Prabhupada: There is a story. In a cowshed there was fire. So after that incidence, the cow, as soon as the cow sees something red, oh, they began to disturb, "Oh, there is fire." Similarly, here, tasting the bitterness of so-called rascaldom, they think that Radha-Krṣṇa is also similar rascaldom. So we shall begin? So when they have sent the file? Did you ask?

Brahmananda: I think two days ago.

Prabhupada: Oh. Then they might have received.

Brahmananda: Yes.

Prabhupada: (starting to play karatalas) Jaya oṁ viṣṇu-pada paramahaṁsa parivrajakacarya aṣṭottara-sata sri srimad bhaktisiddhanta sarasvati gosvami... (chants gurvaṣṭaka, kirtana, prema-dhvani)

om ajñana-timirandhasya
jñanañjana-salakaya
cakṣur unmilitaṁ yena
tasmai sri-gurave namaḥ;

[I offer my respectful obeisances unto my spiritual master, who with the torchlight of knowledge has opened my eyes, which were blinded by the darkness of ignorance.]

sri-caitanya-mano-'bhiṣṭaṁ
sthapitaṁ yena bhu-tale
svayaṁ rupaḥ; kada mahyaṁ
dadati sva-padantikam

[When will Srila Rupa Gosvami Prabhupada, who has established within this material world the mission to fulfill the desire of Lord Caitanya, give me shelter under his lotus feet?]

vande 'haṁ sri-guroḥ; sri-yuta-pada-kamalaṁ sri-gurun vaiṣṇavaṁs ca
sri-rupaṁ sagrajataṁ saha-gaṇa-raghunathanvitaṁ taṁ sa-jivam
sadvaitaṁ savadhutaṁ parijana-sahitaṁ krṣṇa-caitanya-devaṁ
sri-radha-krṣṇa-padan saha-gaṇa-lalita-sri-visakhanvitaṁs ca

[I offer my respectful obeisances unto the lotus feet of my spiritual master and of all the other preceptors on the path of devotional service. I offer my respectful obeisances unto all the Vaiṣṇavas and unto the six Gosvamis, including Srila Rupa Gosvami, Srila Sanatana Gosvami, Raghunatha dasa Gosvami, Jiva Gosvami and their associates. I offer my respectful obeisances unto Sri Advaita Acarya Prabhu, Sri Nityananda Prabhu, Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, and all His devotees, headed by Srivasa Ṭhakura. I then offer my respectful obeisances unto the lotus feet of Lord Krṣṇa, Srimati Radharaṇi and all the gopis, headed by Lalita and Visakha.]

In the Eighth Chapter, Bhagavad-gita, Lord Krṣṇa says,

anta-kale ca mam eva
smaran muktva kalevaram
yaḥ; prayati sa mad-bhavaṁ
yati nasty atra saṁsayaḥ;
[Bg. 8.5]

Anta-kale means "at the time of death." "At the time of death, one who remembers Me..." Anta-kale ca mam eva. Mam eva. Mam eva means... Eva means "certainly," and me means..., mam means "me." "Certainly Me." The Supreme Personality of Godhead says, "Certainly Me." That means Krṣṇa, or Krṣṇa's expansion, the form—not formless. Mam. Formless... This is explained in the Twelfth Chapter, that kleso 'dhikataras teṣam avyaktasakta-cetasam [Bg. 12.5]. One who is attached to the impersonal Brahman, then his business is troublesome. Klesa. Klesa means troublesome. Avyakta hi gatir duḥ;khaṁ dehavadbhir avapyate. Dehavat. Because we are in this material body and our senses are not able to understand except something form. So if by artificial way I want to think of formless, it becomes a troublesome business.

Actually, God is not formless, but His form is different. Everything has form. Without form, there is nothing. Even the smallest atom, it has got form. Just like in geometry, they describe a point has no length, no breadth—because the point is so small that our instrument, measuring instrument, fails to measure what is its length or breadth. Therefore they give it up, that "It has no length and no breadth." But actually, it is not a fact. It has got length and breadth, but we have no instrument, we have no power to see.

