Pradyumna: "O Partha, how can a person who knows that the soul is indestructible, unborn, eternal and immutable kill anyone or cause anyone to kill?"

"As a person puts on new garments, giving up old ones, similarly, the soul accepts new material bodies, giving up the old and useless ones."

Prabhupada:

vedavinasinaṁ nityaṁ
ya enam ajam avyayam
kathaṁ sa puruṣaḥ; partha
kaṁ ghatayati hanti kam
[Bg. 2.21]

vasaṁsi jirṇani yatha vihaya
navani grhṇati naro 'paraṇi
tatha sariraṇi vihaya jirṇany
anyani saṁyati navani dehi
[Bg. 2.22]

So this is another way of convincing that... Very simple thing. Anyone can understand. Vasaṁsi jirṇani yatha vihaya. As our garments, coats and shirts, when they are old, rotten, no more usable, so we throw it away and get a new garment, shirt, coat. Similarly, the soul is changing garment from childhood, from babyhood. Just like a baby has got a shoe, but when he gets the child's body the shoe does not fit. You have to take another shoe. Similarly, when the same child grows or changes body, he requires another shoe. Similarly, the soul is changing his body exactly as we change our garments. Vasaṁsi jirṇani. Jirṇani means when it is old enough, not fit for use, yatha vihaya, as we give it up... Vihaya means give it up. Navani, new garment. Naraḥ; aparaṇi grhṇati. Now the body has been compared herein as the garment. Just like coat and shirt. The tailor cuts the coat according to the body. Similarly, this material body, if it is shirt and coat, then this is cut according to the spiritual body. The spiritual body is not nirakara, without form. If it is without form, then how the garment, the coat and shirt, has got hands and legs? It is common sense. The coat has got hand or the pant has got legs because the person who is using the coat, he has got hands and legs.

So this proves that the spiritual body is not impersonal. It is not a zero, it is, it has got form. But the form is so minute, aṇor aṇiyan mahato mahiyan: one form is lesser than the atom. Aṇor aṇiyan mahato mahiyan. Two forms are there spiritual. One is the Supreme Lord's form, viraḍ-rupa, mahato mahiyan, and our form, aṇor aṇiyan, lesser than the atom. That is stated in the Kaṭha Upaniṣad. Aṇor aṇiyan mahato mahiyan atmasya jantor nihito guhayam. Nihito guhayam, guhayam means in the heart. Both of them are there. Now find out modern science. Both the soul and the Supersoul, they are situated within the heart. Isvaraḥ; sarva-bhutanaṁ hrd-dese [Bg. 18.61]. It is not said that "Anywhere in the body it is sitting." No. Hrd-dese, in the heart. And actually, by medical science, the heart is the center of all activities of the body, office. And the brain is the manager. The director is there, Krṣṇa. He says also in another place, sarvasya cahaṁ hrdi sanniviṣṭaḥ;. Everything is clear. Sarvasya cahaṁ hrdi sanniviṣṭaḥ;, "I am sitting in everyone's heart." Find out God, find out Krṣṇa. In several places, all Vedic literature, guhayam. Guhayam means in the heart. Sarvasya cahaṁ hrdi sanniviṣṭo mattaḥ; smrtir jñanam apohanaṁ ca [Bg. 15.15]. The supreme director, Krṣṇa, is sitting there, and He is directing, "Now this living entity wants to fulfill his desire in this way." He's giving direction to the material nature. "Now, prepare a vehicle, body, for this rascal in this way. He wants to enjoy. All right, let him enjoy." This is going on. We are all rascals, we are manufacturing our different ways of life. "I think." So you are thinking. As soon as you are thinking... But we cannot fulfill our desires without sanction of God. That is not possible. But because we are persisting, that "I want to fulfill my desire in this way," Krṣṇa is sanctioning, "All right." Just like a child persists to possess something. The father gives, "All right, take it." So all these bodies we are getting, although by the sanction of the Supreme Lord, but He is sanctioning with reluctance that "Why this rascal is wanting like this?" This is our position. Therefore, at last Krṣṇa says, sarva-dharman parityajya, [Bg. 18.66] "Give up this rascaldom, 'I want this body, I want that body, I want to enjoy life in this way'—give up all this nonsense."

