Prabhupada: But we are so... You can keep it there now. Keep. So you do not believe in these things, that there is Bhagavan and Bhagavan comes, He has got a mission. Do you believe in these things? Frankly speaking, do you believe in these things?

Minister: We do. We do believe.

Prabhupada: Then you must act according to His mission. According to His mission. The mission is yada yada hi dharmasya glanir bhavati bharata [Bg. 4.7]. When we are engaged in glanir dharma, which is not dharma. Cheating. Glanir, glanir. What is the glanir? Glanir means which is abominable. Yes. Yada yada hi dharmasya glanir bhavati [Bg. 4.7]. So what is that glanir? Glanir means, dharma means dharmam tu saksad bhagavat-pranitam [SB 6.3.19]. In the Srimad-Bhagavatam, there is... Yamaraja said, dharmam tu saksad bhagavat-pranitam [SB 6.3.19]. Dharma cannot be manufactured by any man. You have got Sixth Canto?

Harikesa: Sixth Canto, Third Chapter, 19th verse.

Prabhupada: Yes, find this verse. Yamaraja said, dharmam tu saksad bhagavat-pranitam [SB 6.3.19]. Even the demigods, they cannot manufacture dharma.

Harikesa:

dharmam tu saksad bhagavat-pranitam
na vai vidur rsayo napi devaḥ;
na siddha-mukhya asura manusyaḥ;
kuto nu vidyadhara-caranadayaḥ;
[SB 6.3.19]

"Real religious principles are enacted by the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Although fully situated in the mode of goodness, even the great rsis who occupy the topmost planets cannot ascertain the real religious principles, nor can the demigods or the leaders of Siddhaloka, to say nothing of the asuras, ordinary human beings, Vidyadharas and Caranas."

Prabhupada: Nobody can. This is the principle. So when so many rascal dharma is introduced, that is dharmasya glaniḥ;. So we must know this. Then we can understand what is the mission of Bhagavan. When rascals are introducing so-called so many dharmas, that is dharmasya glaniḥ;. Do you accept or not?

Minister: Yes, we accept.

Prabhupada: Therefore, Bhagavan concludes at the end, "You rascal, sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam [Bg. 18.66]." This is dharma. To surrender to the Lord. That is dharma. In another place, Srimad-Bhagavatam, sa vai pumsam paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhoksaje [SB 1.2.6]. Without this, all cheating. If there is no bhakti, surrender to the Supreme Personality of Godhead, all these kind of dharmas, they're all cheating. Therefore in the Srimad-Bhagavatam it is said dharmaḥ; projjhita-kaitavo 'tra [SB 1.1.2]. On this, Sridhara Svami has commented, atra moksa vañca api nirastam.(?) Dharma artha kama moksa [SB 4.8.41, Cc. Adi 1.90]. So according to this principle, they're all cheating. So-called religious system, artha, economic development, sense gratification. Just like that, we have created so many social dharmas. Samsara-dharma, grhastha-dharma, this dharma, that dharma. So in that way, they're all-cheating. Therefore, our request is that yajñarthe karmanaḥ; anyatra loko 'yam karma-bandhanaḥ; [Bg. 3.9]. In the Balaji's temple, mostly poor cultivators. I have seen, they go. And they want to give something to the Lord. Yajñarthe. So the karmis, they're advised, yat karosi kurusva tad mad arpanam. "Give me." So these karmis, somehow or other, by their great fortune, they're giving something to the Lord. Yajñarthe. That money should not be utilized for any other purpose. That is our message. It must be utilized for the purpose to fulfill the mission of the Lord. Mission of the Lord is sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam [Bg. 18.66]. How people can be trained up to give up all these nonsensical type of dharma, and how to become a devotee of Lord. For this purpose this money should be spent. Then it will be all right.

Minister: Mostly it is utilized for that. Almost completely. Only one or two is mere what is called charity. The industry, there's been a wrong impression that we are working directly with industry.

Prabhupada: No, no. That is... It should be utilized simply for the purpose of awakening the devotional, what is called-inspiration. For no other purpose. Just like in the Caitanya-caritamrta it is said nitya-siddha krsna-bhakti. Krsna-bhakti, nitya-siddha. This is our natural... Just like these Europeans and Americans, they have become Krsna bhaktas. So what business they had to do with Krsna? They're coming from Christian family, Jewish families, or some of them Mohammedan family. So what they have got to do with Krsna? They haven't got to do anything with Krsna. So how they have become a Krsna bhakta? Even the... Just like he is coming from Parsee family, he is coming from Jewish family, he is coming from Christian family, he is coming from Europe, he is coming from America. So what they have got to do with Krsna? We Indians or Hindus, we may have some concern with Krsna, but what they have got? They haven't got anything to do with Krsna. Now you pay them one lakh of rupees and ask them, "You become again Christian. You become again Parsee." Just see. Make them again Christian. Practical. These are young boys. You ask them, that "I'll give you good girl, I'll give you good money. You give up this Krsna consciousness-come here." Ask them, make a test. They'll refuse, they'll kick out. How they have become? Therefore it is a fact, as it is stated in the Caitanya-caritamrta, krsna-bhakti nitya-siddha. Everyone has got Krsna bhakti eternally. It is not artificial. They have not become Krsna bhakta artificially. It is the eternal link that has been awakened.