So spirit soul is aṇor aṇiyan mahato mahiyan. Spirit soul is the greater than the greatest and it is the smaller than the smallest. So we cannot see the smallest; we cannot see the greatest. Greater than the greatest. We can think of the greatest, the sky, the expansion of the sky—unlimited. But such skies, God is so great that innumerable, millions and billions of skies are within Him. In the Brahma-saṁhita it is stated, yasyaika-nisvasita-kalam athavalambya... [Bs. 5.48]. Therefore we have to refer to the authoritative scripture to get knowledge. As I told you the other day, that transcendental knowledge has to be acquired by aural reception. There is no other way. Just like, practical. The geometrical calculation is that the sun, the dimension of the sun is many, many hundred, thousands of..., greater than the earth. But we are seeing just like a disk. So our sense is unable to see how great it is. It is a material thing. So how we can see the greatness of God with these material eyes? It is not possible. As you are understanding about the sun by authoritative statement of the geometry, that this sun globe is so great, so many hundred thousands greater than the... But you are seeing just like a disk. So how to get the knowledge of the sun? By receiving through the ear. That's all. Simply you have to receive the knowledge from the authority. It is not that practically you are experimenting by going to the sun, that it is so great and so long, so broad. That is not possible. You have to receive such knowledge through authority. That's all.

So even for material understanding which is beyond our sense perception we have to receive knowledge from authority. Similarly, we cannot understand what is God. But from the authoritative sources we can understand that God is so great. Just like in the Brahma-saṁhita it is stated that yasyaika-nisvasita-kalam athavalambya jivanti loma-vilaja jagad-aṇḍa-nathaḥ; [Bs. 5.48]—that you see this universe, and in each universe there is a predominating demigod which is called Brahma, or jagad-aṇḍa-natha, the master of the universe. That master of the universe is living, only taking the duration of breathing of Maha-Viṣṇu. Just like you are breathing, inhaling and exhaling. So when Maha-Viṣṇu exhales, innumerable universes come out. And when He inhales, all these universes go into His body. So just imagine how great He is, how big He is. That is not conceivable with our limited sense. But if we believe, then you get the perfect knowledge. There is no doubt. If you don't believe, there is no other way. You cannot understand what is God, or what is His length, what is His breadth.

So whenever in the scripture it is said that God is without form, that means He has no form which we have got experience. But He has got form. Just the same example. When you cannot measure, you say a point has no length, no breadth. But actually, it is not a fact. The point has length and breadth. We have no instrument to measure it, that's all. Similarly, when as soon as we say "form," we understand this form. Just like I am seeing your form, you are seeing my form. So we understand that God may be a form, and because God also comes in this form also. Just like in Bhagavad-gita it is said, avajananti maṁ muḍha manuṣiṁ tanum asritam: [Bg. 9.11] "Because I have come in the form of an ordinary human being, they are deriding: 'How He can be God?' " So many scholars, so many philosophers, they deny to accept Krṣṇa, God. Why? Because He appears to be just like you and me, a human being. But God can appear in any way because He is all-powerful. He sometimes appears as fish; sometimes He appears as tortoise; sometimes He appears like a boar; sometimes He appears half-lion, half-man. Similarly sometimes He appears man, sometimes He appears as woman.

So we cannot restrict God, that "He cannot be like this. He cannot come here. He cannot take any shape." No. He is not under my restriction. Then how God is great? If I put God under my restricted knowledge or limited knowledge, then God becomes under my understanding. But the Vedic language says, avan manasa-gocaraḥ;. He's beyond the expression of words. He is beyond the conception of mind. He is greatest of the great, and the smallest of the small. How He's the smallest of the... We are also, because we are spirit spark. Now, do we know what is our measurement? That we can find in the sastra. I have several times mentioned that one ten-thousandth part of the tip of your hair is the measurement of the soul. Now you have no instrument. You cannot measure even the tip of your hair, and what to speak of ten-thousandth part of it. Impossible. Therefore because you cannot find out by dissecting this body where is that spirit spark... There is, but your present eyes cannot find it out. Therefore you say nirakara, or no form. But actually, it has form.

We get information from the sastras. Just like we get complete information of the sun globe from geography or from authoritative sources, scientist, astrologer, astronomer, mathematician, so similarly, you can get information what is the form of individual soul, what is the form of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. They are there. But His form is not like your form or my form. The Brahma-saṁhita says, sac-cid-ananda-vigraha [Bs. 5.1]. His form is full of bliss, and full of knowledge, and eternal. But this body, this body, our body, is neither eternal, neither full of knowledge, neither blissful. So we can distinguish what is the form of God. Sac-cid-ananda. Sat. Sat means eternal, cit means full of knowledge, and ananda means full of blissfulness.

