Conversation with disciples of Chinmayananda and Shivananda Ashram
Bombay
22 Apr

Indian man (1): ...murti, Shivananda Ashram.

Prabhupada: That Pabai(?) Ashram?

Indian man (2): Tirtha Swami.

Indian man (1): Krishna Chaitanya Shivananda Ashram. Virendra(?). Shri Narayana Caitanya, he has Swami Krishna(?). He has come to London.

Prabhupada: Now people are taking our philosophy. So your mission also, preach in the same way. People will be benefited. The whole world is taking Bhagavad-gita as it is. Krsnas tu bhagavan svayam [SB 1.3.28]. Aham adir hi devanam [Bg 10.2]. Mattaḥ; parataram nanyat kiñcid asti... [Bg. 7.7]. Preach this. People will take it. This knowledge is there in India, and they require to be educated with this knowledge, and we have tried little bit, and they are accepting. Why don't you do that? They have taken. I said, "Here is Krsna, the Supreme Lord. You worship Him." Krsna says, man-mana bhava mad-bhakto mad-yaji mam. Why don't you teach this? Hm? You are not teaching this, that "Accept Krsna, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Always think of Him. Man-manaḥ;. Become a devotee. Offer Him obeisances." Why don't you teach this? Hm? What is the difficulty?

Indian man (2): Excuse me. I could not follow.

Prabhupada: Why don't you teach as Krsna wants? It is a plain word. Why you are teaching something else?

Indian man (2): Hare Krsna says you have to teach.

Prabhupada: Hm?

Indian man (2): You have to teach, Hare Krsna says. We have to follow all this...

Prabhupada: So how many krsna-bhaktas you have got? You see thousands. What you are teaching?

Indian man (1): Swamiji, our mission is to...

Prabhupada: Whatever your mission, I am talking of Bhagavad-gita. The many missions are there. I am not concerned with them. I am concerned with Krsna. Why don't you do that?

Indian man (3): We are here to take His message only.

Prabhupada: But who is taking your message? It is not effective. But here you see. They have taken message. They have dedicate their life for Krsna. You could not do so. The message must be effective. Otherwise, simply talking, what is the benefit?

Indian man (3): Swamiji, excuse me. I don't see any difference between the person to person.

Prabhupada: There is difference. Cat and dog, there is difference. An intelligent man and a rascal is difference. There must be difference. Catur-varnyam maya srsṭam guna-karma-vibhagasaḥ; [Bg. 4.13]. How you say there is no difference? A brahmana is brahmana. A ksatriya is ksatriya. Vaisya is vaisya. That is real understanding. If you say, "Everyone is brahmana," that's not good.

Indian man (3): But we have been told to see only one consciousness, one life, between indi...

Prabhupada: That oneness is on the spiritual platform. Brahma-bhutaḥ; prasannatma na socati na kanksati, samaḥ; sarvesu [Bg. 18.54]. That is another thing. But so long you have got a bodily concept of life, you must divide: catur-varnyam maya srsṭam guna-karma-vibhagasaḥ; [Bg. 4.13]. That is wanted. Just like in my body there is division. There is head. There is hand. There is leg. There is belly. So they have got different activities. The head is important. If you cut the head, then whole thing is finished.

Indian man (3): We need the substratum because of which we identify with the processes.

Prabhupada: Hm?

Indian man (3): We need the substratum because of which we see the differences.

Prabhupada: Difference is there in your body. Do you think the head and the leg the same thing?

Indian man (3): But certain occupation...

Prabhupada: No, no, I mean to say that you have to take work from the head and from the leg, but head and leg different. Sva-karmana tam abhyarcya [Bg. 18.46]. That is science. If you want to take the work of head from the leg, that is foolishness. Head must remain head, leg must remain leg, but you take the work of leg for walking; you take the work of the brain for thinking. That is wanted. Evasive is no good. So anyway, our mission is that Indians especially, they should take advantage of Bhagavad-gita—not by distorting the meaning. As it is. You cannot distort the statement of Bhagavad-gita. Then you defy the authority of Bhagavad-gita. You manufacture your own way. That is very bad. Then there is no authority. Sarvam etad rtam manye yad vadasi kesava [Bg. 10.14]. As Arjuna... "Whatever You say, I have accepted." That is the need, not that "I am very learned scholar; I can change the meaning." That is not good. You are not greater authority than Krsna. Thinking like that is foolishness. Krsna is authority. All the acaryas, Ramanujacarya, Madhvacarya, Krsna Caitanya Mahaprabhu, they have all accepted krsnas tu bhagavan svayam [SB 1.3.28]. How you can speak something else what, against what, the instruction of Krsna?