Minister: There's no doubt of that, Swamiji. Let us say there are hundred leprosy patients. There are one thousand orphans. We put them there, give them food, and make them pray to Krsna...

Prabhupada: Well, you are... They are mistaken. But if you have to awaken Krsna bhakti, why you go to the lepers?

Minister: No, they have come here. They are all there in the temple. They are not allowing others to pray properly. They are all, one thousand... In the past...

Prabhupada: We have no objection, because our principle is krsna-bhakti nitya-siddha. So Krsna bhakti is there in everyone. So leper and non-leper. Just like our Vivekananda, he took up daridra-narayana. This is an absurd proposition. Narayana is never daridra. But if you put this argument, that Narayana is everywhere, so if Narayana is everywhere, why you take up only daridra-narayana? Why not dhani-narayana also? If you have got so broad vision that Narayana is everywhere, therefore we see everyone, so why you particularly take the daridra-narayana? Similarly, Krsna bhakti is everywhere. It is in the leper or non-leper. So why should we take particularly the lepers? So that is outwardly a social service that they are taking care of the leper. So if that vision it will not be right. Krsna bhakti even requires, even a karmi like big, big owner of factories, he's more diseased than the leper. Because he has no Krsna bhakti. So we have to take care of the leper and the richest man also if he has no Krsna bhakti.

Minister: That also. That also.

Prabhupada: No, therefore we should not make any distinction that only the lepers will be taken care of.

Minister: (Hindi) a rich man or somebody comes, prays...

Prabhupada: Everyone is more than leper.

Minister: He takes prasada in the temple, he goes. But this man is not allowed. He can't come. Therefore God goes to him.

Prabhupada: We have to take... You cannot manufacture where God goes. You should have to take lesson from God. That is one thing. If we manufacture ideas, that will never be successful. That will never be successful. Don't manufacture ideas. If you want to be servant of God, you must take instruction from God. That is wanted. You cannot manufacture idea that "God wants this." So first of all try to understand what is God's mission. God's mission is, it is clearly said, yada yada hi dharmasya glanir bhavati [Bg. 4.7]. So, more or less, everyone is entangled with this glanir dharma. They have manufactured. Just like the demigod worship. This is a glanir dharma. Krsna says sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja [Bg. 18.66]. And Krsna clearly says kamais tais tair hrta-jñanaḥ; yajante anya-devataḥ; [Bg. 7.20]. So if you want to utilize, people are giving in good faith, Balaji, Krsna. Their hard-earned money, whatever we are giving something. Yajña, that is wanted. Yajñarthat karmano 'nyatra loko 'yam karma-bandhanaḥ; [Bg. 3.9]. That money should not be utilized for any other purpose except yajña. First of all, you have to decide like that. Then we can give you direction. First of all, you have to decide that this money, not a single farthing should be spent for any other purpose than performing yajña. Then we can give you right direction. And if you have plan to utilize this money for any other purpose, that is not Krsna's mission. That is your mission. So first of all you have to decide whether you are going to execute Krsna's mission or your mission. Krsna's mission is very clearly defined. It is there, everything is declared there in the Bhagavad-gita. We can do it very nicely. But if you want to do any other mission, then you can do. You are government, you are in power, you can do that. But that will not be pleasing to Krsna. He has got a mission. That is stated. Dharmasya glanir bhavati. So any dharma, so-called dharma, which does not awaken their Krsna consciousness is glaniḥ;. Krsna does not want that. If you're against the will of Krsna, against the mission of Krsna, if you want to do something, you can do. People are doing so many things. That is also mentioned by Krsna.

Harikesa: Iti te jñanam...