So this body is neither blissful, neither eternal, nor full of knowledge. It is full of ignorance and full of miseries and not permanent; temporary. So God hasn't got such body. Therefore sometimes it is said in the Vedic literature: formless. Formless means the form which you can conceive at the present moment, God hasn't got that form. But when He descends like you and me, that is His mercy. Paritraṇaya sadhunaṁ vinasaya ca duṣkrtam [Bg. 4.8]. He comes just to..., being visible to our eyes. Just like this picture. This picture is not... It is not to be taken that He's not God, He is picture. The picture of God is also God. Picture of Krṣṇa is Krṣṇa. The sound, name Krṣṇa, that is also Krṣṇa. But just to give us facility to understand... You do not think that this picture of Krṣṇa is painted by some artist's imagination. No. It is not imagination. There is description in the scripture what is the form of Krṣṇa.

veṇuṁ kvaṇantam aravinda-dalayatakṣaṁ
barhavataṁsam asitambuda-sundaraṅgam
kandarpa-koṭi-kamaniya-viseṣa-sobhaṁ
govindam adi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajami
[Bs. 5.30]

Veṇu means flute. He is playing on flute. Veṇuṁ kvaṇantam aravinda-dalayatakṣam. Aravinda means lotus petal. His eyes are so nice, like lotus petal. Veṇuṁ kvaṇantam aravinda-dalayatakṣaṁ barhavataṁsam [Bs. 5.30]. Barhavataṁsam means the peacock feather. You'll find Krṣṇa and Viṣṇu, He is very fond of this peacock feather. Everywhere you'll find the peacock feather. Barhavataṁsam asitambuda-sundaraṅgam. And His color is a cloud, darkish cloud. Asita, asitambuda. Ambuda means cloud and asita means blackish. Sundaraṅgam. But still, He is so beautiful... Veṇuṁ kvaṇantam aravinda-dalayatakṣaṁ barhavataṁsam asitambuda-sundaraṅgam, kandarpa-koṭi [Bs. 5.30]. He is so beautiful that He surpasses the beauty of millions of Cupid. Cupid is supposed to be very beautiful. It impels lust, Cupid. So He is many more thousands times beautiful than Cupid. Kandarpa-koṭi-kamaniya-viseṣa-sobham [Bs. 5.30]. Viseṣa-sobham. He has got His particular beauty. Govindam adi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajami **. In this way there are description.

So according to the description, these pictures are drawn. It is not imagination. So this form is factual. It is not imagination. The Mayavada philosophers, impersonalists, they answer the Bhagavad-gita's word that kleso 'dhikataras teṣam avyaktasakta-cetasam... [Bg. 12.5]. One who is attached to impersonal views, their process of meditation or execution of spiritual activities is very troublesome. Now, therefore Mayavada philosopher, they say that "God has no form. But because you cannot meditate upon the formless, so you just imagine any form you like." So God is not subjected to your imagination. That is not God's form. If we imagine something... And that has been degraded. Saṅkaracarya limited such imaginative forms to five only. Five. What is that five? Viṣṇu, Lord Siva, and Sun, and Gaṇesa, and Devi, Durga. He limited, that "Any of these five forms you can meditate upon, you worship. And ultimately, it is formless." But at the present moment, unauthorized person has degraded in such a way that "You can imagine any form. You can imagine even stool." They say like that. You see.

So... So neither God is limited to any five imaginative forms or this form or that form. His form nobody can imagine, neither He is within our perception. But He is as He is. Paraṁ bhavam ajananto mama bhuta-mahesvaram [Bg. 9.11]. Therefore we have to understand the Supreme Personality of Godhead from authoritative sources, just like the Bhagavad-gita. The Supreme Personality of Godhead Himself speaking, "What I am." This is the science of God. If we take Him as He is saying, then we become perfect knower of God. There is no difficulty. But if we deny, then we are in difficulty. Those who have accepted Krṣṇa as He is, God as He is, they have attained perfection also. It is practical. Not that we are. There are millions and billions followers of Krṣṇa in India. Not only ordinary followers. Just like many great stalwarts, educationists, I mean to say, saintly person like Saṅkaracarya, Madhvacarya, Ramanujacarya, great educated and learned scholars, they have accepted. Lord Caitanya has accepted. And... There are so many others also. And there are millions and millions of temples of Krṣṇa. They are being worshiped by millions and billions of devotees still. Still, if you go some Krṣṇa temple in South India, you'll find thousands of thousands of people always assembled. You have no imagination. You see? In Jaipur temple, Jaipur temple, the king's palace... Within the king's palace there is Jaipur temple. So whenever you go in that Jaipur temple, you'll find at least one thousand men assembled. At least. If you go Jagannatha Puri, you'll find at least two thousand men, daily coming and going. If you go to Vrndavana, you'll find at least five thousand men, daily coming and going. So... And in Vrndavana itself there are five thousand temples. Out of that only seven or eight temples are very big temples. In other words, each and every house is Krṣṇa temple. So it is not that... Somebody asked me, "How many there are in India Krṣṇa conscious people?" Oh, the Krṣṇa conscious men in India, at least, the Hindus, oh, they are ninety percent, at least, all Krṣṇa conscious.