So here in the Vedic literatures we find that both the Lord and the living entity, they are situated in the heart. The living entity, jiva, is desiring, and the master is sanctioning, and the prakrti or the material nature is giving the body. "Here is the body, ready, sir. Come here." Therefore the original cause of our entanglement or liberation is our desire. As we are desiring. If you want, if you desire to become free from this implication of birth, death, old age, and disease, it is ready. And if you want to continue this implication, change of body, vasaṁsi jirṇani... Because you cannot enjoy spiritual life in this material body. You can enjoy this material world with this material body. And if you want to enjoy spiritual life, then you have to enjoy in spiritual body. But as we have no information of the spiritual life, spiritual enjoyment, we are simply desiring to enjoy this world. Punaḥ; punas carvita-carvaṇanam [SB 7.5.30], chewing the chewed. The same sex, the same man and woman, they are enjoying at home. The same again go to the naked dance. The object is the same, sex, here or there. But they are thinking, "If I go to the theater or naked dancing, it will be very enjoyable." So it is called punaḥ; punas carvita-carvaṇanam [SB 7.5.30], chewing the chewed. The same sex life at home, chewing, and go to the naked club, chewing. Chewing the chewed. There is no rasa. There is no humor, mellow; therefore they are disappointed. Because the thing is the same. Just like you chew one sugarcane and take out the juice, and again if you chew, then what you will get? But they are so dull-headed, so rascal, they do not know. They are trying to get the, I mean to say, pleasure which is already enjoyed, which is already tasted. Punaḥ; punas carvita-carvaṇanam [SB 7.5.30]. Adanta-gobhir visataṁ tamisraṁ punaḥ; punas carvita-carvaṇanam. A human being... You'll find that when the dogs, they have sex life, they have no shame. So, many lusty people stand there and see. Seeing means they are willing, "If I could enjoy in the street like this." And sometimes they do. This is going on. Punaḥ; punas carvita-carvaṇanam [SB 7.5.30].

Yan maithunadi grhamedhi sukhaṁ hi tuccham [SB 7.9.45]. So this materialistic life means sex life. Very, very abominable, tuccham. If anyone has understood this, then he's liberated. But if, when one is still attracted, then it is to be understood that there is still delay in liberation. And one who has understood and has left it, even in this body he's liberated. He's called jivan-muktaḥ; sa ucyate.

iha yasya harer dasye
karmaṇa manasa gira
nikhilasv apy avasthasu
jivan-muktaḥ; sa ucyate

So how we can become free from this desire? Iha yasya harer dasye, If you simply desire to serve Krṣṇa, then you can get out. Otherwise, not. That is not possible. If you desire anything else except the service of the Lord, then maya will give you inducement, "Why not enjoy this?" Therefore Yamunacarya says,

yad-avadhi mama cetaḥ; krṣṇa-padaravinde
nava-nava-rasa-dhamany udyataṁ rantum asit
tad-avadhi bata nari-saṅgame smaryamane
bhavati mukha-vikaraḥ; suṣṭhu niṣṭhivanaṁ ca

"Yad-avadhi, since the time, mama cetaḥ;, I have engaged my life and soul, my consciousness, in the service of the lotus feet of Krṣṇa..." This verse is given by Yamunacarya. He was a great king, and kings, they are generally licentious, but he became later on a saintly devotee. So his personal experience, he is saying, that "Since I have engaged my mind in the service of the lotus feet of Krṣṇa, yad-avadhi mama cetaḥ; krṣṇa-padaravinde..." Nava-nava. And service, spiritual service means every moment new. It is not hackneyed. Those who are spiritually realized, they will find to serve Krṣṇa means new enlightenment, new enlightenment. Nava-nava-rasa-dhamany udyataṁ rantum asit. Here, in this material world, you enjoy. It becomes hackneyed. Punaḥ; punas carvita; therefore you are disappointed. But if you engage yourself in the service of Krṣṇa, you'll find new and new encouragement. That is spiritual. If you find it hackneyed, then you must know that you are not yet serving spiritually, you are serving materially. Formality, stereotype. But if you feel new and new energy, then you know that you are serving spiritually. This is the test. Your enthusiasm will increase, not decrease.

So the test is within our hand. If during maṅgala-arati we feel laziness, that means I'm not yet spiritually advanced. And if one feels enthused, "Now it is time for maṅgala-arati, let me stand up, let me do this," then it is spiritual. Anyone can test. Bhaktiḥ; paresanubhavo viraktir anyatra syat [SB 11.2.42]. Bhakti means spiritual. So as soon as you are touched with the Supreme Spirit, viraktir anyatra syat, no more enjoyment in this material world. So Krṣṇa is there. Krṣṇa is also sitting within the heart, and I am also sitting within the heart, just like two friends on the same bar. This is also described in the Upaniṣad. Samane vrkṣe puruṣo nimagnaḥ;. They are sitting, equally, on the same level. Nimagnaḥ;. The bird is eating the fruit of the tree, or the jiva soul, the living entity, he is making his fruitive action. Kṣetra-jña. These are all described. Kṣetra-jñaṁ capi maṁ viddhi sarva-kṣetreṣu bharata [Bg. 13.3]. The owner and the occupier. I am the occupier of this body, and the owner is Krṣṇa. Therefore, Krṣṇa's another name is Hrṣikesa. Hrṣikesa. So He is actually owner of my hand and leg and eyes, everything, all my senses. I am simply occupier. I'm not owner. That we have forgotten. Just like if you are in a rented apartment, you are occupier. You are given the license to occupy the room. You are not owner. But if you think that you are owner, that is, stena eva sa ucyate [Bg. 3.12], immediately he becomes wrongly guided.

