kirtanaṁ smaraṇam, that is Bhagavata-marga. That is the best. And pada-sevanaṁ arcanaṁ vandanaṁ dasyam, that is pañcaratriki-vidhi.

So both the viddhis, both the systems have been introduced. One will help the other. That is the way. Simply Bhagavata-marga... Just like in the Srimad-Bhagavatam, in the beginning, is simply sravaṇam-paraṁ satyaṁ dhimahi; janmady asya [SB 1.1.1]—smaraṇam, simply remembering, memorizing the Supreme Truth. But, of course, the pañcaratrika-vidhi is recommended in the Second Canto. That, another pañcaratrika-vidhi, is worshiping the gigantic form of the Lord. These things are there. But both, combined together, it is very much helpful. Bhagavata-marga. Bhagavata-marga will help the pañcaratrika-marga, or process, and the pañcaratrika process will help Bhagavata process. Both together is helpful. Therefore my Guru Maharaja introduced... You have seen the, what is called? That signia? One side, pañcaratriki-vidhi, one side bhagavata-viddhi. That is... I have seen that Gauḍiya Math emblem. Yes. And, so actually, Bhagavata-marga is very strong. That is sufficient. But without pañcaratrika-vidhi this polluted body, polluted mind of the devotee, cannot be purified. Therefore both the process should be adopted in preaching Krṣṇa consciousness movement. I think it is now... So any questions?

Tamala Krṣṇa: Prabhupada? You said... When you were speaking of bhagavata-vidhi, you said that of the nine devotional methods, it includes... I didn't understand which ones it includes, up to what point.

Prabhupada: Sravaṇam kirtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ; smaraṇam [SB 7.5.23]—this is bhagavata-marga. And arcanaṁ vandanaṁ dasyaṁ sakhyam atma-nivedanam—that is pañcaratrika, arcanam. So out of the nine-nine, eight, seven, six, five—whatever you do, that is sufficient because absolute. Any item, even one item, you can, if you perform perfectly, that is sufficient. But there are nine alternative items. Just like Haridasa Ṭhakura, he simply chanted, sravaṇaṁ kirtanam. He did not establish any Deity, but he got perfection. There were many others. Just like Parikṣit Maharaja. At the last stage of his life he simply concentrated in hearing Srimad-Bhagavatam. Sravaṇam. So if sravaṇa is perfect, that is sufficient. Any one of the nine items, if it is done perfectly, that is sufficient. Parikṣit Maharaja, he did not go to the temple. He sat on the bank of the Ganges, and he was very serious because he knew that "I am going to die within seven days. Let me finish as soon as possible simply hearing of Srimad-Bhagavatam." He was intelligent. Otherwise... Not that simply he was hearing. He was questioning, as you have seen in the Srimad-Bhagavatam. So he was very scholar. It means as the spiritual master, Sukadeva Gosvami, was a great scholar in Sanskrit, the king was also a great scholar. Therefore quickly he was reciting, and he was understanding. And as soon as there was some difficulty, he was immediately questioning.

So both the spiritual master and the disciple, they became perfect simply by sravaṇaṁ kirtanam. This is Bhagavata-marga. Simply by hearing and chanting. The spiritual master chanted, recited Srimad-Bhagavatam, and that is being imitated. Again this karma-kaṇḍiya... This karma-kaṇḍiya vicara, fruitive activities. The smarta brahmaṇas, they have manufactured a way of bhagavata-saptaha. That is a farce only because it is imitation of the process adopted by Parikṣit Maharaja and Sukadeva Gosvami. But they are... These people, at the present moment, they are neither Parikṣit Maharaja nor Sukadeva Gosvami. So how it is possible to finish Srimad-Bhagavatam within seven days? That is not possible. It has become a profession, that gorgeousness. They will make a mañcha(?), they will perform some ceremonies and there is some charitable. The result is that the professional reciter will gather some money and some goods and he will maintain his family. That's all. And these people will say that "I have heard for seven days Srimad-Bhagavatam." Of course, there is some effect, but this is not recommended anywhere in the Srimad-Bhagavatam, that one has to hear Srimad-Bhagavatam within seven days. No. So far we see in the Srimad-Bhagavatam, it is said, nityam bhagavata-sevaya [SB 1.2.18]. People should hear daily, regularly Srimad-Bhagavatam. Why seven days? Regularly. Naṣṭa-prayeṣu abhadreṣu nityaṁ bhagavata-sevaya. Nityam, daily, regularly, if one hears and chants Srimad-Bhagavatam, then naṣṭa-prayeṣu abhadreṣu, then the dirty things within his heart becomes almost cleansed.

