Prabhupada: (leading devotee recitation)

na ca mat-sthani bhutani
pasya me yogam aisvaram
bhuta-bhrn na ca bhuta-stho
mamatma bhuta-bhavanaḥ;

So last verse we have discussed. Krṣṇa said... When we speak, "Krṣṇa," you should understand "Krṣṇa" means God, the Supreme Being. "Krṣṇa," the etymological meaning is "the all-attractive." Without being all-attractive there is no meaning of God. It is not that God is attractive only to certain class of men. No. God is attractive for all classes of men, unless he is animal. Animal does not know what is God and what is the attraction of God. He does not know. But human being, in the human society, at least in the civilized human society there is a certain idea of God. Either you follow Christianity or Vedic principle of Mohammedan religion or even Buddha religion, there is conception of God. There is an attempt to understand God. That is human society. Therefore, according to the capability or country and the people, the conception of God may be a little different from one another. But the attraction for God is there. There is no doubt about it. So God appears in three fundamental features: brahmeti paramatmeti bhagavan iti sabdyate.

vadanti tat tattva-vidas
tattvaṁ yaj jñanam advayam
brahmeti paramatmeti
bhagavan iti sabdyate
[SB 1.2.11]

So God is realized in three features by the transcendentalists. The first is impersonal Brahman, impersonal Brahman without any particular form. That is called Brahman realization. Above that, there is Paramatma realization, localized. As Krṣṇa said in the previous verse, maya tatam idaṁ sarvam, everywhere there is God. In the heart of everyone, even within the atom, there is God. This is called Paramatma feature. Localized everywhere, God is there. And then Bhagavan. Bhagavan, personal. The Personality of Godhead, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So in the Supreme Personality, Krṣṇa said in the previous verse, mat-sthani sarva-bhutani na ca ahaṁ teṣu avasthitaḥ; [Bg. 9.4]. That is explained in this verse that "Everything is resting upon Me. But at the same time," na ca mat-sthani bhutani, "they are not also in Me." This particular portion has to be understood. When Krṣṇa says, God says, that everything is resting upon Him, that means everything is resting upon His expanded energy, not personally on Him. Personally He is aloof. Therefore it is said, na ca mat-sthani bhutani.

The same example. Just like when we say everything is resting on the sunshine, that does not mean everything is in the sun but the sunshine is not different from the sun. Therefore you can say that, expanded form, everything is resting on the sun. Try to understand this analogy. So nothing can exist without God, nothing is except God, but still, everything is not God. That has to be understood. This is called acintya-bhedabheda-tattva, simultaneously one and different. So the conclusion is, the Mayavadi philosophy, impersonalists, they say that if God has expanded in everything there is no particular personal existence of God. That is Mayavada philosophy. But that is not the fact. Fact is that although God is personal, He is person. Just like you are person, I am person, He is person, but He is the Supreme Person. And everything is expanded by His energy. In another place, in the Viṣṇu Puraṇa, it is explained very nicely that parasya brahmaṇaḥ; saktis tathedam akhilaṁ jagat.

eka-desa-sthitasyagner
jyotsna vistariṇi yatha
parasya brahmaṇaḥ; saktis
tathedam akhilaṁ jagat

It is very clear conception, that the agni or the fire is situated in one place, but it has expanded by his...Eka-desa-sthitasyagner jyotsna vistariṇi. Jyotsna means illumination. Illumination has expanded. That is... We can understand. If there is dark place and if there is a fire place in that dark, immediately there is illumination. That is expanded. Similarly, God is situated in His own place. That is called Goloka Vrndavana. Goloka eva nivasaty akhilatma-bhutaḥ; [Bs. 5.37]. That is God. Although He is situated in His own abode, which is called Goloka Vrndavana, He has expanded throughout the creation by His energy. This is explained. Eka-desa-sthitasyagneḥ;. Agni. Agni means fire. Fire may be situated in one place but the illumination has expanded. Similarly, God is situated in His own place but His energy, parasya brahmaṇaḥ; saktiḥ;...

So whatever you see, that is simply expansion of the energy of God. Parasya brahmaṇaḥ; saktis tathedam akhilaṁ jagat. Akhilaṁ jagat, whole universe, whatever you are seeing, that is expansion of the energy. But the Mayavada philosophy, they cannot understand. They are less intelligent. Therefore they say, "If God had expanded everywhere, then where is God, personal?" No, that is not the fact. The fact is God is person. He is situated in one place but His energy... (child crying) His energy has expanded. Whatever you see in this material world or spiritual world... Material world... The difference between material world and spiritual world means in the material world we have forgotten Krṣṇa. Material means... When we forget God, that is material. And when we know God, existence of God, then that is spiritual. This is the difference between material and spiritual.