Prabhupada: No. That one verse is that one does not... Krsna's mission is that "Surrender unto Me." Now who does not surrender to Krsna? That is stated by Krsna.

na mam duskrtino muḍhaḥ;
prapadyante naradhamaḥ;
mayayapahrta-jñana
asuram bhavam asritaḥ;
[Bg. 7.15]

Anyone who does not surrender to Krsna, he must be grouped either duskrtina, muḍha, naradhama, mayayapahrta-jñana, asuram bhavam. We do that. Anyone who does not surrender to Krsna, he must be grouped among them. And for them, what is their... Tan aham dvisataḥ; kruran ksipamy ajasram. Find out this verse, tan aham dvisataḥ; kruran... If anyone is envious of Krsna, then what is his punishment.

Harikesa:

tan aham dvisataḥ; kruran
samsaresu naradhaman
ksipamy ajasram asubhan
asurisv eva yonisu
[Bg. 16.19]

Prabhupada: This is their punishment.

Harikesa: "Those who are envious and mischievous, who are the lowest among men, are cast by Me into the ocean of material existence into various demoniac species of life."

Prabhupada: And next verse?

Harikesa:

asurim yonim apanna
muḍha janmani janmani
mam aprapyaiva kaunteya
tato yanty adhamam gatim
[Bg. 16.20]

"Attaining repeated birth amongst the species of demoniac life, such persons can never approach Me. Gradually they sink down to the most abominable type of existence."

Prabhupada: So this is my request, that our money... There is nothing our money. Everything Krsna's. But we are thinking. Because we are asuric. So asuras think like that. Just like Kamsa, Hiranyakasipu. "Ha!" Ravana. "Ha! What is Rama?" That is asura's. They think like that, and that is asuric. But otherwise isavasyam idam sarvam [Iso mantra 1]. Everything belongs to Krsna. Therefore yajña is advised. The sooner you hand over Krsna's property to Krsna, it is good for you.

Minister: Swamiji we are karmi-yogis. We start the day with surrendering to God and asking Him to show us the way. Beyond that, I don't know what our duty...

Prabhupada: But a karma-yogi, why you should take Krsna's money for karma?

Minister: For what? (indistinct) That is for...

Prabhupada: That is the...

Minister: It is not used. As you have correctly said, that way only it is used.

Prabhupada: No, the first thing is that if you decide that Krsna's money should be utilized for Krsna's mission, so Krsna's mission is this, that sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja [Bg. 18.66]. You have to bring them to the sense of Krsna consciousness. And there is a process. You cannot manufacture that process. You have to take the process from Krsna. That Krsna says man-mana bhava mad-bhakto mad-yaji mam namaskuru [Bg. 18.65]. Four things. You have to teach people how he can think of Krsna, man-mana. Then the mission is there. That is Krsna also. Krsna says,

satatam kirtayanto mam
yatantas ca drḍha-vrataḥ;
namasyantas ca mam bhaktya
nitya-yukta upasate
[Bg. 9.14]

You have to teach them like that. Satatam kirtayanto mam. As we are doing. We're always chanting Hare Krsna. But if you manufacture in your own way, that you can do. Yaḥ; sastra-vidhim utsrjya vartate kama-karataḥ; na sa siddhim avapnoti [Bg. 16.23]. That will never be successful. If you have to execute the mission of Krsna, you have to take instruction of Krsna and do it rigidly. Then you'll be successful. Krsna, Krsna's mission is that one must know Krsna and surrender to Him. This is mission. Krsna does not say that by karma-yoga one can understand Him. Krsna says bhaktya mam abhijanati yavan yas casmi tattvataḥ; [Bg. 18.55]. You cannot say "We are karma-yogis." Karma-yogi means the third-class. He's karmi and little mixed up with bhakti. Adulterated. Jñana-yogi, he's not a bhakta. He's jñani, but just to bring him gradually, a little bhakti. You see? And real bhakti is anyabhilasita-sunyam jñana-karmady-anavrtam [Brs. 1.1.11]. When it will be tintless of any karma and jñana, then it is pure bhakti. That is Krsna's mission. Sarva-dharman parityajya [Bg. 18.66]. Not mixed up with jñana, karma, yoga. Otherwise, how Krsna says bhaktya mam abhijanati [Bg. 18.55]. He could have said, "Any way," as these rascals say, "Any way go, you will get Krsna." That Krsna does not say. Krsna says bhaktya mam abhijanati yavan yas casmi tattvataḥ; [Bg. 18.55]. Manusyanam sahasresu kascid vetti mam tattvataḥ; [Bg. 7.3]. Janma karma me divyam yo janati tattvataḥ; [Bg. 4.9]. So that tattva, bhaktya mam abhijanati yavan yas casmi tattvataḥ; [Bg. 18.55]. So we have to take this. You manufacture in your own way, and still you carry out the mission of Krsna. That is contradiction. You have to take the lesson from Krsna. Then it will be successful. Karma-yoga is for the third-class. They are addicted to karma, a little bhakti, that's all. That is not pure. Jñana-karmady-anavrtam [Cc. Madhya 19.167]. When there is not a tinge of karma and jñana, that is pure bhakti. That is Krsna's mission. So everything is there, direction is there. We can guide you, not according to our whims, but according to sastra. And if you agree to accept, then we can also cooperate with you. But if you manufacture your own way, then how we can possibly... Krsna's mission is this: yada yada hi dharmasya glanir bhavati [Bg. 4.7]. Except krsna-bhakti, bhaktya, everything is glaniḥ;. All glaniḥ;. And that can be awakened, krsna-bhakti. Just like these boys are doing. That is enunciated in the Caitanya-caritamrta-nitya-siddha krsna—everyone has krsna-bhakti. You have to awaken simply. Nitya-siddha krsna-prema sadhya kabhu naya [Cc. madhya 22.107]. It is not artificial. Sravanadi-suddha-citte karaye udaya. If the hearing about Krsna is pure... That is also confirmed in the Srimad-Bhagavatam,

