Room Conversation
Bombay
26 Mar

Hari-sauri: ...for myself? That boy who was with me from Australia, I've sent him back this morning. He's gone back this morning. There is actually two or three major things going on there, so I have to try to get back as soon as possible. There is a purchase of the farm, eight hundred acre farm, which comes up in about seven or eight days, and then we have to consider whether to buy that building in Sydney. You've seen that picture already. And also there's a big court case coming up in Melbourne. The deprogramming thing is going on there also. But this time the court case is being pressed by... It's a civil case. The police wouldn't take it up. So the girl who was kidnapped, we are pressing charges, but through her against the parents. So this is going to be a big case also. So that's coming up in the end of April. So I have to see what the presentation is like and get more information from Adi-kesava and make sure that we will press it very strongly, the whole issue. Someone just sent a newspaper clipping about the whole thing. I expect to be going to Delhi in about two days, to try to speed up the process of getting a re-entry permit. Then once I do that, I can go on. (long pause) [break]

Giriraja: This evening, the chief guest is going to arrive at about a quarter to seven.

Prabhupada: Who is the chief guest?

Giriraja: His name is Dr. Dattrey.

Karttikeya Mahadevia: He's an (indistinct).

Giriraja: Yeah. He is supposed to be one of the leading doctors in India. Especially of heart, cardiology. So I also thought this would be a good night for Svarupa Damodara Prabhu to make his presentation, so that this leading doctor can also attend that.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Giriraja: And the television people are also supposed to come tonight, and show you and them the drama.

Prabhupada: When you have to go?

Aksayananda: The boys can leave at 6:15.

Karttikeya Mahadevia: We have enough time one hour. And K. K. Dattrey and I are working together in one association for the psychic surgery. He is the president, I am the vice-president, so I know him very well, personally.

Prabhupada: Cardiologist.

Karttikeya Mahadevia: Cardiologist. He was cardiologist to the president also. He is very well known. And he is utilizing yoga for reducing the blood pressure in the heart, asana and all those things. He is very much interested in yogic philosophy also. Yoga, haá¹­ha-yoga.

Svarupa Damodara: God conscious? Is he God conscious?

Karttikeya Mahadevia: I think so. He is a very open minded man to find out good things about anything, whether herbal medicine or yogasana.

Prabhupada: So after one hour we shall go?

Guest (1) (Indian man): And about these two people, Giriraja Prabhu and (indistinct) who are willing to come, I will take them whenever possible, in April-May or June-July.

Prabhupada: We have to take the proper... [break] ...is not good. You should avoid it.

Giriraja: I think it was Krsna's grace.

Prabhupada: Oh, yes.

Giriraja: Actually she is... Now the mayor, the mayor is scheduled for tomorrow, but he had agreed without checking his diary, and he has to come earlier, so what my idea is that he wants to come at five o'clock.

Prabhupada: So where he will be best.

Giriraja: Yes. So what I was thinking is that he could stop here for a few minutes and meet you. Actually his term expires on March 31st.

Prabhupada: When the chief minister or something like that?

Giriraja: Chief minister is coming on Tuesday, on Rama-navami.

Prabhupada: But I am going to Juhu on Monday, is it not?

Giriraja: Well, we were originally thinking you could go on Wednesday, but...

Prabhupada: Oh. If they have arranged. I do not know what is your arrangement.

Giriraja: Oh, I'll find out. (long pause)

Prabhupada: When you'll call Tamala Krsna?

Giriraja: Some of the newly elected members from the Janta party are coming back to Bombay today and tomorrow. So we will try to invite one of them.

Prabhupada: You say we have to go back to Juhu on... They say. [break] This is the center of mass movement.

Giriraja: Dr. Bigelow was also a heart specialist. You had that exchange of letters, this doctor in Canada. So he said that he felt that at the moment of death some particle or some force left the body which was not material and which could be called the soul, and he called upon theologians and scientists to research what is that thing that leaves the body and makes the body become dead.

Prabhupada: Instead of going on Monday, we shall go on Wednesday.