Just like this temple is spiritual because here there is no forgetfulness of God. Everyone is... Every moment, twenty-four hours, they are always remembering God. Therefore it is spiritual world, nirguṇa. If you live in the temple or if you live in God's business, Krṣṇa consciousness, then you are in the spiritual world. You are not in the material world. Material world means where God is forgotten. That is material world. So God is expanded by His energies. Tathedam akhilaṁ jagat. Spiritual world means when His spiritual energy is expanded, that is spiritual world. And when His material energy is expanded. Both of them are God energies, but in one energy...

Just like I will give you again the same example, the government. The government, say, the university department, educational department, and the jail department. The jail department is also government department. It is not that government is absent from the jail department. Rather, government is spending more money for the jail department, more than the government spends on the university department. So both of them are government concern, but one department is full of criminals, and one department is full of learned scholars. This is the difference. Try to understand. You don't think that material world is out of the control of God. It is also under the control, exactly. The jail department is also under the control of the government. So that is the difference, material world and spiritual world. Material world means full of criminals, or against God, or defying the authority of God. And the spiritual world? Everyone is accepting the supremacy of God. That is material world and spiritual world.

So here it is said, na ca mat-sthani bhutani. Where God is forgotten... That is Godlessness. Na ca mat-sthani bhutani pasya me yogam aisvaram. Although they are living within the kingdom of God, still they have forgotten because they wanted to forget. God is giving us facility that if you want to forget Him, He will give you good facilities to forget Him forever. Ye yatha maṁ prapadyante taṁs tathaiva bhajamy aham [Bg. 4.11]. But if you want God, He will give all facilities to come back to Him, back to Godhead. So this is our position in the human form of life. If we want to go back to home, back to Godhead, then we can do that in this life. And if we want to forget Him again, we have got this chance. If we want to forget Krṣṇa, God, then we are again in the cycle of birth and death. That is the beginning of this chapter, Ninth Chapter, Bhagavad-gita:

asraddadhanaḥ; puruṣa
dharmasyasya parantapa
aprapya maṁ nivartante
mrtyu-saṁsara-vartmani
[Bg. 9.3]

Two things, that is explained. Asraddadhanaḥ;. What Krṣṇa is speaking, the instruction, if we have no faith to believe Him, and if we don't accept it, then the result is that he is losing the chance. He got this human form of life to understand God, but if he is missing this opportunity, then the result will be aprapya maṁ nivartante. We have come from God. Either you go back to home, back to Godhead, or again we go back to the cycle of birth and death. Mrtyu-saṁsara-vartmani. The cycle of birth and death, it is called mrtyu-saṁsara. Saṁsara means tribulation, tribulation, sufferings. Suffering... The ultimate suffering is mrtyu, death. So death, again birth. That is also suffering. Although we forget, but to take birth is a great suffering. Great suffering means you have to enter the womb of the mother and you have to grow your body and there is risk of being killed also. Especially at the present moment they are killing the child in the womb. So just imagine how much suffering it is. And if he is killed, if the child is killed, then his term of imprisonment in that body is not finished. Therefore he has to enter again another body, again enter into the mother's womb. And, it may be, many hundreds of years may pass on before he can again see light. So it is great suffering.

Therefore Krṣṇa presents, janma-mrtyu-jara-vyadhi-duḥ;kha-doṣanudarsanam [Bg. 13.9]. Intelligent person, they should always keep before, the sufferings. We are making solution of our suffering for ten years or fifty years or hundred years because we cannot live here more than hundred years. So that is temporary. I am eternal; you are eternal. Our real suffering is to take birth and remain in the womb of the mother. And even coming out of the womb of the mother, the small children, they feel always uncomfortable. Therefore they cry. The mother cannot understand what is the suffering of the... He is hungry but the mother is thinking that he wants to sleep or misunderstanding the child is uncomfortable. In this way childhood is past. Then again we become boy, again go to a school, again examination, again this. In this way the whole life is suffering. But under the spell of maya, we are thinking we are happy. Therefore it is said mrtyu-saṁsara-vartmani. If we want to get relief from this business of birth, death, old age and disease, let us take to Krṣṇa consciousness, or God consciousness, and take His instruction directly and apply it in life. Your life will be successful. This is the subject matter of this chapter.