So take it, this body or the country or the nation or the world or the universe, nothing belongs to you. The owner is Krṣṇa. The owner is sarva-loka-mahesvaram [Bg. 5.29]. Krṣṇa says, "I am the owner." So mistake is that we do not know the owner, and we are, although we have occupied, improperly using our occupation. That is material condition. Improper. Otherwise, the direction is there, the director is sitting there. He's always helping you. But the disease is that we are claiming to be owner and want to act according to my whims, and that is material condition. My business is to work for the owner, not for me. Therefore, that is my position. Krṣṇa has created me, not creation, but along with Krṣṇa we are all there. But we are eternal servants. Just like along with this body, the finger is also born. The finger is not differently born. When I was born, my fingers were born. Similarly, when Krṣṇa was there, Krṣṇa was never born. Then we are also never born. Na hanyate hanyamane sarire [Bg. 2.20]. Very simple philosophy. Because we are part and parcel of Krṣṇa. If Krṣṇa is born, then I am born. If Krṣṇa is not born, then I'm, I am not born. Krṣṇa is aja, so we are also aja. Ajam avyayam Krṣṇa is imperishable, immutable. We are also immutable, because we are part and parcel of God. So why the part and parcels are there? Why my hand is there? Because I require it. I require the assistance of my hand, I require the assistance of my finger. It is necessary. The rascals say, "Why God created us?" Rascal, it is necessary. Because He is God, He wants your service. Just like big man, he keeps so many servants. If some rascal inquires, "Why you are keeping so many servants?" And "Because I am big man, I want!" Simple philosophy. Similarly, if God is the supreme authority, then He must have so many assistants. Otherwise, how He will manage?

So whole universe is being managed by God's assistant, according to the Brahma, the most powerful assistant. Tene brahma hrda ya adi-kavaye muhyanti yat surayaḥ; [SB 1.1.1]. In the Brahma's heart also, tene brahma hrda, hrda, again hrda. Because Brahma was alone, so what to do? Brahma was perplexed. But Krṣṇa gave instruction, "You do, you create this universe like this." Buddhi-yogaṁ dadami tam, "I give intelligence." So everything is there. Everything is there, Krṣṇa is always with you. If you want to go back to home, back to Godhead, then Krṣṇa is ready to give you all instruction. "Yes, yena mam upayanti te." He gives instruction, "Yes, you do like this. Then you will finished, your, this material business, and after giving up this body, you'll come to Me." But if you want to continue this material existence, then vasaṁsi jirṇani yatha vihaya [Bg. 2.22], you have to accept one body; and when it is no more usable, then you have to give up this body and accept another body. This is continuation of material existence. But if you want to end it, if you are actually disgusted with this kind of business, bhutva bhutva praliyate [Bg. 8.19], take birth once, again die, again take. But we are so shameless and so rubbish that we are not very much disgusted with this business. We want to continue, and therefore Krṣṇa is also ready: "All right, you continue." That is stated in the Bhagavad-gita, yantraruḍhani mayaya.

isvaraḥ; sarva-bhutanaṁ
hrd-dese 'rjuna tiṣṭhati
bhramayan sarva-bhutani
yantraruḍhani mayaya
[Bg. 18.61]

Very clear. Krṣṇa knows your desire, that if you want still to enjoy this material world, "All right, enjoy." So for enjoying different kinds of enjoyment, we require different kinds of instrument. So Krṣṇa prepares you, so kind, "All right." Just like the father gives a toy, the child wants a motorcar. "All right, take a toy motorcar." He wants a engine, he wants to become a railway man. Now these kinds of toys were(?) there. Similarly Krṣṇa is supplying these toy bodies Yantra, yantra means machine. This is a machine. Everyone understands this is a machine. But who has supplied the machine? The machine is supplied by nature, material ingredients, but it is prepared under the order of Krṣṇa. Mayadhyakṣeṇa prakrtiḥ; suyate sa-caracaram [Bg. 9.10]. "Prakrti, nature, is preparing all these things under My direction."

So where is the difficulty to understand Krṣṇa consciousness? Everything is there in the Bhagavad-gita. If you diligently study and try to understand, you remain fully Krṣṇa conscious always. Everything is there. What is my position, how I am working, how I am dying, how I am getting body, how I am wandering. Everything is detail is there. Simply one has to become little intelligent. But we remain unintelligent, rascal, because we are associating with rascals. These rascal philosopher, religionists, avatara, bhagavan, swami, yogis, and karmis. Therefore we have become rascals. Sat-saṅga chaḍi kainu asate vilasa. Narottama dasa Ṭhakura therefore regrets that "I gave up the association of the devotees. I simply associate with these all rascals." Asat, asat-saṅga. Te karaṇe lagile mora karma-bandha-phaṅsa: "Therefore I have become entangled in this repetition of birth and death." Te karaṇe. "So give up this." Caṇakya Paṇḍita also says, tyaja durjana-saṁsargam, "Give up the association of these rascals." Bhaja sadhu-samagamam, "Only associate with devotees." This will be the right. We are establishing different centers, not for sense enjoyment, but for good association of devotees. If we miss this, those who are working, those who are managers of this institution, they must always know that we cannot make this institution or this center as a brothel. There must be such management and or such arrangement that we must have always good association for advancement. That is required.

Thank you very much. (end)

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