Tamala Krsna: Yes, that is fixed up now. I think Saurabha will be quite relieved. Srila Prabhupada, the turn-out at the pandal has been quite good. Many good class of people have been coming. So Giriraja Prabhu and Gopala Krsna Prabhu are thinking to extend the pandal on about another week, because there is not any extra costs more than about a thousand rupees, since the main cost is in actually building it. So Bhavananda Maharaja and myself felt that they could continue the pandal, and you wouldn't have to attend. Perhaps on the last day, which would be very big again, next Sunday, you could come. But they could, the devotees themselves could speak as they....

Prabhupada: I know that very nice. I want it may be possible for you.

Tamala Krsna: Yes.

Prabhupada: Why it should be closed?

Tamala Krsna: Yeah. You once told us in Delhi that if we could arrange to continue it throughout the year, that would be good.

Prabhupada: You want to do that, then do it. I don't mind. Every week, you can... At least...

Tamala Krsna: Yes. That means that we will have to send out regular invitation every week on a regular program to our life members.

Prabhupada: It is all right, you do it. We have got so much subject matter for speaking.

Tamala Krsna: So there will be an initiation on Rama-navami.

Prabhupada: Rama-navami is upavasa up till the... Go to observe fasting up to the evening.

Tamala Krsna: So moon.

Prabhupada: Sunset.

Tamala Krsna: Sunset, moonrise.

Prabhupada: Authorized.

Tamala Krsna: Caitanya Mahaprabhu, Lord Ramacandra, and Nrsimhadeva also? Those three.

Bhakti-caru: Srila Prabhupada, can I prepare this one? (indistinct) No.

Tamala Krsna: Sudama Maharaja's troupe will be performing Ramayana. They are starting to perform tonight the Ramayana. Tonight and continuing or through, as far as I know, till Rama-navami.

Prabhupada: I have taken six capaá¹­is.

Tamala Krsna: Six capaá¹­is!

Bhakti-caru: Do you require anything specific at night? Or that mungoli?(?)

Tamala Krsna: By starving you at night, Srila Prabhupada, your appetite in the noontime is becoming increased.

Prabhupada: No, I should not take at night. At night, a little milk and barley water. Light.

Tamala Krsna: Today we'll leave at twenty-five of seven instead of a quarter to seven. We'll arrive by seven at the pandal.

Giriraja: The thing is that the chief guest is reaching at a quarter to seven.

Tamala Krsna: So then we can leave at 6:30. So Dr. Svarupa Damodara will speak this evening, Srila Prabhupada. Would you like us to read from some book, or...

Giriraja: When do you want us to show a few slides, that slide presentation?

Svarupa Damodara: I think only just four or five explaining in terms of precedence. It's solid that way. The words are just empty. (indistinct) ...taking that way. Becomes more, er...

Tamala Krsna: Hari-katha, is it dark at 7:15?

Hari-katha: 7:15 is dark.

Tamala Krsna: It's dark. No, Svarupa Damodara Prabhu will lecture after the chief guest, but just before Srila Prabhupada. But by then it will be 7:30, quarter to eight.

Hari-katha: 7:30 definitely dark.

Tamala Krsna: So we can arrange for a slide show.

Svarupa Damodara: Also we can speak from slides.

Tamala Krsna: I think it's possible. (discussion about the slide show between devotees) [break]

Prabhupada: So if you combine together and go to any scientist, you challenge and prove scientifically. And still he sees it mistake. You do not know what is life's position, but we shall. Life is different. Yayedam dharyate jagat [Bg. 7.5]. Without life, this matter has no value. This room is well decorated, well furnished. Why? Yayedam dharyate jagat. Because the life is there. If there was no life, then who cares for Bombay? Heaps of stone, that's all. Who cares for it? So you do not know that particular item and try to convince them according to the modern scientific... Then we shall be triumphant. Everything. Everything. Challenge these rascals, that "You have got power and you will get more power by serving Krsna." Your presentation was very nice.

Svarupa Damodara: Prabhupada's mercy.

Prabhupada: What Dr. Dattrey says, after hearing your lecture?

Svarupa Damodara: Many..., some engineers came, and some doctors also came. They wanted us speak in Bombay Hospital. And just now also I got a letter from England from Jagadguru Swami. He said that on our way to the United States we should stop in England. He says that he talked something about Bhaktivedanta Institute in England. He said we should speak in Oxford and Cambridge Universities. He said there is a very good preaching background there. So he invited us to...

Prabhupada: You will be invited. You stick to your position and train up your assistants and recruit more and more. We shall come out successful. Write books. You can take. Now yesterday Dr. Dattrey, did he say anything?