So how God is situated. He is explaining. Na ca mat-sthani bhutani pasya me yogam aisvaram. Aisvaram. Aisvaram means supremacy. How supreme He is. Everything is resting on Him; still, everything is without Him. That is very easy to understand, that we cannot exist without God's mercy. Without the potency on which... This potency is life. Try to understand what is this life. We have got this material body. Material body means... This gross body is made of earth, water, air, fire, ether. This is the gross body, and the subtle body, mind, intelligence, and ego. We are situated in this body. Therefore what is this, these energies? It is Krṣṇa's energy. Therefore we are situated in the energy, material energy of the Supreme Lord. We are ourself also energy of the Supreme Lord, marginal energy. So although we are situated in God's energy, we are forgetful. Therefore Krṣṇa said, mat-sthani sarva-bhutani: [Bg. 9.4] "Everyone is existing on My energy; still, I am not there." "I am not there" means the living entity has forgotten or cannot understand God, that he is within the God's energy, God's material power or energy. Still, he cannot understand.

And another person, na ca mat-sthani bhutani pasya me yogam, bhuta-bhrn na ca bhuta-sthaḥ;. Bhuta-bhrt, He is maintaining everyone. But that does not mean that He is one of them. He is also being maintained. That is mistake. This is explained in the Vedic literature, that nityo nityanaṁ cetanas cetananam eko yo bahunaṁ vidadhati kaman (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). Two kinds of living entities, nityo nityanam. He, the Supreme Lord, is also eternal; we are also eternal. We are plural number, and He is singular number. Nityo nityanaṁ cetanas cetananam. Cetana means with consciousness. We are also conscious, and Krṣṇa is also conscious, so He is the supreme conscious.

And in another place it is stated in the Bhagavad-gita, kṣetra-jñaṁ capi maṁ viddhi sarva-kṣetreṣu bharata [Bg. 13.3]. There are kṣetra-jña. Kṣetra means this body. Kṣetra means this field. So just like a cultivator works on the field and produces his food grains, result of tilling the field, similarly, we have got a particular type of body, field, and I am the tiller of the field. Therefore I am owner of the field. In India, of course, you have got small plot of land, and each cultivator owns it and he produces his own food. Similarly, according to our body, we are producing the resultant action and we are enjoying the result. So enjoying the result means in this body we are creating some circumstances, and if it is not possible to enjoy or suffer from the resultant action, then the next life we get another body; we suffer or enjoy. This is going on.

So the living entity is called kṣetra-jña. Kṣetra-jña means one who knows his body. Every one of us, we know. I think, "It is my body." Nobody says, "I body." Everyone says, "My body. My finger. My hand." So therefore he is known as kṣetra-jña, one who knows about his body. So Krṣṇa says that kṣetra-jñaṁ capi maṁ viddhi [Bg. 13.3]. I am proprietor of this body, you are proprietor of your body, but Krṣṇa is proprietor of everybody. That is Krṣṇa. Maya tatam idaṁ sarvam [Bg. 9.4]. He is in everyone's body. Isvaraḥ; sarva-bhutanaṁ hrd-dese arjuna tiṣṭhati [Bg. 18.61]. So Krṣṇa, that singular number. Eko yo bahunaṁ vidadhati kaman. So that one singular number, supreme conscious person, Krṣṇa, He is maintaining the plural number. Therefore here it is said, bhuta-bhrn na ca bhuta-stho mamatma bhuta-bhavanaḥ;.

So whatever flourishing condition we are having in this body or in this life, that is also Krṣṇa's mercy. We want Krṣṇa. From Krṣṇa we want something and either directly or indirectly. Even if we do not ask him directly, indirectly I desire something, and Krṣṇa is within yourself, myself. He understands that "This particular living being is desiring something," so He gives you the facility of whatever you desire. But you do not know, whatever you desire, that is the source of your suffering. But you do not... We do not accept Krṣṇa's instruction, that "Do not desire any more." Sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekaṁ saraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. He advises that "If you desire, then you'll suffer. I'll give you facility to fulfill your desire, that you will get, but that is not good. You will suffer again, again and again." Bhutva bhutva praliyate [Bg. 8.19]. To fulfill your some desire, if this desire is not fulfilled in this life, then you have to accept another body. So another body means you have to enter the mother's womb with so much risk and so much suffering. So so long you'll desire you'll have to accept, mrtyu-saṁsara-vartmani [Bg. 9.3], one body after another. And to accept one body, leaving one body, that is very, very miserable condition. That we do not understand but we should understand. Therefore bhuta-bhrn na ca bhuta-stho mamatma bhuta-bhavanaḥ;. So as the living entity is desiring, Krṣṇa is giving him the facility.