So His form..., His form, His name, His quality, His pastimes—everything transcendental. Therefore in the Bhagavad-gita it is said, anta-kale ca mam eva. Mam eva [Bg. 8.5]. "Only unto Me." If you simply practice the Krṣṇa's form to see... Just like if you chant Hare Krṣṇa, at once you see the form of Krṣṇa within your mind. Therefore Bhagavad-gita says "One who is thinking of Me, Krṣṇa, always, He is the greatest yogi." He's the greatest yogi. Yoginam api sarveṣam. There are many kinds of yogis, but Krṣṇa says that "Of all the yogis..." Yoginam api sarveṣam. Sarveṣam means you can count as many millions of yogis. But of all them, all of them... Yoginam api sarveṣaṁ mad-gatenantar-atmana: [Bg. 6.47] "One who is always thinking of Me," antar-atmana, "within himself, within the heart, within the mind," sraddhavan, "with faith and love," bhajate yo mam... Bhajate means engaged in devotional service. "Krṣṇa, please be kind upon me. I am fallen. Kindly accept me." This is yoga. That's all. Very simple thing. "Krṣṇa, I am in..."

That Lord Caitanya has said. Ayi nanda-tanuja. He has especially mentioned nanda-tanuja, "Oh, the son of Maharaja Nanda." Because in Vrndavana Krṣṇa appeared Himself as the cowherd boy, son of Maharaja Nanda. So Lord Caitanya is teaching us, ayi nanda-tanuja: "Oh, the beloved son of Maharaja Nanda." Ayi nanda-tanuja patitaṁ kiṅkaraṁ mam. "I am Your eternal servant. Now, somehow or other, I am fallen into this material existence." Ayi nanda-tanuja patitaṁ kiṅkaraṁ maṁ viṣame bhavambudhau, the great ocean of material existence. Don't you see the biggest, outer space? It is... What to speak of ocean. We cannot compare with even ocean. So many millions of oceans can be pushed in this space, of material space. So patitaṁ kiṅkaraṁ maṁ viṣame bhavambudhau krpaya, "By Your causeless mercy," krpaya tava pada-paṅkaja-sthita-dhuli-sadrsaṁ vicintaya. Paṅkaja. Paṅkaja means a lotus flower. A lotus flower, you'll find some dust, saffron. So the devotee is praying that "As in the lotus flower there are so many dusts, You kindly accept me as one of the particles of that dust."

So this is very nice. Bhakti-yoga. Simply surrender and pray. And that is the best and the highest type of yoga. If you accept this Bhagavad-gita, if you believe in this Bhagavad-gita, if you follow the footprints of great personalities who have followed this Bhagavad-gita, then your life is perfect. There is no doubt about it. Mahajano yena gataḥ; sa panthaḥ; [Cc. Madhya 17.186]. You cannot... Everyone is following the footprints of great personalities in every department of knowledge. Even scientific, scientists, they are also following the law of gravitation, basing their further progress on the law of gravitation. There are so many laws. How the laws are there they do not know, but that law is found out and scientific advancement is going on. So mahajano yena gataḥ; sa panthaḥ;. So as in the material field also we are following the great personalities and authorities, similarly, in spiritual realization, if you follow the great personalities... There are specifically mentioned, the great personalities in the Srimad-Bhagavatam. If you cannot find out who is great personality, the list is there. And who are they?

svayambhur naradaḥ; sambhuḥ;
kumaraḥ; kapilo manuḥ;
prahlado janako bhiṣmo
balir vaiyasakir vayam
[SB 6.3.20]

They're given there. Just like Prahlada Maharaja. Prahlada Maharaja is a great authority in the devotional service. A five-years-old boy, he was chanting Hare Krṣṇa. His only fault was that. His father became enemy. His father insistently wanted, "You stop this nonsense, Hare Krṣṇa." He would not. So the father wanted to kill him—put him into so many tortures. At last he came out successful, and he was blissful. So therefore he is mahajana. In spite of so much tortures by his father, he did not give it up. Similarly, if we stick to the principle, as it was done by great personalities, Brahma, Lord Siva, Narada, Prahlada Maharaja, Janaka Maharaja... Their stories, their life history is there everywhere in the Puraṇas.