Indian man (3): What is the means by which we know what Gita says to us, Swamiji?

Prabhupada: Do you don't know what Gita says? Then why do you read Gita? Don't read.

Indian man (3): But there must be some means that you can adopt...

Prabhupada: No, no, you do know what Gita says. Do you know it? What Gita says, do you know it? You do not know?

Indian man (3): Swamiji, nobody knows Bhagavad-gita.

Prabhupada: Nobody knows! You do not know. We know. Why do you say, "Nobody knows"? You do not know. It is open secret. Sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam... [Bg. 18.66]. You do not know. But don't say that "Nobody knows." That is wrong impression. We know. You are blind. You do not like to know it. Everyone should know. What is the difficulty?

Indian man (3): No, Swamiji, I mean...

Prabhupada: No, I do not know what you mean. But you say, "Nobody knows." That is a wrong impression. Everyone knows. You do not know. That is my...

Indian man (2): Swamiji, we have been taught like this and, in fact, now we are convinced on that point. We are convinced.

Prabhupada: No, everyone knows, man-mana bhava mad-bhakto mad-yaji mam namaskuru [Bg. 18.65], sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam [Bg. 18.66]. These are open secret. What is the difficulty?

Indian man (3): Differences in meaning...

Prabhupada: You can take different meaning, but we do not take like that. We take Bhagavad-gita as it is.

Indian man (4): Swamiji, how do we know that that the meaning is distorted?

Prabhupada: Eh?

Indian man (4): How do we know that the meaning is distorted?

Prabhupada: Because you do not worship Krsna.

Indian man (4): Swami?

Prabhupada: Because you do not worship Krsna. It is plain fact. But we worship Krsna. In every temple, all over the world, 102 temples, we worship Krsna. But you don't worship Krsna.

Indian man (3): No, we worship all gods, Swamiji, irrespective of...

Prabhupada: Ah, that means avajananti mam muḍha manusim tanum asritam [Bg. 9.11], kamais tais tair hrta-jñanaḥ; yajante anya-devataḥ; [Bg. 7.20]. Hrta-jñanaḥ;, nasṭa-buddhayaḥ;.

Indian man (3): Swamiji, we are interested in...

Indian man (2): I think...

Prabhupada: Eh?

Indian man (3): Excuse me, Swamiji. We are interested in that one meaning which is the essence of the Indian culture. If we are wrong, we are ready to correct ourselves.

Prabhupada: No... You'll never correct yourself because you do not understand what is Bhagavad-gita. That is the difficulty. You say that "Nobody understands." You say.

Indian man (3): No, Swamiji...

Prabhupada: At least you do not understand.

Indian man (3): Please forgive me if I have given a wrong...

Prabhupada: At least you do not understand. That's all.

Indian man (2): Are we not, potentially, not to understand Bhagavad-gita, then?

Prabhupada: Everyone. What is the difficulty? But you understand in a different way. It is simple thing. Everyone understands. This is expected. But you understand in different way. That is difficulty. You create your own meaning.

Indian man (3): I request, Swamiji, on what basis we can say that it is a different meaning or distorted meaning and not the meaning which the Gita says...?

Prabhupada: Because you say that nobody knows. You say. And whatever meaning, that is in your mind, but you said nobody knows.

Indian man (5): No, that is quite mistaken talk.

Prabhupada: That mistake... Then what can I talk? It is mistake.

Indian man (3): I said nobody knows until he knows.

Prabhupada: So if one does not want to know, how he'll know?

Indian man (5): Whatever Swamiji says, that...

Prabhupada: Yeah. And Krsna says, sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam [Bg. 18.66]. Why don't you do that? Who has got the...?

Indian man (5): We want to be student. Sarva-dharman is word.

Prabhupada: That... That means you become student; hear me and you'll learn it. It is not the one minute's business.

Indian man (5): Somehow you can give some that, advice from you. But whatever...

Prabhupada: Advice... Well, you come here. Stay here. We shall teach you. Not that you have come here for five minutes—I have to teach you sarva-dharman...

Indian man (5): No, you don't have time.

Prabhupada: No, I have got time. So that's all right. You have to... You have to learn it.

Indian man (3): Swamiji, you bless ourselves in such a way that we will not...