Now, just try to understand. By daily hearing... Because we are so much contaminated that it is very difficult to get us freed from the contamination, so nityam, regularly, there should be regularly class, hearing of Srimad-Bhagavatam. Naṣṭa-prayeṣu abhadreṣu.

naṣṭa-prayeṣu abhadreṣu
nityaṁ bhagavata-sevaya
bhagavaty uttama-sloke
bhaktir bhavati naiṣṭiki
[SB 1.2.18]

By the process of cleansing our heart, our devotional temperament becomes fixed up on the Supreme Personality of Godhead who is called Uttama-sloka, who is glorified with first-class, I mean to say, Sanskrit stanzas, uttama-sloka. Just like we pray, we offer prayer to Krṣṇa, govindam adi-puruṣam, cintamaṇi-prakara-sadmasu kalpa-vrkṣa-lakṣavrteṣu surabhir abhipalayantam [Bs. 5.29]. These stanzas are not ordinary. It is very first-class composition, and written by, written or offered by the first living creature, Lord Brahma. Therefore Krṣṇa's name is Uttama-sloka. He is prayed with first-class composition. All the slokas, all the prayers we will find, they are not ordinary Sanskrit composition, as we have seen Bhiṣma's prayer to Krṣṇa, Kunti's prayer to Krṣṇa in the Srimad-Bhagavatam. How philosophically they are elevated; how nicely they are composed. And because Krṣṇa is worshiped, God is worshiped by such kind of language and elevated poetical and rhetorical, all perfect, therefore His another name is Uttama-sloka.

So by studying, by hearing, and chanting, reciting regularly of Srimad-Bhagavatam, nityam... Not that we make a function for seven days, and all the days we do all nonsense. No. Regular habit should be there. Nityaṁ bhagavata-sevaya bhagavaty uttama-sloke bhaktir bhavati naiṣṭiki. The result will be that our devotional service towards the Supreme Personality of Godhead will be fixed up, firmly fixed up. And that firmly fixed up means you are immediately elevated to the platform of sattva-guṇa, goodness. Sattva-guṇa. Tato rajas-tamo-bhavaḥ; [SB 1.2.19], as soon as you are fixed up. The devotional service is so nice. As soon as you are fixed up, the other two qualities... To be fixed up in devotional service. Therefore we offer the brahminical position. One who is... When we see that "This man is chanting Hare Krṣṇa mantra, and his bad habits, contaminated stage, is much improved, naṣṭa prayeṣu..." Prayeṣu means almost he is purified. At that time he is fixed up in devotional service; therefore we offer the brahminical position, sacred thread, because a person who is fixed up in devotional service, he is a brahmaṇa. He is a brahmaṇa. He is no more any other because he has cleansed almost the bad habits and the unclean state of mind. Naṣṭa prayeṣu abhadreṣu. Just see. It is, whatever we are doing, it is all according to the sastra. Not that he has completely become free, but naṣṭa prayeṣu. Praya means almost. Almost he has finished the contamination. Therefore he is fixed up. The first test is whether he is fixed up. As soon as he is fixed up, that means he is fixed up in the brahminical stage.