So mahajano yena gataḥ; sa panthaḥ; [Cc. Madhya 17.186]. We have to accept the path of great personalities. Otherwise, if we want to understand the Absolute Truth simply by arguments and logic, oh it will never be achieved.

athapi te deva padambuja-dvaya-
prasada-lesanugrhita eva hi
janati tattvaṁ bhagavan-mahimno
na canya eko 'pi ciraṁ vicinvan
[SB 10.14.29]

The path of spiritual realization is for him who has a slight mercy of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Athapi te deva padambuja-dvaya-prasada-lesanugrhita. Prasada means mercy; lesa, a slight. If one has achieved a slight benediction of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, he can understand what he is. Na canya eko 'pi. And others, eko 'pi. Those who have not achieved that causeless mercy, na canya eko...ciraṁ vicinvan. For lives together, if they go on contemplating and meditating and speculating, it is not possible. It is not possible. Therefore Bhagavad-gita says, bahunaṁ janmanam ante [Bg. 7.19]. After such so-called meditation and so-called speculation... That is also valid, but it takes long, long, long way. They are not rejected, but our life is very short, especially in this age. Our intelligence is very short. We cannot perform real meditation. We cannot perform the preliminary activities. Yama niyama asana praṇayama. It is not possible at the present moment. So those principles are not rejected, but it is not possible at the present moment. Therefore Lord Caitanya says, harer nama harer nama harer namaiva kevalam [Cc. Adi 17.21]. As soon as you chant this transcendental vibration, Hare Krṣṇa, immediately the form of Krṣṇa is within yourself, without yourself. And here in the Bhagavad-gita the Lord says, anta-kale ca mam eva smaran muktva kalevaram [Bg. 8.5]. "One who at the time of death simply thinks of Me," smaran, "simply by remembering," muktva, "immediately he becomes liberated." Muktva kalevaram, yaḥ; prayati. "Anyone who passes away from this body..." So what is the result? Yaḥ; prayati sa mad-bhavam. Mad-bhavam means he gets the next body just like Krṣṇa. That means that sac-cid-ananda-vigraha [Bs. 5.1], eternal body, blissful life, and full of knowledge. Yaḥ; prayati sa mad...yati. He attains, yati. Nasty atra saṁsayaḥ; [Bg. 8.5]. Do not be doubtful. It is fact.

How it is fact? The next verse says... It is not a fact because somebody is thinking of Krṣṇa, he gets a body like Krṣṇa and goes to the Krṣṇa's abode. But it is the general rule. What is that? Yaṁ yaṁ vapi smaran bhavaṁ tyajaty ante kalevaram [Bg. 8.6]. Anyone, at the time of his death, the mind, being absorbed by some kinds of thought, so he gets the body. And there are instances. Just like Bharata Maharaja. Bharata Maharaja, he was a great king, but at an early age, only—he was only twenty-four years old—he gave up his kingdom. Bharata Maharaja means the king by whose name India is called Bharatavarṣa. Not only India—this whole planet was known as Bharatavarṣa. Gradually, it is declined. Just like recently we have partitioned, Pakistan. Similarly, the whole planet was known as Bharatavarṣa. So anyway, that Bharata Maharaja, at the time of his death, he had a pet deer. He thought of the deer and he became next life a deer. Therefore Lord Krṣṇa says that "It is not that because you think of Me you get a body like Me, but it is the general rule. If you think... At the time of your death, whatever you think, you carry the idea with your mind and you get the immediately a similar body." That means you are put into the womb of a mother to get a similar body. So instead of thinking of Krṣṇa always, if we think of our dog, as Bharata Maharaja was thinking of the deer, oh, there is risk of getting a dog's body.

yaṁ yaṁ vapi smaran bhavaṁ
tyajaty ante kalevaram
taṁ tam evaiti kaunteya...
[Bg. 8.6]

"My dear Arjuna, he gets a similar body," sada tad-bhava-bhavitaḥ;, "because he is always thoughtful of that particular body."

So this practice of Krṣṇa consciousness is sada tad-bhava-bhavitaḥ;. If you always think of Krṣṇa, naturally, you will think at the time of death Krṣṇa. And the result will be next life you get a body like Krṣṇa.

Thank you very much.

Devotees: Hare Krṣṇa.

Prabhupada: Any questions?

Devotee: I'm not sure that I understand the process by which one might be thinking of something in his mind, and how that soul is put into a body similar to what that thought is. In other words, how can the soul be subject to what the mind is thinking of?

Prabhupada: Because soul is now covered by the subtle body and the gross body. When the gross body stops to work... Just like at night the gross body is lying, but the subtle body mind is working. Therefore you are dreaming. The subtle body is working. So when you give up this body, your subtle body, mind, intelligence, that carries you very fine. Just like the flavor is carried by the air. If the air passes on some rose trees, the air becomes flavored like rose. There is no rose, but the flavor is there. Similarly, the flavor of your mentality, the flavor of your understanding, is carried. That is the subtle body. And you get a similar body. Therefore at the time of death the examination is tested, how one has advanced in Krṣṇa consciousness. The best thing is... It is said in the next verse, tasmat sarveṣu kaleṣu [Bg. 8.7]. Krṣṇa says, tasmat sarveṣu... [break] ...of death you are transferred to a body like Krṣṇa in the abode of Krṣṇa.