Svarupa Damodara: He didn't say much, but Dr. Sharma, he was discussing, and he was telling that he will definitely make an arrangement in Bombay Hospital for us to speak. But he was very impressed. And some life members came later on when the greeting of the pandal was finished. And some engineers also. They want to discuss something today also.

Prabhupada: Recruit them. And speak in such societies. We have now our prestige and preaching. It will be very nice honor everywhere. So Krsna has given you some talent. Utilize it. These rascals are misleading. Although the instruction is there, they are misinterpreting in their own way, misleading themselves and misleading others. They say the name of God. They do not know what is God, although God is explaining Himself. Such a rascal. God is explaining, "Here, I'm God." He is accepted, and they do not... When you ask them what is God: "That we do not know. Our God is (indistinct)." Such things are there. So they have to be convinced that these half-educated leaders cannot make you happy. It is not possible. They do not know the basic principle of life. Take guidance from Krsna. That is our movement. You'll be happy. And don't be carried away by the whims. This is an important chance, human life. These motorcars are running, they are running just like the flies come, phut phut phut phut. That is described in the Bhagavad-gita, Eleventh Chapter. Blind. Expedite death, that's all. There is no solution. The solution is here, Krsna consciousness. So recruit first of all. Just like these doctor friends. First of all get some friends.

Svarupa Damodara: Bala-krsna told me that we have doctor, medical doctor, M.B.V. He's from Russia. He is going to join us.

Giriraja: Yeah, Dr. Sharma. He lives on Hare Krsna Land. He's an Indian who took his degree in Alaska and he has two sister-in-laws also who took their doctor's degree in Moscow, and they have great faith in Krsna.

Prabhupada: Make them come, make them come. Treat them nicely. Give them good place. In this way increase the number of workers. Then people will, "Oh... They are not religious sentiments. They have got books, they have got scientists, they have got doctors." Is it not? And we can challenge them. "Come on, what is our education, let us test. We are prepared to talk with you like scientists." So you are all here now and... Organize in Bombay. Bombay, the center of Bhaktivedanta Institute.

Svarupa Damodara: A few students came day before yesterday from Bombay University.

Prabhupada: Let them come.

Svarupa Damodara: They wanted to study in Bhaktivedanta Institute.

Prabhupada: Very good. Give them good place. We don't want tenants or... Turn the whole building into Bhaktivedanta Institute. And another building start. Yes. We have got enough place. I want that the intelligent man should come and learn this science. That is wanted.

yad yad acarati sresá¹­has
tat tad evetaro janaḥ;
sa yat pramanam kurute
lokas tad anuvartate
[Bg. 3.21]

These people. Bring important men, important student. Take this opportunity. Give them nice place so that they may not be uncomfortable. Give them good food.

Giriraja: Yes. We have a lot of facility.

Prabhupada: Then there should not be any scarcity for their comfort. People are trained up to the modern comforts. Therefore I am building so big, big institution. Otherwise, I... That's a fact. Radha-Damodara temple is sufficient for me. It is not for me I want these big, big buildings. I am accustomed to live anywhere. But those who are educated, scientists, they are accustomed, Europeans, Americans... They must be given proper place. That was my Guru Maharaja's policy. Not that all of a sudden they should now live on the floor. No, that's not possible. Then they will be disturbed. Give them nice place, give them nice food, nice instruction. You are all intelligent boys. Do it immediately. Another building construct. That colony should be for first-class Krsna conscious people, to preach. So Gargamuni, you also help.

Gargamuni: Yes. We stopped in a college, Acyutananda and myself, a D.A.B. college, and we spoke to some of these professors of physics, and we showed him the books and especially that Scientific Basis...

Prabhupada: On the whole I very much appreciated your presentation. I thank you very much.

Svarupa Damodara: Thank you, Srila Prabhupada.

Giriraja: They like that book, Scientific Basis.

Prabhupada: The real scientific method is that the life which is in contact with this matter, he's suffering. And the real, I mean to say, enjoyment or peaceful life is to get him out of this condition of material contact. That is the best benefit. But these rascals, they are trying to adjust material things to give him happiness. "You are walking, all right, you take this car." That is not happiness. He does not know that in the car there are so many problems—more danger than walking. This is the mistake going on. Car is good, but that is not the solution. Solution is different. That we must... Na te viduḥ;. Na te viduḥ; svartha-gatim hi visnum [SB 7.5.31]. Let us go back to home, back to Godhead. (pause) So that Sharma is more impressed.