My Guru Maharaja introduced the sacred ceremony because foolish people, they used to... Vaiṣṇave jati-buddhiḥ;. They used to consider Vaiṣṇava as belonging to some jata, some particular caste. No. Vaiṣṇava is not in the particular caste. As soon as he is fixed up... He may be coming from the papa-yoni, from the most abominable family, but as soon as he is fixed up, immediately he is fixed up in the position of a brahmaṇa because sattva-guṇa... Naṣṭa-prayeṣu abhadreṣu. Naṣṭa. Tato rajas-tamo-bhavaḥ; [SB 1.2.19]. He has no more inclination to be attracted by the activities of tamo-guṇa and rajo-guṇa. They have no more attraction for drinking, no more attraction for meat-eating, therefore no more attraction for smoking, drinking tea. This means that the rajas-tamo-bhavaḥ;, kama-lobha, greediness... We are addicted to all these bad habits due to greediness. There is no other cause. A man will not die if he does not drink. A man will not die if he does not eat meat. He will not die. It is due to our greediness: "I want." And lusty. The illicit sex means lusty. So rajas-tamo-bhavaḥ; means lustiness and greediness. So when one is fixed up in devotional service, then tato rajas-tamo-bhavaḥ; kama-lobhadayas ca ye, ceta etair anaviddha. At that time, when he's fixed up in devotional service, his mind is not disturbed with all this nonsense coming out of the quality of ignorance and passion. Tato rajas-tamo-bhavaḥ; kama-lobhadayas ca ye, ceta etair anaviddha. Anaviddham means it is not attacked by this greediness and lustiness. Sthitaṁ sattve prasidati: "He is immediately in the sattva-guṇa, goodness. Therefore his mind is satisfied." These are the test. Mind is no more disturbance.

And as soon as his mind is in tranquillity, evaṁ prasanna-manaso... [SB 1.2.20], because as soon as one is elevated to the sattva-guṇa platform, he becomes happy in his mental situation. Evaṁ prasanna-manaso. Unless one is situated in tranquillity of his mental position, one cannot understand the science of Krṣṇa. That is not possible. One must become satisfied. That satisfaction comes on the platform of sattva-guṇa, not in the platform of ignorance and passion. People are... They come... Mostly people, they are being conducted by passion and ignorance. Therefore they cannot understand. They say, "Such and such person is greater than Krṣṇa," because they are captivated by ignorance. They do not know and therefore talk so many nonsense. Unless we are freed from the rajas-tamo-bhavaḥ;... They advise, "You can do whatever you like. You can eat whatever you like. Now you are liberated, you can indulge in all kinds of nonsense, but still, you are God. You are Brahman." These things are going on. How they can understand Krṣṇa? It is not possible.

Revatinandana: Srila Prabhupada? If they were more intelligent in previous ages, then why didn't they take to the chanting process? Why did they do it, the more difficult method, if they were more intelligent?

Prabhupada: They do not care. They say, "What is this chanting? Let me perform a big sacrifice." That is explained. Jaḍi-krta-matiḥ;. They are so materialized, they do not understand the importance of chanting. For them, they should be called, "Come on. Here is a big yajña. Bring three hundred pounds of ghee." "Oh, it is something." You see? "It is something." Gorgeousness. They want gorgeousness. And people come to show them gorgeousness to cheat. Because although it is not possible to perform properly yajña, but people are..., want that, so there are many cheaters. They say, "Oh, this yajña, that yajña, that yajña," and people will be attracted. Jaḍi-krta-matiḥ;, materialized. Their brain cannot accommodate that the Hare Krṣṇa, this Krṣṇa name, is Krṣṇa. It is very difficult for them to understand.

Guest: Just you have told by chanting holy name one can attain the sattva-guṇa standard.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Guest: But the many persons such as this, that the so-called vicara, namely they introduce when the karma-kaṇḍa(?) and this is particularly difficult to get in this age. So how can we get these vicara? By chanting holy name within two or three days we don't find that sort of blissful (indistinct) I don't know how, what is this, but I...

Prabhupada: Chanting... Chanting? What is your question?

Haṁsaduta: Right now we have so many preachers, so many other kinds of preachers in India. Then how can they get rid of them just by chanting?