Indian man: Supposing there is a person who is not Krṣṇa conscious during his life, but at the time of death he becomes Krṣṇa conscious. Then what his body...?

Prabhupada: He goes to Krṣṇa.

Indian man: So that we can perform bad actions during our life and only at...

Prabhupada: Yes, if you are so fortunate... Just like Ajamila. Throughout the whole life he committed all sinful acts. But when he was at the point of death... He had a pet child whose name was Narayaṇa. So he was calling, "My dear boy Narayaṇa." So when he was calling Narayaṇa, he thought of Narayaṇa. So immediately he achieved Narayaṇa.

Indian man: But don't you think it is a contradiction that if a man is a bad throughout his life and only at the time of death he thinks of Krṣṇa and gets...?

Prabhupada: No. That history of Ajamila is different. In his childhood he was a son of a brahmaṇa. He was faithfully discharging the duties of a brahmaṇa. But accidentally, when he was young... He was married also. Accidentally, when he was young he was passing on the road and some sudra girl and boy were embracing and kissing, and he became attracted. And he became attracted by the prostitute. And he left home, wife, and everything, and then he became a great dacoit and smuggler, and everything he did. But... And he had so many children. Youngest was Narayaṇa. So at the time of death..., because generally, people become attached to the youngest son, so he was calling "Narayaṇa." But he remembered, "Oh, that Narayaṇa." Reference to the context. As soon as he called Narayaṇa... In his boyhood he served Narayaṇa under the direction of his father, so he remembered Narayaṇa. Therefore it is not always possible, but therefore in the Bhagavad-gita it is said, svalpam apy asya dharmasya trayate mahato bhayat. If somebody has executed devotional service even a little bit, oh, it may be, it can save him from the greatest danger.

Devotee: I don't understand. I don't see how man in one life can achieve a level of consciousness that he could sit with Krṣṇa. Don't you have to go through a change, I mean, according to what you do in your life? Don't you either have to be elevated, stay the same, or return...?

Prabhupada: Yes. That elevation you can achieve immediately simply by changing your consciousness. What do you mean by elevation? A man is called uneducated and another man is called very learned. What is that? He has practiced how to become educated. That's all. Similarly you practice. Here is the practice. And you become elevated. There is no, I mean to say, impediment. Anyone can elevate himself immediately. There is no question of waiting. Because the process of change is going on. If you accept the change immediately, and then you follow, you become elevated.

Guest: If a person experiences difficulty attaining a level of consciousness of God, how to counteract that?

Prabhupada: Yes. Difficulty is there always. Even you go to a school there are so many difficulties. But if you practice with vow and rigidity, you become successful. Difficulties may be there. In every field of our activities there are difficulties. You cannot say... This world is full of difficulties. So difficulties may be there, but you have to struggle against the difficulties and you have to adopt the process. Then your difficulties will be over. It is not that "Because there is difficulty I shall refrain from it." No. Adau sraddha tataḥ; sadhu-saṅgo 'tha bhajana-kriya tato 'nartha... [Cc. Madhya 23.14-15]. These are process. Just like you have come here with some sraddha, with some faith: "Oh, here is Krṣṇa consciousness. Let me sit down. Let me hear." This is the preliminary stage. If you become little serious, then you come daily and try to understand what is this. This is called sadhu-saṅga [Cc. Madhya 22.83]. Then, gradually, as these boys, they offered themselves, "Swamiji, I want to be your regular student, initiate." Third stage. Adau sraddha tataḥ; sadhu-saṅgo 'tha bhajana-kriya [Cc. Madhya 23.14-15]. And if he follows the rules and regulation, gradually the difficulties are over. Anartha-nivrttiḥ; syat. And when the difficulties are over, then he gets faith—tato niṣṭha. He gets taste—tato ruciḥ;. Athasaktiḥ;, then attachment. Then bhava, ecstasy, and the highest perfection after that. So difficulty may be there. We are in difficulties, this material life. But we have to come over. That is required. It is not that you cannot come over the difficulties. In every step of our life there are difficulties. The material life is like that. Padaṁ padaṁ yad vipadam [SB 10.14.58]. In every step there is danger. It is a place like that. Even if you are comfortable in a nice car, you are going, oh, there may be any moment accident. Even you are sitting here, there may be accident. So difficulties, this world is full of difficulties. One who does not understand this difficult position, he's a fool. If one thinks that "I am very comfortable," then he's a fool. This is animal life, just as animal thinks, "Oh, I am very comfortable. I am very nice." And dissatisfaction is human life. He's not happy unless he gets the greatest happiness. That is human life. And if he thinks, "Yes, I am well off. I am very happy," then he is animal. Because there is no happiness here. Full of distress. Full of miseries. How he says that "I am happy"? That means he is ignorant. So difficulties are there. You have to work out. That is the problem.