srnvatam sva-kathaḥ; krsnaḥ;
punya-sravana-kirtanaḥ;
hrdy antaḥ; stho hy abhadrani
vidhunoti suhrt satam
[SB 1.2.17]

nasṭa-prayesv abhadresu
nityam bhagavata-sevaya
bhagavaty naisṭhiki bhakti
uttama-sloke bhavati naisṭhiki.
[SB 1.2.18]

tada rajas-tamo-bhavaḥ;
kama-lobhadayas ca ye
ceta etair anaviddham
sthitam sattve prasidati
[SB 1.2.19]

So we have to follow this formula. This is sastra-viddhi. One step to another. And if you don't care for the sastra-viddhi, we can do that, but na siddhim na avapnoti. It will never be successful. It will be a show, big show, but there will be no siddhi. (pause) If you want to do according to the direction of Krsna, our cent per cent cooperation will be there. We'll not touch a single farthing of your money, but we can give you direction, "Spend it like that." And government men, you can see that we are not touching a single farthing of your money, but it is being spent for Krsna's mission. That you can believe. It is the duty of the government men to see that people may not misrepresent. That is the Vedic injunction. Prthu Maharaja was to see that a brahmana is doing, acting like brahmana, ksatriya is doing like ksatriya. So it is government's duty to see that Balaji's money, Krsna's money, is to the farthing spent for His mission. That is your duty. That is government's duty, that nothing is misused, nothing is misrepresented. But we know how to execute the mission of Krsna. Anyone can know because direction is there. It is not a secret thing. It is open secret. But you have to act upon it. That requires training. And so far my experience goes, the whole world will take to Krsna consciousness. Unfortunately, I am struggling single-handed. And they are criticizing me in the Parliament. You have seen the recent article Blitz against me? What is that heading? "Ungodly face." I am doing ungodly? But they are advertising like that. Trying to make me unpopular. The Mayavadis, they say that Bhaktivedanta Swami is ruining Hinduism. They are saying like that. (Hindi) So I am being criticized in Parliament, I am criticized by the so-called jagad-gurus who have never seen what is jagat. And so on, so on.

Minister: No, for a country suffering from multiplicity of gods, Hinduism, you are doing a very great service, asking them to concentrate on Krsna.

Prabhupada: That is only God. Krsnas tu bhagavan svayam [SB 1.3.28].

Minister: How you are enlightening them, it is a very great service. No doubt about that. And you are making the man, the human being a servant of that (indistinct).

Prabhupada: This is not my manufacture. Sastra says krsnas tu bhagavan svayam.

Minister: They have said so many things in the name of sastra. They have said so many things in the name of sastra. That you are making it one is very good.

Prabhupada: No, those who are approved sastra is accepted by the acaryas. Sastra, which is accepted by the acarya, that is sastra. You cannot make. As you cannot manufacture religion, you cannot manufacture sastras. Approved by the acaryas. Acaryopasanam. Therefore Krsna says also that you should know from the acarya. Everyone. They are preaching Bhagavad-gita with the purpose of killing Krsna. Everyone. The politicians, the scholars, the rascals, and everyone. The main purpose is how to kill Krsna. In Bombay I have got a very big friend, you know him. I do not wish to disclose his name. He has set aside ten lakhs of rupees for preaching Gita. But he wants Gita without Krsna. Rama without Sita. Ravana's policy. Take away Sita. Rama will remain alone. So take away Gita and cut Krsna. But I cannot make any compromise I shall... My life is ended, now eighty-one. I do not... But so long I shall live I shall make no compromise, krsnas tu bhagavan svayam [SB 1.3.28]. Drḍha-vrata. And that is a fact. Why shall I mislead people? They are searching after God, what is God. Here is God. Why don't you take it. See His activities. Aisvaryasya samagrasya viryasya yasasaḥ;. Tally with the formula of God, you see Krsna is God. Krsnas tu bhagavan svayam. So whatever teeny effort I have got, I shall try to establish temples of Krsna all over the world with my teeny income. I have got book sales. Krsna has given me very good chance. It is beyond any dream. We are selling books sixty thousand dollars daily.