Prabhupada: That is the difficulty. That is the difficulty, but you have got little intelligent associate. Just like if you want to purchase something, once or twice you may be cheated. A third time, you are very intelligent. (chuckles) So even despite being cheated, you should try to find out who is the real preacher. That requires little intelligence.

Guest: But these so-called spiritual preachers are looking at you, and immediately you know they will pounce over you. Where is the guarantee...?

Prabhupada: Yes, there is such possibility. Yes.

Guest: I have discussed yesterday in the market. They were, "You are chanting with this party. What interest you have got?" I explained that "The mass have forgotten Lord Krṣṇa, and we are importing the importance of Krṣṇa from USA."

Prabhupada: Yes, that... Yes. That is the fact. That is the fact.

Guest: Then I told that "Guru Maharaja is Indian, but he has got no place in India. And it is the Western people who are teaching us how to serve Krṣṇa. If I learn something from them, what is wrong with it?"

Prabhupada: Their brain is full with hodgepodge. You see? Brain is full with hodgepodge. They cannot understand clearly. Just see. The other day the boy was speaking that Aurobindo is greater than Krṣṇa. You see? How much misled they are. That is the difficulty in India. The so-called preachers, yogis, they have filled up the brain with so many hodgepodge things that it is difficult for them. These boys in..., they had no such hodgepodge things. They accepted Krṣṇa as He is, and therefore their progress is very quick.

Guest: (indistinct)

Prabhupada: Yes.

Guest: And some people I have told that they are the friends of Krṣṇa...

Prabhupada: Yes. Anyone, not only they. Anyone. Krṣṇa says, sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekaṁ saraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. Anyone who will accept this principle, he will be elevated. That's all. But his brain is filled, "Then why Krṣṇa? Why not Aurobindo? He is greater than Krṣṇa." You see?

Guest: I don't think he is greater than Krṣṇa.

Prabhupada: No.

Guest: He has told only,"Ahaṁ brahmasmi."

Prabhupada: Ahaṁ brahmasmi... Not he says, but his disciple says.

Guest: These things are wrong then. What is wrong with guru?

Prabhupada: And why you did not follow it, that "Why? What we are...?" Just like Caitanya Mahaprabhu. As soon as he was addressed "Krṣṇa," He was doing like this: "Oh, what you are nonsense speaking?" That should be done. He was enjoying: "Yes. I am greater than Krṣṇa. Oh." Because he is leader of the fools, so he is a great fool. Because leader—a great man becomes leader—so he is a fool, so he is a great fool. That's all. Caitanya Mahaprabhu, by His practical... He was Krṣṇa Himself. So as soon as He was addressed that "You are Krṣṇa..." When He went to Vrndavana... The incident is that people saw at night some light in Yamuna dancing. So people thought that "Krṣṇa has again come and He is curbing down the Kaliya." So people gathered. Every night they used to gather on the bank of the Yamuna that "Krṣṇa has again come." So Caitanya Mahaprabhu had one personal assistant, Balabhadra. So he asked permission from Caitanya Mahaprabhu that "Can I go and see Krṣṇa? So many people are going." And Caitanya..., "Don't be foolish. Where is Krṣṇa?" So next morning some people came to see Him, Caitanya Mahaprabhu asked them, "How you have seen Krṣṇa?" Then some intelligent person, "No, no. It was all wrong impression. It was not Krṣṇa. Some fisherman was fishing at night and there was light. The light was dancing like that, and these people took that Krṣṇa is dancing." So actually Krṣṇa was present during that time because Caitanya Mahaprabhu is Krṣṇa. But He never said that "I am Krṣṇa." He never said. When people addressed Him that "You are Krṣṇa..." Sanatana Gosvami some..., tactfully addressed Him, "Krṣṇa." One who directly addressed Him, "Krṣṇa"—immediately He used to close His ears like this: "Viṣṇu, Viṣṇu, Viṣṇu. Why you are speaking like that? Why you are addressing an ordinary man as Krṣṇa?" This is the teaching. And if you say, "Oh, Swamiji Maharaja, you are Krṣṇa," and if I accept that "Oh, yes, I am Krṣṇa," then I am greater fool. You are a fool, I am also fool. Is it not? How one can accept that he is Krṣṇa, he is greater than Krṣṇa? Then he's a greater fool. Andha yathandhair upaniyamanaḥ;: [SB 7.5.31] "One blind man is leading many other blind men." And that is the position. We have got manufactured so many incarnation. Still, there are so many, this mother, that father, this, that, so many. You know prac... Yes. All incarnation. All incarnation, they have congested together and spoiling the brain of the poor people. Every day incarnation. And there are many rascals. He says that "I am Krṣṇa's incarnation, and rasa-lila." You know? Yes. This rascaldom is going on, rasa-lila. And people are so fool that they send their wife and their daughter for performing rasa-lila. Things are going on like that.

