Gopala Krsna: ...every day to get permission.
Prabhupada: Give him some prasada.
Gopala Krsna: Yes. He is coming at one o'clock, so we'll give the whole maha-prasada.
Prabhupada: So at four o'clock you are coming there? No. At Mr. Raja's house?
Prabhupada: They are holding some meeting? Today we have got very good article in the Sunday Chronicle. Everyone is reporting about us very nice, and still there are some envious persons, they are creating doubts about us.
Commissioner: They cannot create any doubts, Swamiji, as long as you are establishing the equality of man in the eyes of God, only one God. That is being done, I think.
Prabhupada: Yes, we have no discrimination.
Commissioner: Accha. No discrimination. And that is the... I don't think anybody called...
Prabhupada: SamaŠł•; sarvesu bhutesu.
na socati na kanksati
samaŠł•; sarvesu bhutesu
mad-bhaktim labhate param
Unless one is samaŠł•; sarvesu bhutesu he cannot reach the platform of devotional...
Commissioner: And how can there be anything greater service to humanity than...
Prabhupada: Here is the first thing, that brahma-bhutaŠł•;, Brahman realization. Then prasannatma. He is no more under the material tribulation or anxiety. We are in anxiety on account of our material conception of life. Prahlada Maharaja said sada samudvigna-dhiyam asad-grahat [SB 7.5.5]. Because we have accepted this asat body, material body, which will not exist, and we are concentrating our attention only on this body, therefore we are always anxious. Asad-grahat. Sada samudvigna-dhiyam asad-grahat. On account of asat. So this is going on all over the world. Simply anxiety. They have created United Nations, but where is the United Nation? The people go there with anxiety, that's all. And come back again with anxiety. Because their asad-grahat remains. The Indian is thinking, "I am Indian, this body." And the American is thinking, "I am American," and the Pakistani is thinking, "I am Pakistani." So asad-graha is there. So how the anxiety will go away? But they do not know this. There is no education. They want to keep him... "Feel always that you are Indian," "Feel always that you are American." "You feel always you are Hindu," "Feel always you are Muslim." Asad-graha. How there can be no anxiety? Sada samudvigna-dhiyam asad-grahat. So asato ma sad gamaya. This is Vedic injunction. Don't remain on the asat platform. Come to the sat platform. Asato ma sad gamaya. Tamaso ma jyotir gamaya. Don't remain ignorant. But unfortunately people are so absorbed in asat things they do not know what is sat. They cannot go to the sat platform. They cannot go to the light platform. And they are struggling like that. No solution. PunaŠł•; punas carvita-carvananam [SB 7.5.30]. The government may change, but the men are the same, in darkness. What improvement will there be simply by changing government? The persons who are governing, they are in the darkness. So how, by change of government, there will be change of situation? I said in, where? That the United Nations is an assembly of dogs barking. Where did I say it? It was published in the paper. I said that if you keep them as dogs, and if you ask some dogs, "My dear dogs, please do not bark. Live peacefully," is it possible? The dog will bark. That is their business. So we are not enlightening them what is actually we are. We are keeping on this bodily conception. That is the dog's conception. And how there will be peace? There cannot be. Simply by agreement, by treaty, there can be any peaceful? No. Just like children. They agree, "Yes, we shall not fight." Next moment they'll fight. And again they will make agreement. This is going on.
Commissioner: What could we do, the devotees staying(?) here in Andhra Pradesh state?
Prabhupada: You become guided by Bhagavad-gita.
Commissioner: (Hindi) If you think that everything could run then ahobalam(?) is there. They are now (indistinct). But if you are going. Tomorrow they have to (indistinct).
Prabhupada: You have counted? Not yet. Counting? No.
Hari-sauri: I've got it listed. 182. 1-8-2. All their temples should be reorganized on the... People should come there for being educated. Temple means it is an educational center.
Commissioner: Educational center.