Svarupa Damodara: Yes, Sharma just came here from the United States. He studied for a few years. So he is also a cardiologist.

Prabhupada: Oh.

Svarupa Damodara: And he had some friends there in Bombay Hospital, and he is going to definitely make arrangement so we can give a seminar in the hospital.

Prabhupada: Important man. Recognize him. Make him member.

Svarupa Damodara: We will also make some engagements in... There is an institute called Patha Institute for Fundamental Research. They study about nuclear physics. So I am going to arrange for one of our people to speak.

Prabhupada: Oh, yes. Speak in important institution like that. That will command respect.

Svarupa Damodara: He is going to speak about quantum physics and Krsna consciousness.

Prabhupada: These things the swamis cannot do.

Giriraja: No. None of them. (laughter)

Prabhupada: Either Cinmayananda or this Sai Baba or this...

Indian man: Muktananda.

Prabhupada: They cannot.

Gargamuni: None of them. Especially in India, this will be a great attraction, if we speak these subjects... We should call a press conference. Whenever these scientists make some new discovery they hold a press conference. So we should also hold a press conference and say "Life comes from life."

Prabhupada: That will come automatically. We are not very great scientists.(?) Let us speak important institute.

Sridhara: In India they have a club, and some of the famous scientists in India belong to it. It's called the "Life Comes From Matter" club.

Devotee: Really?

Prabhupada: Challenge them.

Sridhara: I think you met one of the head men.

Svarupa Damodara: Yes, I met a head man. He is in Trombay, the Bhava(?) Atomic Research Center. But I discussed for about three and a half hours, and he showed me all the laboratory that he is doing. And then we sat together and then we discussed the...

Prabhupada: Did you record all the talks?

Svarupa Damodara: This was not recorded.

Prabhupada: It should be recorded.

Svarupa Damodara: I didn't have my cassette with me.

Prabhupada: You keep one assistant, to record you.

Svarupa Damodara: But I pointed out the mistakes, the defects that we have in scientific studies, and he thought very carefully and he agreed to the point.

Prabhupada: Yes, any intelligent man should agree to the right point.

Svarupa Damodara: We knew what he was doing, but he didn't know what we were doing. That was the...

Prabhupada: That is ignorance. Childish. A child does not know what he is doing. That is the difference between a child and elderly man. Yesterday there was sufficient crowd, I think.

Sridhara: There was nice crowd, all respectable men also. Tonight it will be bigger.

Gargamuni: Sunday is always the biggest.

Svarupa Damodara: I find Bombay people are a little bit more open-minded.

Prabhupada: Oh, yes. Bombay is the best city in India, undoubtedly. From the very beginning, and the richest city. The government revenue is collected from Bombay sixty-three percent. Bombay is so rich. Sixty-three percent from Bombay and thirty-seven percent from whole of India. That is the position.

Sridhara: Calcutta is also very wealthy.

Prabhupada: No.

Giriraja: They keep the money in black.

Sridhara: Oh, in black money.

Prabhupada: And religiously-minded.

Svarupa Damodara: Yes, I find almost everybody appreciates Srila Prabhupada so much, especially in Bombay. Anybody who knows about Srila Prabhupada, they highly appreciate, especially these scholars. But in Delhi it is very different. People are very close-minded.

Prabhupada: And government servant. After all, they are servants. In Bombay, they are in big, big business. They are limited. The government servants, they are limited. They are important so long they are on the post. Otherwise, they have no importance.

Svarupa Damodara: Just like Indira Gandhi.

Prabhupada: Yes. Personal importance they have...

Svarupa Damodara: From the newspaper I see that the United States is praising a lot this election.

Prabhupada: Yes. The democratic campaign. But from our point of view, these are not the solution. Temporary. Temporary relief. Danḍya jane raja yena nadite cubaya.(?) You know this? Danḍya jane raja yena nadite cubaya. I have spoken several times in... Formerly, the criminal was taken in the middle of the river and he was drowned. And when he was suffocating, he's held up. Then he, ahhh (takes deep breath). This relief is like that. That means as soon as he takes little strength, again, put again. Then danḍya jane raja yena nadite cubaya.(?) These rascals are like that. For the time being there is little relief: "Oh, we are now free from the leaders." And there is another hand is being created. Babaji or something like that. Then again they shall put his... This is going on.