You know the Bhaktivinoda Ṭhakura's life? A similar rasa-lila was going on. You know that story? Bhaktivinoda Ṭhakura was magistrate, and one person in Orissa, he declared himself that "I am Viṣṇu," and in the village he was enticing young women and girls to dance at night. And some of them protested, and they lodged complaint to the government that "This person is doing like that." And the government commissioner, he knew that Bhaktivinoda Ṭhakura, Kedaranatha Datta was a very elevated, religious man, and he was magistrate. So the commissioner entrusted the inquiry to Kedaranatha Datta at that time. So Kedaranatha Datta, Bhaktivinoda Ṭhakura, took the matter and went to inquire at that, in the village of Orissa, with some constables in plain dress. So when he went there... He had some yogic power, so immediately he could say, "Oh, your name is Kedarnatha Datta. I know you are very good man, but don't be after me. You will not be happy. And I shall elevate you to become the king of this country. Don't be after me." Now, if anyone... He was Bhaktivinoda Ṭhakura, a strong devotee. If any other person would have been addressed like that, he would be immediately puzzled: "How this man is talking about me, that I am Kedaranatha Datta, I am magistrate and...?" So he would not do anything. But Bhaktivinoda Ṭhakura was so strong, he said, "Yes. Thank you very much, that I shall become king. So why don't you go to Jagannatha Puri and stay there? That is a nice pilgrimage, and you can stay there. Many holy men go there. Why you are in this village?" He wanted to drive him away from that village. "Oh, what is that Jagannatha? That is wood. I am Viṣṇu." As soon as he said, Bhaktivinoda Ṭhakura became fire. "Oh, this rascal is like that." He immediately ordered, "Arrest him. Arrest him." And he showed some fiery spark coming from his jata. So the constables were hesitating to arrest him, but Bhaktivinoda Ṭhakura ordered, "Yes, immediately arrest him. Handcuff." So he took him away, arrested. And as soon as he returned home, all the members of his family were in fever, high degree fever, and Bhaktivinoda Ṭhakura himself was in fever. He made some trick, yogic trick. So his wife began to cry: "Oh, you have arrested one great yogi. He is Viṣṇu, and therefore we are now going to die. We are now..." (laughter) So Bhaktivinoda Ṭhakura: "Yes, you die. All die. Still, what I have done is all right." Then when there is date for appearance in the court, in the court the man was brought, and yogi. You see? And Bhaktivinoda Ṭhakura asked... Bhaktivinoda Ṭhakura was suffering still in fever. Still, he attended the court and asked the constables that "Cut his jata."

Haṁsaduta: What is jata?

