Pradyumna: (leads chanting, etc.)

ato vai kavayo nityaṁ
bhaktiṁ paramaya muda
vasudeve bhagavati
kurvanty atma-prasadanim
[SB 1.2.22]

Prabhupada: (interrupts devotees chanting verse) The word, not "vay", it is vai. (chanting resumes)

Pradyumna: Translation: "Therefore all transcendentalists have been rendering loving service with great delight to Lord Krṣṇa, the Personality of Godhead, from time immemorial because such devotional service is enlivening to the self."

Prabhupada: So "therefore." The word is "therefore." "Therefore" means after concluding something, then we say "therefore." When we talk, when we argue, when we come to the conclusion, then we say "therefore." Or when our argument is strong, then we say "therefore." So this "therefore" means that one is firmly convinced. As it is described in the previous verse, bhidyate hrdaya-granthis chidyante sarva-saṁsayaḥ;. Sarva-saṁsayaḥ;. Saṁsaya means doubtfulness.

Now this morning we were talking with our scientist friend whether the ultimate source of everything... First of all, the conclusion is that everything is, are, relatively situated here. Just like some gentleman, he is son of another gentleman, relative. Then his father is also son of another gentleman. So our... this world is relative depending one thing upon another. Nobody is self-independent. This is going on. Then... So find out the original source of everything, that original source, whether it is sentient or insentient? The conclusion is original source must be sentient. Because in this, our experience, experimental knowledge, we see something matter and something living. I am seeing here is a small ant and here is a big stone. The big stone is insentient. It cannot move. For millions of years you wait, whether the stone will move—you cannot see. No, it will not move. Because it is insentient. Whereas a small ant, it is going. You just check its marching. It will struggle. It will struggle this way, this way, this way. And ultimately you have to give way. This is sentient. Therefore sentient is superior.

There are two things within our experience: one, matter, not sentient; and another sentient. So this... Now, I am seer. Or sometimes I control both these things. But I am not supreme controller. But I can observe that there are two things, sentient and insentient, and I am observing. So, for the time being, I am superior of both the sentient and nonsentient. So the conclusion is the ultimate source of everything, ultimate knower, ultimate analyzer, must be a sentient. It cannot be insentient. That is experimental knowledge.

So in this way, this, our Krṣṇa consciousness movement, bhagavata-dharma, it is not sentiment. We can explain how God created. Sometimes it is, in Bible, it is said, "God said, 'Let there be creation,' and there was creation." But they cannot explain. Therefore in the modern age, scientifically advanced, they do not take it. But we can explain. Our bhagavata-dharma can explain how, simply by desiring, there is creation. So here it is said: chidyante sarva-saṁsayaḥ;. Chidyante sarva-saṁsayaḥ;. One, by this, following this bhagavata-dharma, studying from Bhagavata, the ultimate knowledge of everything, one can become completely doubtless that God is a person, He is sentient, He is the supreme director, He's the supreme knower, He's the supreme physist, the supreme chemist—everything, supreme.

Just like Krṣṇa lifted the mountain, giri-bara-dhari. Jaya radha-madhava kuñja-bihari gopi-jana-vallabha giri-bara-dhari. When there was torrents of rain, Vrndavana was being overflooded, and all the inhabitants became so much disturbed. They were seeing to, looking to Krṣṇa, because they did not know anything beyond Krṣṇa. Krṣṇa said, "Yes, I am lifting this mountain. Let it become a big umbrella of the whole state, or whole village." The atheist will say these are all stories. No. They're not stories. Because God is supreme, He is supreme physist, He knows how to make this mountain weightless. He knows the art. Just like so many gigantic planets are floating in the sky. That is a fact. Now who is floating? You cannot float even a small thing in the air, but such gigantic... Not only one, millions and trillions, they are floating. Who has made it possible, floating? So, God can do that. Therefore He is called all-powerful, the great.