Madhavi-lata: Swamiji, in last night's initiation you gave me my spiritual name. Could you tell me tonight what that name means?

Prabhupada: You have forgotten? (chuckles) Madhavi-lata. Why don't you like it? Madhavi-lata.

Jaduraṇi: She asked what it means, Swamiji. She asked what it means.

Prabhupada: Madhavi-lata. Oh, Madhavi-lata is a plant which was very much liked by Krṣṇa, Madhavi-lata. It is a flower plant, Madhavi-lata, and Krṣṇa and Radha used to take pleasure underneath that plant. So anything related with Krṣṇa is Krṣṇa. Any other question?

Devotee or Guest: I have a question about the, taking a body of Krṣṇa after death if you're thinking of Krṣṇa at the time of death, or taking the body of a dog or a deer if you're thinking about that sort of thing when you die. There must be different kinds of taking of a body, because there are different kinds of bodies. The bodies of dogs and deers and things are not the same as the body of Krṣṇa. Now, how do you take on this form of Krṣṇa?

Prabhupada: By thinking of Krṣṇa.

Guest: No, what I mean is how does the soul assume this form? How does it become...

Prabhupada: Not become Krṣṇa. Just like you are spirit soul. When you take the body of a certain type of body, you act according to the body. Just like the dog is acting differently

from human body because he has got a different body. Hog is acting differently because he has got a different body. So there are 8,400,000's of different bodies. So mad-bhava, mad-bhava means the nature, Krṣṇa's nature. You keep your individuality, but you get Krṣṇa's nature. And what is Krṣṇa's nature? Krṣṇa's nature is always blissful. Anandamayo 'bhyasat (Vedanta-sutra 1.1.12). Always joyful. So you get a body of joyful, full of knowledge, and eternal. Not that you become Krṣṇa. You get exactly the same bodily constitution as Krṣṇa has got. That is sac-cid-ananda-vigrahaḥ; [Bs. 5.1]. As we are, even at the present moment, we are particle Krṣṇa. Krṣṇa is vibhu, the whole. We are aṇu, we are small. Similarly, as now we have got this material body, if we pass our life in Krṣṇa consciousness, we get our spiritual body, which is not different from the soul. A clear example: just like a man put into the water is raised from the water and placed in the land. So in the land he is happy. Similarly, because we are spirit soul, we are in a very unfavorable condition of this material world. As soon as we perfect ourself in Krṣṇa consciousness, we get into the spiritual platform or body or atmosphere.

Guest: I have one more question. If in taking on a body like Krṣṇa we assume a nature like Krṣṇa's nature...

Prabhupada: Yes.

Guest: When you say taking on the body of a dog or a cat or a pig or whatever, is this also... Do you mean literally a body like a pig, or do you mean the nature of a pig or dog or cat?

Prabhupada: No. Here the body and the soul different. The soul is spirit, and the body is matter. But when you attain a body like Krṣṇa's, that means that is spiritual body. There is no difference between the soul and the body. Here there is difference between soul and body. But in the spiritual world there is no difference between soul and body.

Guest (2): Swami, are we now... Are we all part of Krṣṇa and at the time of death if we think of Krṣṇa, like we become what? Like meshed in with Krṣṇa? Like now we're, say, suspended within Krṣṇa. But at the time of death, if we think of Him we merge. Is that what you're saying?

Prabhupada: Yes. You merge means you merge into the spiritual existence, but that does not mean you lose your individuality. You are already merged in the matter. We are all merged. Now your soul, my soul, his soul, you cannot distinguish where is the soul. But body, the material body, we have got everyone. But in spite of our being merged in the matter, we have got our individuality. Similarly, to become merged in spiritual existence does not mean that we lose our individuality. Try to understand. Just like we are all merged into the matter. If you dissect my body, you won't find where is that small particle spirit. It is already merged, but still, we have got individuality. That means spirit soul is individual. Otherwise, so far your body is concerned, my body is concerned, there is blood, you have got blood; you have got muscle, I have got muscle; you have got bones, I have got bones. What is the difference? But why you are individual, I am individual? Because the spirit soul is individual. We are merged in the matter but we keep our individuality. Similarly, you merge in the spirit, you keep your individuality. How can you lose your individuality?

Guest (2): Yes.

Prabhupada: No?

Guest (2): Your individuality, you mean?