Prabhupada: Oh, yes. Brahmanas means they are teachers. PaŠĻ≠hana-paŠĻ≠hana-yajana-yajana-dana-pratigrahaŠł•;. So every temple should be educational center, and the brahmanas should be engaged. They should be properly educated and they should teach others also. In this way, temple means education in spiritual life. And actually spiritual life is life. This material life, the bodily conception of life, is dead life. Apranasyeva dehasya manŠłćanam loka-ra√Ījanam. This nice shirt you have changed because there is life. When there is no life, who is going to change dress? The body is there, but why you are not interested in changing the dress? Better interest... The sooner the body is thrown away or burned, better. So similarly... [break] There is a proverb that a vulture goes very high, but his ambition is where is a dead body. As soon as he finds a dead body, (growling sound) immediately. And we see, "Oh, how high he has gone." So what is the going up so high if your aim is to find out a dead body? And actually, these aeronautics, they went to very high, suppose they went to moon. But after going there they find, "Where is Moscow? Where is this?" The same vulture business. So this Krsna consciousness movement is the only hope to give relief to the human society. So everyone should cooperate with this movement. Unfortunately, there are so many envious persons, they are writing against us, talking against us. They should be envious. Because they want to exploit, keeping the people in ignorance.
sarpaŠł•; kruraŠł•; khalaŠł•; kruraŠł•;
sarpat krurataraŠł•; khalaŠł•;
khalaŠł•; kena nivaryate
So our preaching is very difficult task, still we're trying our best.
Commissioner: That's what I find, Swamiji. My work is also very difficult. Work is very difficult. We have about 30,000 temples in this state, properties that have temples, the (indistinct) of temples, interest in temples...
Prabhupada: No, it can be... If government takes our advice, we can give them advice how to organize, how to utilize.
Commissioner: Definitely. We want a scheme. Definitely. Fortunately, it is the land of this Krsna and Godavari. It is a sacred land. Tungabhadra, Krsna, Godavari. We are finding everywhere there has been some kind of ups and downs. It has been studied.
Prabhupada: It is the government's duty to settle up. But they must know how to settle up. If they do not know then they cannot do anything.
Commissioner: No, we want guidance.
Prabhupada: That guidance we can give you. That guidance we can give. Because we have taken the brahmana's position. The brahmana's duty is to give guidance to the ksatriya. Government means ksatriya. So if the ksatriyas take guidance from the brahmana and they try to execute, then everything will be all right. So we can give you sufficient guidance provided you accept it. (laughter)
Commissioner: The end is common. And we have found yesterday some of your sisyas had come. They're so happy. They said, "This is what the requirement is," and we accept him as a sisya.
Prabhupada: Temple means a center, educational center, education. Give them prasada. Bring. Hare Krsna.
Commissioner: And we have centers through Tirupati all over the country in our important centers, we have got some centers.
Prabhupada: Now the thing is that, say, for Tirupati, it has got biggest income. But I understand that this income is being engaged for industrial purpose. But that, how to utilize in industrial purpose, that you do not know.
Commissioner: But just one thing, let me explain Swamiji. We are not directly giving to industry. What we are doing is we are depositing in a fixed deposit in certain banks, getting the highest interest. That interest we are utilizing for Sanskrit studies, Vedic studies, etc. We are not directly giving. What we are doing is this: we invest in your bank, but bank shall invest in a productive industrial purpose. We put a condition. We are not directly putting in the industry, and that's a wrong propaganda that's being done. What we are doing is the interest that comes, the funds that are there, they are safely there in a bank. The interest that comes we utilize only for religious purposes, like, as I said, the dharma-pracara, veda-pracara, all that we are doing.
Prabhupada: So, I have taken this veda-pracara. Why not come and join with us?
Commissioner: Yes, definitely.
Prabhupada: All over the world they're accepting. Now these foreigners, they're accepting. I have done it single-handed. So if the government comes forward and join with me, we can do at least ten times work.
Commissioner: How, kindly give us sir... I don't know if I'm taking your very valuable time. We are very sincere about it. We are having Himalayan opposition for some of our schemes. But when I studied yesterday, because before I came to you I thought I shouldn't just come for wasting your valuable time. Therefore I have found that your aims are what we have been thinking of for the society. The veda-pracara, we were thinking that we have also started on a small scale, not on your scale. And if it is that we were thinking in these terms-translation of these Vedas...