Indian man: Six lakhs about.

Indian man: Thirty thousand dollars.

Indian man: Sixty thousand dollars.

Indian man: Yes daily.

Prabhupada: And we are known the topmost publisher of religious and philosophical books in the world. And we are approved, our books are approved by the greatest learned scholars of all universities. Because they are seeing a new light. No hodgepodge philosophy. India also, wherever we are going. Now within how many days? Within a month.

Prabhavisnu: Yes, one month, in Uttar Pradesh...

Prabhupada: He has got seventy standing orders. Our books are, say eighty. So eighty books, say, average five dollars. So eighty books, five dollars means...

Prabhavisnu: Four hundred dollars.

Prabhupada: Four hundred dollars. Such seventy orders. He has secured order in one month, seventy orders. In one place. Standing orders. "Whatever is published give us, and then others, when they will be published, send also." They have not seen even the books.

Indian man: This is practical pracara, giving books.

Prabhupada: No librarian, no university, no scholar, no professor is refusing. As soon as we go, "Oh, yes, bring. We shall take." So I am bringing money from the foreign countries by my selling books, and they are criticizing me that I am C.I.A. Just see the fun. And there is nobody to give me protection.

Indian man: Not Lord giving protection? (laughter)

Prabhupada: No, Lord, giving, giving. That I am confident. Because they are envious, "How Bhaktivedanta Swami is getting so much money? He's paying crores and crores. There must be some political..." As they are getting from Russia. But actually, I am selling. I am working night, writing these books, and these boys are helping me to sell it. I am getting enough money to spend it. What is my fault? For Krsna's sake we have sacrificed everything, our life and everything and Krsna is giving us money and we are spending it and they are criticizing in the Parliament. This is my misfortune. I don't take it as misfortune. Because asuras are always there. Even Krsna's time.

Minister: They are criticizing, but not...

Prabhupada: Because we are getting so much money. For this temple we have spent... ten lakhs?

Mahamsa: Twelve lakhs.

Prabhupada: Twelve lakhs. So by selling my books. And I have sent him more than four lakhs, five lakhs from foreign countries. This is my fault. Similarly, in Bombay we are spending every month seven lakhs regularly. That is coming from foreign countries. And they are thinking that I'm taking bribe and acting as C.I.A. And C.I.A. have become Vaisnavas with long sikha and giving up all facilities of life and they are dancing with the C.I.A. People have no common sense that C.I.A. agent could stay in a nice hotel and enjoy life. Why so much vairagya? Even my Godbrothers said that American government has given me two crores of rupees. Now we are planning to have a temple in Mayapura where... What is, what is the economic estimates, where we shall spend how much money monthly?

Harikesa: Two hundred thousand dollars monthly.

Prabhupada: Two hundred thousand dollars monthly. [break] Nobody will be able to check it. He'll go on. That is Krsna. Here is dictaphone. I work at night. I get up at half past twelve, one, and I write books. And daytime I'm engaged. And daily either ten page, twenty page written, that is sent to Los Angeles. You have seen our press? And they take care. How our books printed, have you got that film?

Mahamsa: I have it in 16 mm only. Yes.

Prabhupada: Why don't you show?

Mahamsa: Just now?

Prabhupada: Yes. It will take little ...

Mahamsa: I don't have a Fairchild. I have it in 16 mm film.

Prabhupada: That's all right. But the Press...

Mahamsa: Yes, the Press film.

Prabhupada: You can show, they'll be... How in the American industrial process we are printing our books. I made the Book Trust, sixty thousand dollars they are selling. So as author, I could have derived from them at least six thousand, ten percent minimum. Six thousand dollars per day. Six thousand dollars means sixty thousand rupees. That could have been my daily income. But I take little khicuḍi from them, that's all. (Harikesa laughing)

Indian man: Two crores per year, it comes to...

Prabhupada: Yes. (pause) Our farming projects, very successful. Now here Badrukaji is also giving us some land. (indistinct)

Hari-sauri: Vasughosa.