Prabhupada: Yes. You are individual always. Just try to understand your present position. Yes. You are merged in the matter. I am merged into the matter. But still you keep your individuality, I keep my individuality. Similarly, when you merge in the spirit, why the individuality should be stopped? Only difference is, at the present moment the soul and the matter, they qualitatively different. And when you get spiritual body, the quality of the body and the soul is the same. But individuality must continue. How can you stop individuality? But that individuality and this individuality is different. In that individuality there is no disagreement. In this individuality there is always disagreement. Therefore in spite of individuality, there is oneness.

So individuality will continue. There is... If there is no display of individuality, then you'll have to come back again to this display of individuality in the material world. Because everyone... Individual means he has got his own choice. If I tell you that "You can come here, but you haven't got any choice," then you won't like to sit down here. You can sit down here, you can go out immediately. That's your choice. But if I make the condition that "You can sit down here without your choice," oh, you will hate to come here. "Oh, I don't care for your meeting." That is individuality. But that choice may be very nice, and that choice may be very bad. That is different thing. But you have got your choice. That is individuality. So in the spiritual world the choice is there to serve Krṣṇa. Somebody is thinking, "I shall serve Krṣṇa like this." Somebody is thinking, "I shall love Krṣṇa like this." The choice is there. The individuality is there. But the center is Krṣṇa. Therefore there is no disagreement.

Just like in this world there may be dozens of parties. They may fight with one another, but the center is nationalism. Therefore those parties are not null and void. They're accepted by the government. They may be fighting with one another with aims and objects, but because their point is nationalism, they are accepted. There is the agreement. Similarly, in the service of Krṣṇa, there may be individuality, the choice of individuality may be, but the center being Krṣṇa, that is absolute. There are many authoritative books, means Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu, Caitanya-caritamrta, Priti-sandarbha. But generally, if you simply try to understand Bhagavad-gita as it is, without any malinterpretation, then you get all information of these things.

Just like here Krṣṇa advises, yudhya ca mam anusmara: [Bg. 8.7] "You go on fighting. Because you cannot stop your fighting because you are a soldier." But mam anusmara, "At the same time you think of Me." This is the secret, that nobody can stop his activities, but he can think of Krṣṇa at the same time. This is Krṣṇa consciousness. I have given several times the example that a woman who is in love with other man in spite of her husband, she is very mindful to the household duties, but she is always thinking, "When at night I shall meet with my friend?" Yudhya ca mam anusmara [Bg. 8.7]. Apparently, she is very busy, very nicely she's performing her household duties, but at mind, oh, she is always thinking of the lover, when she will meet. As it is possible, why not Krṣṇa? Is it very difficult? Meditation, perfect meditation. Always, twenty-four hours. You cannot forget Krṣṇa. Just like a lover cannot forget beloved. So you have to contact Krṣṇa in love, then the meditation continues for twenty-four hours.

Bhaktijana: The Indian poet, Rabindranath Tagore, is he nice? Do you know Rabindranath Tagore?

Prabhupada: Yes, why not.

Bhaktijana: Is he a nice poet?

Prabhupada: He is nice poet from materialistic point of view. That's all. To satisfy the materialistic person. He is not a nice poet from spiritualistic point of view. We have nothing to do with him. (chuckles) We have to do with the poet like Vyasadeva. Don't you see how nicely he has written Srimad-Bhagavatam? There is no comparison, even from the literary point of view. He is perfect poet. Lokasyajanato vidvaṁs cakre satvata-saṁhitam, anarthopasamaṁ sakṣad bhakti-yogam adhokṣaje, lokasya ajanataḥ;... [SB 1.7.6]. People do not know this, that to get out of the clutches of maya, all this nonsense, the only thing is bhakti-yogam. And people do not know it. Lokasyajanato vidvaṁs cakre satvata-saṁhitam. The greatest poet, vidvan, learned Vyasadeva, has written this Bhagavatam. So he is the greatest poet.

Devotee: Swamiji, while it's true that anyone who thinks of Krṣṇa as he is dying can take on the body of Krṣṇa, is it not true that if you don't spend your life thinking of Krṣṇa, it may be difficult at the time of death to remember Him because of attachment?

Prabhupada: Certainly. If you don't practice, then at the time of examination, certainly you'll fail. (chuckles) If you say, "All right. I shall see in the examination hall. I shall write everything nice," that is nonsense. You have to study nicely before the examination. Therefore it is said, yudhya ca mam anusmara [Bg. 8.7]. Practice it. Abhyasa-yoga-yuktena. What is yoga? Yoga means practice. Abhyasa-yoga-yuktena cetasa nanya-gamina [Bg. 8.8]. Yoga means you do not allow your mind to go anywhere else. Just try to engage. Sa vai manaḥ; krṣṇa-padaravindayoḥ; [SB 9.4.18]. Always fix up in Krṣṇa. That is the highest type of yoga. All right. Question finished? Let us chant. (end)

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