Prabhupada: First of all, first of all, you must know what is Veda. Vedas, vedais ca sarvair aham eva vedyaŠł•; [Bg. 15.15]. Vedic knowledge means to understand Krsna. So Krsna is explaining Himself, to understand Him. That is Bhagavad-gita. So if you accept the principles of Bhagavad-gita, the whole Vedas are accepted. Because purpose of Veda is to understand Krsna. And that Krsna is explaining Himself‚ÄĒ"I'm like this." So where is the difficulty to understand Vedas?
Commissioner: May I explain to you what we have, we are doing, Swamiji? In the religious we have now taken statistics of our veda-panŠłćitas. There are three hundred of them. Now they have said they don't want to come out of their villages. We have said wherever they are, in their own village, for one or two hours, they meet, chant the Veda in the temple or the village.
Prabhupada: They'll not do that.
Commissioner: They are now willing to.
Prabhupada: There may be some percentage. If you do not accept the recognized process... Just like Caitanya Mahaprabhu. Caitanya Mahaprabhu, He was a great scholar. So He was chanting and dancing. So some of the sannyasis, Mayavadi sannyasis in Benares... (to servant:) You keep it there, they will take. There was a meeting, and the question was that "You are a sannyasi..." This question was put to Caitanya Mahaprabhu, that "You have taken sannyasa, you do not read Vedanta, and you are mixing with the sentimental persons, chanting and dancing. What is this?" This was the question. So He explained that, "Yes, My Guru Maharaja found Me a great rascal." Guru more murkha dekhi' karila sasana [Cc. Adi 7.71]. You understand Bengali? No. "My Guru Maharaja saw Me a rascal number one. Therefore he has chastised Me." What is that? Guru more murkha dekhi' karila sasana. "He has said that 'You are rascal, you cannot read Vedas and Vedanta. You are rascal. You chant Hare Krsna.' So I'm doing that."
Commissioner: Chanting, yes. Yes.
Prabhupada: So He's Krsna Himself. He's neither rascal nor fool. But He represented the rascal and fools that who will read Vedanta. Everyone is after this Veda. No student will come to study Vedanta. That is not possible in this age. You see? Maybe somebody interested, but generally they'll not come. Even if one is born in the brahmana family, he is no more interested.
Commissioner: May I submit, Swamiji, therefore what we did was, these three hundred people, if they chant, three hundred rupees for a dana-paŠĻ≠ha,(?) and two hundred rupees for him and a hundred rupees a...
Prabhupada: No, no, brahmana, why he will take money?
Commissioner: It is, no, we are giving it as daksina.
Prabhupada: No, daksina. But they are chanting in exchange of daksina. Because you are giving daksina, therefore they are chanting. And you stop that daksina, nobody will come.
Commissioner: True. You are correct. (laughs) That we have told them. If they teach their own children, hundred rupees for him for teaching, forty rupees for a child who learns.
Prabhupada: That they will do, but when the hundred rupees will not be sufficient, they'll give up.
Commissioner: One thing is that at least one child is learning in each and every...
Prabhupada: No, I mean to say that is not the process. If you want to satisfy with money, and in exchange of money he wants to chant Vedas, that is not...
Commissioner: No, Swamiji, some of them didn't care either for the money.
Prabhupada: Some of them maybe.
Commissioner: And they were starving, and they were starving.
Prabhupada: But generally, generally, that Caitanya Mahaprabhu's process should be taken. As Caitanya Mahaprabhu represented Himself that "I am fool." He is not fool. He's representing the fools of this age. So if we take that process, it will be successful. It will be successful.
Commissioner: That also, (indistinct) that bhajana and every.
Prabhupada: Yes, let them come. Let them come in the temple and there may be sumptuously offering of bhoga. Let them chant and take prasada. In this chanting illiterate, literate, rascal, fool, lower, higher, everyone can join. And give them prasada. See the effect.
Commissioner: Yes. That is also part of the, that is the other part of it. We are having dhana-prasthanam,(?) bhajana group, hari-katha group...