Prabhupada: So we have got big program. Any amount of money you bring to us, we shall spend it immediately. (pause) (kirtana in background) [break] There is a logic, andha-pangu-nyaya. One man is blind. Another man is lame. Both are useless. When they combined together the lame man was taken by the blind man. So the lame man has got eyes, he was giving direction, "Go this way." So both their work was done. So I say that India is lame and America is blind. Let us combine together. Then we can give a great culture for the benefit of the whole human society. India has no money-lame. And they have got money but they have no knowledge. So let us combine together. This is logic. Andha-pangu-nyaya. So by this cooperation they have... When I was in India I published three parts of Srimad-Bhagavatam with great difficulty. And now since I have gone there I am publishing every month a book. So on account of their cooperation we are able to publish so many books and organize the sale all over the world. But it is true that this culture is very much welcome all over the world. That is happening. That is real execution of the mission of Krsna. Not to keep Krsna within the boundaries of certain areas. Aham bija-pradaḥ; pita. Sarva-yonisu kaunteya [Bg. 14.4]. He's the father of all living entities. They should know it. We have got many other films also. How we are giving protection to the cows in different farms, how we are getting sumptuous milk. Two years ago there was an article in the Navabharata Times in Delhi, big article, one full page, first page. And the heading was that New Vrindaban (Hindi). They gave this heading. And they gave all details how to use the land New Vrindaban in Virginia, we have got one thousand acre of land and they are utilizing it. How they are living peacefully. So we want to make an example here with this six hundred acres of land, if it is given to us. Krsna's formula is there. Annad bhavanti bhutani. Produce sufficient quantity of anna. Everyone will be satisfied. Annad bhavanti bhutani. Krsna never says by factory bhavanti bhutani. Annad bhavanti bhutani. Parjanyad anna-sambhavaḥ; yajñad bhavati parjanyo yajñaḥ; karma-samudbhavaḥ; [Bg. 3.14]. Yajñarthat karmano 'nyatra loko 'yam karma-bandhanaḥ; [Bg. 3.9]. This formula should be... That is Krsna's mission. Krsna's mission, what to speak of Krsna's mission (Hindi). Krsna to carry personally, (indistinct), aham adir hi devanam [Bg 10.2]. (Hindi) Krsna nirakara. He's personally speaking. And Vyasadeva writes bhagavan uvaca. (Hindi)

Indian man: (indistinct) [break]

Prabhupada: Idam jñanam akhyatam?

Harikesa: Iti te jñanam akhyatam.

Prabhupada: Iti te jñanam akhyatam...

Harikesa: Guhyad guhyataram maya. I'll get it.

iti te jñanam akhyatam
guhyad guhyataram maya
vimrsyaitad asesena
yathecchasi tatha kuru
[Bg. 18.63]

"Thus I have explained to you the most confidential of all knowledge. Deliberate on this fully and then do what you wish to do."

Prabhupada: Krsna has explained everything, all confidential. Now consider about it, think about it, and do whatever you like Yathecchasi tatha. The liberty is there. Whatever you like you can do. Krsna will not force. He can force, but He does not interfere with little liberty. Then he becomes stone. Living entity has got little liberty because he is part and parcel of Krsna. When Arjuna was decided, nasṭo mohaḥ; smrtir labdha. Krsna gave him liberty. Yathecchasi tatha kuru [Bg. 18.63]. But he voluntarily accepted, karisye vacanam tava.

Harikesa:

arjuna uvaca
nasṭo mohaḥ; smrtir labdha
tvat prasadan mayacyuta
sthito 'smi gata-sandehaḥ;
karisye vacanam tava
[Bg. 18.73]

Prabhupada: This is real religion.

Harikesa: "Arjuna said: My dear Krsna, O infallible one, my illusion is now gone. I have regained my memory by Your mercy and I am now firm and free from doubt and am prepared to act according to Your instructions."

Prabhupada: Yes, that is real... That is translated in Bengali,

nitya-siddha krsna-prema sadhya kabhu naya
sravanadi-suddha-citte karaye udaya
[Cc. madhya 22.107]

Now I have, now I, nasṭo mohaḥ;, now my illusion is over (Sanskrit) That is (indistinct). Krsna gives you liberty, whatever you like you do. But when you come to the conclusion, "No, I shall do what you say," that is perfection. I can do whatever I like. That liberty is there. But if I accept Krsna's instruction, that is bhakti. Find out that verse, satatam kirtayanto mam yatantas ca drḍha-vrataḥ; [Bg. 9.14].

Harikesa:

satatam kirtayanto mam
yatantas ca drḍha-vrataḥ;
namasyantas ca mam bhaktya
nitya-yukta upasate
[Bg. 9.14]

"Always chanting My glories, endeavoring with great determination, bowing down before Me, these great souls perpetually worship Me with devotion."