Prabhupada: Jata is hair. Hair. Jata. So no barber was available. (laughter) Because they knew that Bhaktivinoda Ṭhakura, after arresting, he is suffering from fever. Whole family is lying down in fever. So nobody came forward to cut his jata. So Bhaktivinoda: "All right, bring one scissor. I shall cut." So he personally cut, and personally cut, and that man became very thin immediately after cutting his jata. He had some power in the jata. And he ordered six months' imprisonment. And in the prison he managed to take some poison and died. So devotees are so strong. They can know what is what. You see? He was not puzzled that "He is Viṣṇu and this..." No. So we should learn from the Bhaktivinoda Ṭhakura's treatment that this jugglery or this so-called power is not, no good for advancement in spiritual life. You have to follow the regulative principles as enjoined in the sastra. Yaḥ; sastra vidhim utsrjya. If you do not follow the injunction of the sastra, then there is no possibility of attaining perfection. Na siddhiṁ savapnoti. So our business is to accept a bona fide spiritual master, being guided by him, to follow the rules and regulations. Then advancement is sure. There is no doubt about it. And if we become hodgepodge and mix with hodgepodge and do hodgepodge, there is no progress. Na siddhim. It is clearly said by Krṣṇa, "There is no question of perfection," na sukham, "neither happiness," na paraṁ gatim, "and what to speak of being promoted to the spiritual world? There is no..." Therefore vaidhi-bhakti, as it is enunciated in the Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu, Nectar of Devotion, by the Gosvamis, we shall try to follow as far as possible. Be sincere and hard-working. Then the success is sure. Not to be bewildered, misled by the so-called avatara, incarnation. You see? The so-called avataras, they are simply rascals. Especially in Bengal, every day there is an avatara. (laughter)

Devotee: The other day I received a postcard that "Some Viṣṇu has appeared in some temple, next to..."

Prabhupada: Just see. So many. Everyone.

Guest: Just ten years ago there was, and he was speaking sometimes, "I am the incarnation. I am Brahman."

Prabhupada: Yes. In Kanpur also one man has been arrested.

Guest: And just one man, he is coming, and thousands of people just near the (indistinct) protested. They are at liberty. They can do. "Why you are protesting?" Then we told, "He is misrepresenting the Vedanta and acaryas. He doesn't accept the Veda-sanctioned authorities, so we don't want him."

Prabhupada: Now state is secular; therefore this is the condition. Formerly the kings and the executive heads were very responsible to protect religion. That is the duty of the king, to protect. Just like Parikṣit Maharaja, when he was on tour. As soon as he saw that one man is trying to kill a cow, immediately he became fire: "Oh, in my kingdom there is killing of cow? Who are you? I shall immediately kill you." You know this? The kings were taking. The kings were so responsible. But here they have declared... The so-called kings, they are themselves debauch, and they do not know what is religion. Therefore, in the Kali-yuga there is no other alternative than to chant peacefully, Hare Krṣṇa, Hare Krṣṇa, Krṣṇa Krṣṇa, Hare Hare... There is no protection. And what does the executive heads, the presidents or secretaries? They simply manipulate some votes, third-class men. Who has written that article?

Devotees: Satsvarupa.

Prabhupada: What he has written? "In this age government is ruled by...?"

Guest: The lowest class.

Prabhupada: "Lowest class of men." He is bold enough to declare like that. One of my, our students, he has written an article in which he has said that "At the present moment, everywhere, the government is ruled by lowest class of men." And he's right in this sense because this is the verdict of the Vedas. Harav abhaktasya kuto mahad guṇa [SB 5.18.12]. Unless one is a devotee of the Personality of Godhead, he cannot have any good qualification. That's a fact. And one who is a devotee, all good qualifications automatically develop. (noise) What is this? Hm?

Guest: He tipped a glass of water.

Prabhupada: So as far as possible, let us follow the footsteps of mahajana-mahajano yena gataḥ; sa panthaḥ; [Cc. Madhya 17.186]—and depend on Krṣṇa and chant Hare Krṣṇa. Everything will be all right. The simple method. Try to follow Caitanya Mahaprabhu's teachings. Chant Hare Krṣṇa mantra and be sincere, and, as far as possible, worship the Deity. Everything is all right. [break] ...camp, the servant's camp was overcrowded, and people would come to our camp.

Guest: The university's there. Intellectuals are...

Prabhupada: Yes. So many judges and high-court retired justice, they also came. And one retired judge, Gaṅgesvarananda, he admitted that "Swamiji, for the first time it is my experience that you are explaining Personality of Godhead so nicely." He was also under the impression God is impersonal. Gaṅgesvarananda, yes. [break] Dr. Rao is not here. Who will speak in Hindi? (Hindi or Bengali