That is explained in another place in the Bhagavad-gita. Isvaraḥ; sarva-bhutanaṁ hrd-dese 'rjuna tiṣṭhati [Bg. 18.61]. Isvara, the Supreme, He is everywhere. Maya tatam idaṁ sarvam. We have already explained. So He is within the core of our heart. So whatever we desire, He understands. He is omnipotent, omniscient. He can immediately understand. Therefore it should be understood that there are two living entities. One is Paramatma and the other is the jivatma. Jivatma. That is clearly explained in the Bhagavata, kṣetra-jñaṁ capi maṁ viddhi [Bg. 13.3].

In Upaniṣad also there is a verse that the two birds are sitting in one tree. One bird is eating the fruit of the tree and the other bird is simply observing. The observing bird is Krṣṇa or the Supersoul, and the eating bird is the individual soul. So as you desire... That is said, isvaraḥ; sarva-bhutanaṁ hrd-dese arjuna... [Bg. 18.61]. He is sitting with me. He is so friendly that He is giving us guidance always and He is waiting for the time when you shall give up your desires and surrender to the other bird, the observing bird. That is Krṣṇa, Paramatma. Paramatma is so kind that I am taking the body of human being—He is there. I am taking the body of an animal—He is there. I am taking the body of a demigod—He is there. I am taking the body of a demigod—He is there. He is so nice friend, He is always... And giving me advice that "Why you are suffering in this way, creating your desires and suffering? Why you are doing this? Better you stop this. You surrender to Me. Come back to home, back to Godhead." This is... He is always asking. So isvaraḥ; sarva-bhutanaṁ hrd-dese 'rjuna tiṣṭhati [Bg. 18.61]. He is staying in everyone's heart and He is omnipotent. He understands what I desire.

Bhramayan sarva-bhutani yantraruḍhani mayaya [Bg. 18.61]. Because I am desiring something, because everything is not fulfilled by this body, therefore I have to accept. Suppose if I want to drink fresh blood. Nowadays they are drinking fresh blood. So Krṣṇa says, "All right, you get a body, a tiger's body, a lion's body, and you drink fresh blood. Why artificially? Just take this body." If you have no discrimination to eat anything, so Krṣṇa gives us the body of a pig. You can eat anything. Up to stool, you can eat without any difficulty. So, or if you want to enjoy like a demigod, so He gives you the same body. This is going on. But this is... Either I get the body of a demigod or I get the body of a hog or pig or anything, it is suffering because I have to give up one body; that is suffering. I have to accept another body; that is janma-mrtyu-jara-vyadhi [Bg. 13.9]. And as soon as I get body, the disease and old age is there. Therefore any type of body you get...

Just like in the Western countries, the Americans or Europeans, they think in India that they are very happy. But actually that is not the fact. Everyone is suffering. Anyone who has got this material body, he is suffering, either he is India or in Europe or heavenly planet or this planet. Abrahma-bhuvanal lokaḥ;. Therefore Krṣṇa advises that "Even if you go to the planet known as Brahmaloka where duration of life is very, very long and the facilities or living condition are far, far superior than here," so Krṣṇa says, "even if you go to the Brahmaloka..." Abrahma-bhuvanal lokaḥ; punar avartino 'rjuna [Bg. 8.16], yad gatva na nivartante tad dhama [Bg. 15.6]. He advises that you come to His place.

Don't try to promote yourself in any other planet. Just like they are trying to go to the moon planet, similarly, somebody is trying to go to the heavenly planet or Brahmaloka or Indraloka, Candraloka. That you can go. Yanti deva-vrata devan pitṝn yanti [Bg. 9.25]. You can go, but all of them are infected with the sufferings, namely the birth, death, and old age, and disease. So bhuta-bhrn na ca bhuta-stho mamatma bhuta-bhavanaḥ;. So God gives you chances, whatever body you want. He does not prepare Himself, but yantraruḍhani mayaya [Bg. 18.61]. His agent is this maya, material energy. And the material energy is conducted under His order. Mayadhyakṣeṇa prakrtiḥ; suyate sa-caracaram [Bg. 9.10].