Prabhupada: This is religion. They are mahatmas. Previous verse?

Harikesa:

mahatmanas tu mam partha
daivim prakrtim asritaḥ;
bhajanty ananya-manaso
jñatva bhutadim avyayam
[Bg. 9.13]

"O son of Prtha, those who are not deluded, the great souls, are under the protection of the divine nature. They are fully engaged in devotional service because they know Me as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, original and inexhaustible."

Prabhupada: That is mahatma. This is mahatma. Mahatmanas tu mam partha [Bg. 9.13]. Find out this...

Harikesa: Daivim prakrtim asritaḥ;, bhajanty ananya-manaso jñatva bhutadim avyayam.

Prabhupada: Sa mahatma sudurlabhaḥ;. Bahunam janmanam ante jñanavan mam prapadyate [Bg. 7.19].

Harikesa:

bahunam janmanam ante
jñanavan mam prapadyate
vasudevaḥ; sarvam iti
sa mahatma sudurlabhaḥ;
[Bg. 7.19]

"After many births and deaths, he who is actually in knowledge surrenders unto Me, knowing Me to be the cause of all causes and all that is. Such a great soul is very rare.

Vasughosa: Srila Prabhupada? This gentleman is the head of the Marwari community, Mr. Dinami (?). They only speak Hindi. They would like to speak to you but they don't understand English.

Prabhupada: No, I can, (Hindi) [break] (Unless) one is enthused, he cannot preach. It is not possible. I went there when I was seventy years old. I was sitting in Vrndavana. So I thought that my Guru Maharaja wanted me, Caitanya Mahaprabhu wanted me... So in this old age let me try. (indistinct). But by Krsna's grace it is becoming successful. Tesam satata-yuktanam bhajatam priti-purvakam, dadami buddhi-yogam tam [Bg. 10.10]. So there is good field for propagating this cult. See our young men they are... (Hindi) Juhu mai beef(?) shop (Hindi) And I inquired some of the Hindu boys that "Do you eat meat?" So they began to smile, then they accepted. (Hindi) [break] ...platform is finished. (Hindi) Yathecchasi tatha kuru [Bg. 18.63]. Yathecchasi, yatha icchasi tatha kuru.

Minister: No, we are agreed (?) to that. There is actually no difference at all than what you are saying. As a matter of fact government is..., that's what I said, they have started their own society, society of Krsna bhaktas. (indistinct) This country, our country, this country itself, it is such a great service.

Prabhupada: Whole world will accept.

Minister: This country itself is such a great service. It will require miracles.

Prabhupada: (Hindi) We can cooperate.

Minister: Unless you are so single-minded it can't be. Therefore you say there is no compromise. Otherwise if there are compromises, there will be adjustments, it will lead to dilution. We understand.

Prabhupada: Compromise (Hindi). These boys when they come for initiation, no compromise. You have to do this. No illicit sex, no meat-eating, no intoxication. Even up to smoking cigarettes or drinking tea. No gambling. If you accept, then you become my disciple. They accept. No compromise.

Minister: (indistinct) ...because you are establishing a center here. That will be very good.

Prabhupada: We are meant for this purpose, coordination, but if you take our... You have taken prasada?

Minister: Yes, we did. [break]

Prabhupada: ...and he is such a big man that he goes above the acaryas. Ati-buddhi. Ati-buddhi galaya dekhe. (?) If one is overintelligent, hang him. That is a Bengali saying. Ati-buddhi galaya dekhe (?). If one is unnecessarily overintelligent, just hang him with a rope in the neck. He is ati-buddhi. Anyway, he was intelligent to purchase.

Devotee: (aside:) He thought that it would explain...

Prabhupada: You have to read the subject matter. Even if he thinks that it is written by Bopadeva, such a great knowledge, one has to read. Such great knowledge is not possible by Bopadeva and unless... He is incarnation of God, Vyasadeva. It is said... (indistinct) Not this. (indistinct)

Mahamsa: Which volume do you want, Prabhupada?

Prabhupada: Second volume. Variyan esa...

Harikesa: Second Canto, Part One, verse one.

Prabhupada: Find out this. Variyan esa...

Harikesa:

sri-suka uvaca
variyan esa te prasnaḥ;
krto loka-hitam nrpa
atmavit-sammataḥ; pumsam
srotavyadisu yaḥ; paraḥ;
[SB 2.1.1]

Prabhupada: Find out that verse when he says, "I have heard it from my father." Parinisṭhito 'pi nairgunya. The verse begins parinisṭhito 'pi nairgunya.

Harikesa: Idam bhagavatam nama? Idam bhagavatam...