So if Krṣṇa is God, then floating or make this mountain weightless, is it very difficult task for Him? No. He entered the ocean. Unless He knows the physical laws how to enter the ocean... It is technique only. Modern scientists, they are also entering, by machine. They're floating by machine. That is also physical science. So, if you know the physical science still more perfectly, you can float in the air without machine, you can enter within the water without machine, you can lift the mountain without machine. It is a question of perfect knowledge. (knocking sound) What is that knock, sound?

So here it is said that when you are actually advanced in spiritual knowledge, in devotional service, then chidyante sarva-saṁsayaḥ;. Saṁsaya means doubtfulness. Sometimes... Yes. Generally, "Oh, these are stories. Krṣṇa lifted a mountain." Because atheists say and we say, "Yes, maybe." But no. You must be firmly convinced, yourself, if you are Krṣṇa conscious, that "Yes, Krṣṇa did it." It is possible because He knew the physical science very perfectly. He knows and He, He can know, He can do it. One thing into another. Just like electrician, he can turn cooler into heater, heater into cooler. Because he knows the science. You cannot do that. So don't study Krṣṇa thinking yourself as Krṣṇa, that "I am also Krṣṇa." No. That is the defect. Everyone thinks that frog philosophy. Frog philosophy, he has got experience of three-feet well, and he has been informed that there is Atlantic Ocean. He's simply imagining, "How it is possible? How it is possible?" He is thinking maybe little more, four feet, five feet, six feet, ten feet, and as soon as ten feet he's burst. Because he has no more knowledge. But how the three-feet well can be compared with the Atlantic Ocean? That he does not know.

So we are think..., we have got limited energy, creative energy, so-called scientific knowledge, so-called other knowledge. Limited. Because our senses are limited. And we are thinking that God may be a little bigger than me, Krṣṇa? But as soon as it comes to the point that He, He can lift the mountain and the world, the planet, then they doubt. That is saṁsaya. But actually, if you are advanced in Krṣṇa consciousness, you must be free from all doubts. You must know perfectly well what is Krṣṇa. So that is also possible by devotional service. Just like Krṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gita: bhaktya mam abhijanati [Bg. 18.55]. "If one wants to understand Me perfectly..." Krṣṇa cannot be understood perfectly, but still, just to drive away our doubts... Because we have got so many doubts. So that doubts can be also dissipated bhaktya, by bhakti.

How? Why not by knowledge? Because there are three ways: karma, jñana, bhakti. By knowledge, scientific knowledge, Krṣṇa cannot be known. Why bhakti? Why Krṣṇa is prescribing bhakti? No. By knowledge, so-called knowledge, you cannot understand Krṣṇa. Therefore the so-called scientists, they are in doubts. It is not possible. If you think that "I shall speculate. Through knowledge, I shall understand God," that is not possible. Because God is unlimited; your knowledge is limited. How you can know God? How the bhaktas—they are not scientists, not educated very much—how they can know? Yes, they can know. How? That is stated in the Bhagavad-gita:

teṣaṁ satata-yuktanaṁ
bhajataṁ priti-purvakam
dadami buddhi-yogaṁ tam...
[Bg. 10.10]

Dadami buddhi-yogaṁ tam. Tam means "unto Him." Whom? Bhajataṁ priti-purvakam. Those who are engaged in devotional service with love and faith. Because God is within you. You haven't got to search out where is God. Isvaraḥ; sarva-bhutanam, hrdy antaḥ;-sthaḥ; [Bg. 18.61].

We have begun this chapter srṇvataṁ sva-kathaḥ; krṣṇaḥ; puṇya-sravaṇa-kirtanaḥ;... [SB 1.2.17]. (aside:) You are sleeping, this boy... Srṇvataṁ sva-kathaḥ; krṣṇaḥ; puṇya-sravaṇa-kirtanaḥ;. Anyone who is engaged in hearing about Krṣṇa... To whom? To Him, not those who are sleeping. Those who are actually hearing, srṇvatam. Srṇvatam means hearing, not sleeping. To such person. Bhajataṁ priti-purvakam, and engaged in devotional service. Buddhi-yogaṁ dadami tam, "I give intelligence." It doesn't require... If he's sincere, if he's actually a devotee, Krṣṇa will help him. Guru-krṣṇa-krpa. Guru is secondary, another mercy of Krṣṇa. Krṣṇa is helping within and without. That without help is guru, Krṣṇa's representative. So Krṣṇa is always ready to help us, and when Krṣṇa is helping us, it is very easy to understand Him. Therefore a devotee is beyond all doubts. Beyond all doubts. There is no doubt. Not that blindly we are accepting Krṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. No. We have got all our arguments, scientific, philosophical, anything. Then we accept Krṣṇa. That acceptance is nice. That is uttama-adhikari.