Prabhupada: You have come. You are welcome here and take the blessings. But you won't come. When I say, "Come here and take the blessings," you won't come. What can I do? If one has fallen in the blind well—"Please get me up! Get me up!"—so I give him a rope: "Yes, catch it. I'll get you..." "No, no, I shall not catch." Without catching, there is no... So if you want to learn, come here. Stay. We shall teach you. That you won't do. Then how can I teach you? You learn from them. Just see these European and Americans, how they are... You have to learn from them by their behavior. These are American boys. Just see how they have tilaka, how they...

Indian man (3): No, Swamiji, we know Swamiji's tremendous work going on around the world.

Prabhupada: So if I can teach them, who did not know what is Krsna, I cannot teach you? I can teach you. But you won't take the teaching. That is the difficulty. Stubborn. That is difficulty.

Indian man (1): Swamiji, we have thrown ourself on his lap, Swamiji. There is... (indistinct) We have thrown ourselves, performed everything. We have left our home, everything.

Prabhupada: But what for?

Indian man (1): And he's our bread, and he's our... He'll look after us. That's all.

Prabhupada: What for? Srama eva hi kevalam.

Indian man (1): Everything...

Prabhupada: It is srama eva hi kevalam.

dharmaḥ; svanusṭhitaḥ; pumsam
visvaksena-kathasu yaḥ;
notpadayed yadi ratim
srama eva hi kevalam
[SB 1.2.8]

After leaving your home and everything, if you do not understand Krsna, srama eva hi kevalam—it is simple waste of time. If you want to waste your time, that's all...

Indian man (3): If Swamiji forgives me, I don't see... I have read Swamiji's...

Prabhupada: That is your blindness. You do not see the...

Indian man (3): I don't find any difference between Krsna consciousness and the concept of our Brahman.

Prabhupada: No, then you do not know what is Brahman, what is Krsna. That means you are not fully in knowledge.

Indian man (3): Accha... It is not a name, sir.

Prabhupada: It is clearly stated, brahmeti paramatmeti bhagavan iti sabdyate.

Indian man (6): Are we not catching only names and forms?

Prabhupada: You can do anything nonsense. Who cares for you? The sastra is there.

Indian man (6): Hari means knowledge(?). Vasudeva means...

Prabhupada: Yes. Yaḥ; sastra-vidhim... Yaḥ; sastra-vidhim utsrjya vartate kama-karataḥ; [Bg. 16.23]. This is in Gita. You do not know it. Na sa siddhim avapnoti. He'll never get success. Na sukham na param gatim. That is there. Here is sastra.

vadanti tat tattva-vidas
tattvam yaj jñanam advayam
brahmeti paramatmeti
bhagavan iti sab...
[SB 1.2.11]

You do not know.

Indian man (1): Swamiji, can't...

Prabhupada: No, don't waste my time.

Indian man (5): Swamiji, we have not come to waste. We have come here to take only your blessings.

Prabhupada: That's all. I cannot... I cannot waste my time in this way. We have got our sastras. We are following them. That's all. If you want, you learn here. Otherwise do your whatever you like. Let us alone. We have no difficulty. We are triumphant all over the world. That's all. Phalena pariciyate. We have to see by the result, not by talking. So thank you very much for your coming. Give them su...

Indian man (5): So please bless us.

Prabhupada: Hare Krsna. But if you are interested, you are welcome.

Indian man (3): Yes, Swamiji.

Indian man (6): When door is kept open, it is...

Prabhupada: Yes.

Indian man (6): ...very natural to come to you, Swamiji.

Prabhupada: Jaya.

Indian man (1): Really, Swamiji, bless...

Prabhupada: Jaya. Jaya. Aiye. (Hindi) (guests leave)

Tamala Krsna: Next time maybe we should deal with them?

Prabhupada: Hm?

Tamala Krsna: Is it all right that they are brought in, or should we talk to them?

Prabhupada: Yes, it is all right.

Tamala Krsna: Not necessary to bring these people.

Prabhupada: Distorting meaning.

Tamala Krsna: This... The thing is, their guru is nonsense, so he's attracted nonsense disciples. They want to be cheated and they have the cheating guru.

Prabhupada: They have come from Hawaii?

Tamala Krsna: Hawaii. Hawaii.(?)

Prabhupada: Oh, oh, that Hawaii program(?).

Tamala Krsna: Two of them are disciples of Shivananda Ashram in Hrishikesh, and three of them are from Swami Chin... They're Swami Chinmayananda's disciples. Swami Chinmayananda has this program. He advertises for getting young men. Now they're the second batch. They study different Vedas and Upanisads. (end)