Prabhupada: No no, before that. Parinisṭhito 'pi. The word begins with parinisṭhito. Idam bhagavatam nama. No?

Harikesa:

idam bhagavatam nama
puranam brahma-sammitam
adhitavan dvaparadau
pitur dvaipayanad aham

Prabhupada: Ah, yes.

Harikesa: "At the end of the Dvapara-yuga, I studied this great supplement of Vedic literature of the name Srimad-Bhagavatam, which is equal to all the Vedas, from my father, Srila Dvaipayana Vyasadeva."

Prabhupada: That's right. And these rascals say Bopadeva. The speaker of Bhagavatam, he says that "I learned it from my father." His father is Vyasadeva. And these rascals say Bopadeva. Just see. And they are posted in big post. With such nonsense knowledge, they are posted in big post. He does not know who is the author of Bhagavata. Here it is distinctly said, "I learned it from my father." So his father is Vyasadeva. You take this verse. If anyone says... So Sukadeva Gosvami is the speaker of Bhagavata, he's admitting that "I've learned it from my father." And where the Bopadeva comes? Is that right?

Devotees: Yes, right.

Devotee: I was trying, that if I began to oppose him then he would not take the book.

Prabhupada: No, no. Scholarly. Just present that here is the... Sukadeva Gosvami is the speaker of Bhagavatam. He says "I learned it from my father." And who is his father? Bopadeva or Vyasadeva? This is going on. That is finished. (indistinct)

Mahamsa: Yes. Only two of them. One of them is here but he was not at home and the other one is out of station. So we'll get their signature when they come.

Prabhupada: Two of them have signed.

Mahamsa: Yes. Hariprasad and Shrinivas, they have both signed. And Shri Krishnan-dyuta, he's here but he was not at home or something.

Prabhupada: He'll sign?

Mahamsa: Yes. He will do whatever Hariprasad, says and Omkar Lal is the youngest brother, so he will also sign. Shall I keep this or would you like to keep it here?

Prabhupada: As you like. You can keep it.

Mahamsa: I'll lock it up.

Prabhupada: Where is that? (pause)

Prabhavisnu: When I speak to some of these archaeologists that I meet, these professors, I ask them do they believe in the historical validity of this Mahabharata and Bhagavatam, and they say, "Personally, I believe, but officially we have to follow the archaeology, the techniques of measuring the time." So they have two faces, one for official life and one for personal life.

Prabhupada: Duplicity. Duplicity.

Prabhavisnu: Yes. But there are some of them that are trying to prove also that the Mahabharata was historical.

Prabhupada: Mahabharata. That very name suggests history. Bigger India. Maha means bigger, and Bharata means India. Where is Mahamsa?

Prabhavisnu: There is one verse in the Bhagavad-gita, in Chapter Seven,

iccha-dvesa samutthena
dvandva-mohena bharata
sarva-bhutani sammoham
sarge yanti parantapa
[Bg. 7.27]

The meaning of this verse is that all living beings in the material world are born into delusion, overcome by the duality of desire and hate. So the fact is that the living entity, he desires to become great. Just like God is very great, so the living entity wants to imitate God, and therefore he comes in this material world, and he tries to become great and very powerful. This is desire. He tries to enjoy himself. And also iccha-dvesa. He becomes envious of the Lord. Many people in the material world, they don't like to admit that God exists or that there is someone greater than themselves because they think themselves to be the greatest. This is the disease of material life. But the cure for this disease that we have to accept...

Prabhupada: You know that? There are so many rascals, they say, "I'm God." You know that? That is the problem. If somebody says, "I am God," is it a fact? But he says like that. He's such a rascal. That is the point.

Devotee: In spite of all falsehood, people accept him as God.

Prabhupada: They accept.

Devotee: (indistinct)

Vasughosa: This man has come to read the Oriya book. He can read Oriya. So... He wanted someone to translate. They have come.

Prabhupada: Where is that Oriya book?

Harikesa: The one Gargamuni...

Vasughosa: Yes. Orissan language, Orissan language.

Prabhupada: (Hindi)

Indian man: (indistinct)

Prabhupada: Do you think that realization is good? If anyone realizes that he is God? Do you think he has actually realized anything?

Indian man: (indistinct)

Prabhupada: What is the proof? Everyone can say, "I am God," but where is the proof? He must act like God. If somebody says, "I am the richest man," simply this statement will do, or we must see how he is rich? (pause) Hm. Give him.

Indian man: (indistinct) Founder Sri Srimad A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada...

Prabhupada: Hm, (indistinct).

Indian man: (indistinct) ...founder Sri Srimad... (end)