Kaniṣṭha-adhikari, madhyama-adhikari and uttama-adhikari. There are three stages of devotees-lower class, middle class and first class. The first-class devotee is without any doubt. The third-class devotee, he's accepting, he's accepting: "Here is God," that's all. But he has many doubts. The second class, he, although he has got doubts, he's accepting on the authority of Vedas. That is second class. And the first class, he knows perfectly well that "Here is God." That is the, the sarva-saṁsayaḥ;. Chidyante. They are beyond all doubts. "Yes, Krṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Here is Krṣṇa. In this temple here is, my Lord is standing. He has very kindly, mercifully, He has come to accept my service." That is first-class devotee. Just like Caitanya Mahaprabhu. As soon as He saw Jagannatha in the temple, immediately fainted. "Here is My Lord; I was searching after."

So there are stages. So those who are first class... Here it is stated ato vai kavayaḥ;. Kavayaḥ; means first class. Ato vai kavayo nityam. Perpetually, eternally. Bhaktiṁ paramaya muda. Devotional service. Transcendental, paramaya. The devotional service... For the third-class devotee, the devotional service is also third class. And the, although third class, first class, second class, we are distinguishing, it is not ordinary material first class, second class... Even in the spiritual world there is such divisions. The same division. Just like in the light, in the sunlight, there is division: the sunshine, the sun globe, and the sun-god. There are three divisions. It is not that because you are in the sunshine you know what is the sun globe or what is sun god. That is another stage. Similarly, just to become a devotee on the devotional service, there are stages. Stages. That is kaniṣṭha-adhikari, madhyama-adhikari. So uttama-adhikari, uttama-adhikari means first class. He's firmly convinced, "Krṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead." Nobody can deviate. He can convert others to understand Krṣṇa, that He's the Supreme Personality of Godhead. But nobody can convert him that Krṣṇa is not God. That is not possible. That is first class.

So here it is said: ato vai kavayo nityaṁ bhaktiṁ paramaya muda vasudeve bhagavati. Therefore those who are actually in the knowledge of Krṣṇa consciousness, science of God, they're firmly fixed up in the devotional service of Krṣṇa, Vasudeva. Vasudeve bhagavati. Then what about the third class? The third class also, if he stick to the devotional service according to the rules and regulation, vasudeve bhagavati bhakti-yogaḥ; prayojitaḥ;... [SB 1.2.7]. Prayojita means "just begun." Janayaty asu vairagyaṁ jñanaṁ ca yad ahaitukam. Then that devotional service to Vasudeva, Krṣṇa, will gradually help him how to become vairagya, how to become detached with material attraction, and how to acquire knowledge about Krṣṇa. Everything will come.

So for the kaniṣṭha-adhikari, we must stick to the principle. Gradually, everything will be revealed. Sevonmukhe hi jihvadau svayam eva sphuraty adaḥ; [Brs. 1.2.234]. In the beginning, because we have got blunt material senses, we cannot understand what is Krṣṇa, what is Krṣṇa's service. Ataḥ; sri-krṣṇa-namadi... What is Krṣṇa's chanting of name. We are thinking that this is chanting, just like we chant so many vibrations, this is also like that. We cannot understand. But if we take up all this devotional service in right earnestness to serve the Lord, then everything will be gradually revealed. That is required. But if we become slack in following the rules and regulations, then we remain the third class. We cannot raise ourself to the second class, first class position. Therefore all doubts remain. This is the position.

Thank you very much. Chant. (end)

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