So God, Krṣṇa, indicates the Supersoul who is situated within your heart. You desire something and He immediately orders the material nature that "You give him such and such body." Yantra. The body is yantra, machine. This body is a machine. So yantraruḍhani. He is seated in one kind of machine and he goes from one place to another, from one planet to another, from one life to another. This is going on. Bhramayan sarva-bhutani yantraruḍhani mayaya [Bg. 18.61]. This business is going on. If we want to stop this business, we have got this opportunity, human form of life. We can understand things if we have got little intelligence. And everything is being explained by Krṣṇa. If we take Krṣṇa's instruction and mold our life accordingly—that is the Krṣṇa consciousness movement—then our life becomes successful. And after giving up this body, we are no more going to accept any material body. Tyaktva dehaṁ punar janma naiti mam eti kaunteya [Bg. 4.9]. We get a suitable body in which we can go back to home, back to Godhead. Mad-yajino 'pi yanti mam [Bg. 9.25].

So we have to work here. So we can prepare ourself to being promoted to the higher planetary system or lower animal kingdom. We can become pig; we can become hog; we can become demigod; we can become so on, so on. Whatever we desire, Krṣṇa will give us opportunity. But that will not make us happy. If we go back to home, back to Godhead, without the tribulation of repetition of birth and death, that will make us happy. So our Krṣṇa consciousness movement is giving opportunity to everyone how to go back to home, back to Godhead, after giving up this body. One has to give up this body. That is certain. But why this body should be wasted for propensities like the animals? It should be fully utilized how to go back to home, back to Godhead. This is our propaganda, and we base on these authorities of Bhagavad-gita As It Is. It is not that we have manufactured it. There is no question of manufacturing. It is authoritative. It is accepted by all the acaryas. So our request is that you also take this opportunity and be Krṣṇa conscious, and next life you go back to home, back to Godhead, and be eternally happy. Thank you very much.

Devotees: Jaya. [break]

Guest (1) (girl): Srila Prabhupada, would you please explain why Krṣṇa consciousness hadn't come to the West until now, why it hasn't come earlier?

Prabhupada: Because you were not born. After your birth we have come here to take you back to home, back to Godhead. Now you take the opportunity; come with us. We were waiting for your birth.

Gurukrpa: Questions?

Guest (2) (man): How can one strengthen the spiritual will to act plain and live the spiritual life?

Prabhupada: Spiritual life we are leading here. You can see. We are worshiping the Deity. We are chanting Hare Krṣṇa mantra. We haven't got to go to the factory early in the morning. This is spiritual life. Hare Krṣṇa mantra, eat sumptuously Krṣṇa prasadam, and worship the Deity, that is spiritual life.

Devotee: Srila Prabhupada, can one be in spiritual life if they're not worshiping the Deity?

Prabhupada: Spiritual life means service to Krṣṇa. So if you don't serve Krṣṇa, where is spiritual life? That is the difference between material life and spiritual life. In the material life you serve but you don't serve Krṣṇa. Or you serve Krṣṇa indirectly under pressure. But actually when you serve Krṣṇa then you are situated in spiritual life.

maṁ ca yo 'vyabhicareṇa
bhakti-yogena sevate
sa guṇan samatityaitan
brahma-bhuyaya kalpate
[Bg. 14.26]

So spiritual life means to serve Krṣṇa. Otherwise material life. Everyone is serving. That is material. Nobody can say that "I am not serving." Everyone is serving. That I have repeatedly said. If he has nothing to serve, then he keeps a dog and serves him. So service is my business. If I don't serve Krṣṇa, that is material life. And when we serve Krṣṇa, that is spiritual life.

Guest (3) (young man): I'm asking this question. I'm concerned about the perverted caste system in India, right? I'm asking this question on a brahmaṇa, the varṇasrama-dharma system. If one of your brahmaṇa initiated disciples falls from this platform, leaves the temple and commits offenses, then returns, demanding respect, should he be allowed to keep the sacred thread or should he be engaged in menial service, which never fails to cultivate humility?

Prabhupada: Well, that is to be judged by the spiritual master. You cannot judge.

Guest (3): Well, I'm asking this because...

Prabhupada: You cannot judge who is following, who is not following. That is not your jurisdiction. Therefore he has accepted a spiritual master, his jurisdiction. He'll do whatever necessary.

Guest (3): Has there been a case...

Prabhupada: So that case you cannot judge. The case has to be judged by the spiritual master.

Guest (3): Could you give me an example of a case that has been...

Prabhupada: Just like if somebody has done something wrong he is taken to the court and the judge gives his decision, whether he is criminal or not. The man who has arrested him, he cannot give the decision. It has to be tried by the higher authority. Then the judgment will be. Anything more?

Guest (1): Do they have Deity worship in any of the other planets in the material universe?

Prabhupada: Hm?

Gurukrpa: Is there Deity worship on other planets?

Prabhupada: Yes, every planet. (end)

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