Sridhara: I remember one example, you said we do not care who is manager of the stool room.

Prabhupada: Danḍya jane raja yena nadite cubaya. So make plan to speak in these big, big institutions. And recruit members from them.

Tamala Krsna: :Do you think that in America there will be much receptivity at this time?

Prabhupada: Make first of all in India.

Giriraja: From India you can be famous.

Svarupa Damodara: No, first of all, when we have this journal out, this volume, first volume is going to be out in about three months, and then it will be more effective. We are going to speak, at the same time distribute the journals in the form of written forms, as evidence of what has been spoken. So that way it has more weight. And if they don't understand they can read it and study, and they can...

Prabhupada: In the meantime let us recruit some important... Just like this Russian scientist.

Giriraja: This Dr. Khorana is supposed to be...

Prabhupada: I think as our books are entering Russia, it will create something.

Svarupa Damodara: Yes. I think it will be...

Prabhupada: Eighteen books, Bhagavata, they have ordered.

Tamala Krsna: It's not a joke. Someone is going to read them. The Russians are the biggest readers in the world.

Prabhupada: Not only that. They are anxious to read from Indian literature. They know there is substance in these books. That they know.

Gargamuni: In some of the libraries where we left books, we have gone back, and the librarians have said that your books are very heavily read. They are taken out and read. We have gone back, because I wanted to find out, to see how many, and they said, "Oh, they are very popular. They are always being taken out." We asked some librarians. So they are definitely being used.

Sridhara: Tell him about that one vice-chancellor.

Gargamuni: Yeah, I did. I told him. Even your old Bhagavatams, we looked in the back. One boy looked in the back where they have the check-outs, and they were heavily used for many years. At least thirty times they were taken out in last few years. The old Bhagavatams. [break]

Prabhupada: Now you have got science background, book background, knowledge background—everything is there strong. Make this movement... Art also. Art, literature, science, philosophy, religion, culture, character—everything, strong background. Let everyone come. You have to try to fashion this. Narayana-paraḥ; sarve na kutascana bibhyati. If you have got Narayana background, then what is the cause of being afraid?

narayana-paraḥ; sarve
na kutascana bibhyati
svargapavarga-narakesv
api tulyartha-darsinaḥ;
[SB 6.17.28]

Prahlada Maharaja, so much obstacles by his father at home. Still, he is speaking to his father:

tat sadhu manye 'sura-varya dehinam
sada samudvigna-dhiyam asad-grahat
hitvatma-patam grham andha-kupam
vanam gato yad dharim asrayeta
[SB 7.5.5]

The father was astonished that "After so much chastising, still the boy is speaking the same way. He has not changed?" Hitvatma-patam grham andha-kupam vanam gato yad dharim asrayeta. "Incorrigible. Kill him." "All right, kill me. I don't care." They have got so exalted character like Prahlada Maharaja, Dhruva Maharaja, all great personalities. Apart from big, big devatas... Svayambhur naradaḥ; sambhuḥ; [SB 6.3.20]. We have got small boys also as good as Brahma, more than Brahma. Svayambhur naradaḥ; sambhuḥ; prahladaḥ; kapilo manu, prahlada. Immediately comes Prahlada also. Amongst svayambhur naradaḥ; sambhuḥ;.... janako bhismo balir vaiyasakiḥ;. Read Bhagavatam, amalam puranam. Read yourself, let them read. That is Krsna consciousness movement. There is no question of cheating or getting some some material profit out of this movement. We have no such thing. Material profit will automatically... My Guru Maharaja used to say, "You are thinking of material things so. We should come and fall down at your feet, 'Why you are worrying? You go and speak the real truth.' " (Bengali:) " 'Go and speak the truth.' " No compromise. So I never had scarcity of money. He is from the very beginning.

Gargamuni: Yes.

Prabhupada: Yes. Coming, money was... You know. You were also.

Gargamuni: You made the landlord a member. Mr., hm,...

Prabhupada: All right, go.

Devotees: All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

Prabhupada: Jaya. Take this seriously. (end)