Prabhupada: But kalau sudra-sambhavaŠł•;. The Vedas are meant for the brahmanas. So there is no brahmana practically. Neither there is training of brahmanas. Brahmana means he must speak truth. Satya sama dama titik‚ÄĒand if you ask nowadays anybody that "You don't speak lie, you speak truth," he will laugh, that "What a rascal this is. By speaking truth one can live nowadays?" he will say. The first business is satyam. And if you ask him, "You speak truth," he will laugh. So where is brahmana? A brahmana is so simple that if you ask him about his secrecy, he'll tell you, "Yes, this is..." Satyam. Just like Jabali? Upanisad, he was asked, he went to Gautama Muni. Satyaka, yes, for initiation. Gautama Muni asked him, "Who is your father?" He said, "I do not know." "Go to your mother." He went to the mother. Mother said, "Oh, my dear son, I do not know." He was a prostitute's son. So he came to Gautama Muni and said, "Sir, my mother does not know, I do not know." So he said, "You are a brahmana. Because you don't keep any secrecy you are brahmana. I'll initiate." So it is not the birth, but the quality-truthful. But these qualities will come when you make him a devotee. So this process should be taken, how to make him a devotee. And the easiest process of making devotee is let them come to the temple, chant Hare Krsna mantra and take prasada. Then gradually they'll become... I began this movement on this. Very simple. And they have come. I never asked them to study Vedas in the beginning. What they'll read Veda? What do they know? But this process has become successful. So if you take this process it will be very quickly successful. And then literature. I never gave them literature. I have got about eighty books. Not that in the beginning I asked them, "Come here and read books." No. "Chant Hare Krsna and take prasada." Now they are interested in reading books, in publishing them, in selling them and everything. They are doing everything. So if you take the authorized program it will be successful. Otherwise, it will not be successful.
Commissioner: Well... And how long the Swamiji will be here? I'll take up the program. We will. As a matter of fact, somehow...
Prabhupada: I am always at your service.
Commissioner: Somehow, the coincides, our program, we have taken a small scale. Every temple has been asked to have this bhajana, hari-katha, then this puja...
Prabhupada: There must be some competent man to induce. Everything will be planned.
Commissioner: Therefore our training has to be started perhaps here. Some of those people who could go. These are all the ideas of course. If you could give an impetus, that's exactly what I wanted to... Take advice from you. Now if a center is established. What we lack very badly are those people who can competently take up this work in the whole state. The temples are there, the funds are there, organization is there. Men who are, as you say, the real brahmana, who could go and preach this, we are lacking. We are lacking. And he has to be trained. And the right training you are giving. Anywhere I see your men are...
Prabhupada: So we can give men.
Commissioner: Yes. And a training institute has to be started. Very badly we need it. My department also. Having any number of people. It is suffering because we don't have the proper people with that objective to govern...
Prabhupada: Because the culture is lost. Culture is lost.
Commissioner: Because we take the local people as trust board members. We appoint officers.
Prabhupada: Therefore I said if you keep them dogs, what is the use of United Nations? You cannot make the dogs united. That is not possible.
Commissioner: Yes. Therefore recently in Tirupati we have been thinking of starting a training institute along with Bharatiya Vidya Bhavan.
Prabhupada: Bharatiya Vidya Bhavan, they have no idea.
Commissioner: They have no idea. Ramakrishna Mission we asked.
Prabhupada: They have no idea.
Commissioner: They don't have people. They said, "We don't have men even for our own missions."
Prabhupada: No. How long they can go on with false pretense? And these people, they have no idea what is spiritual life. It is a profession for collecting money. So if you... We do not like to criticize. Bharatiya Vidya Bhavan, Kanayalal Munshi, he did not believe there is life after death or he did not believe there is Krsna, fact. This is the founder. So what is their knowledge? And Vivekananda made Narayana daridra. So this is their manufacturing ideas. They have no sound knowledge, vacant. They are misled themselves, and they will mislead others. This is going on. But if you say that, "You are the only man?" I can say, "Yes, I am the only man" at the present moment. You believe or not believe. And why? Because I am following Krsna's instructions. That's all. I do not touch anything. That is our process. What Krsna has said, we say, that's all. Therefore there is little success. I don't manufacture. I have no extraordinary power or I cannot show magic or jugglery of words. But I do sincerely to present what Krsna has said. So if you do that, you'll be successful. If you do not do that, you'll never be successful. If you manufacture idea... We must know that we are defective. Our manufacturing of idea all defective. We must take standard instructions from Krsna. Then everything... So if you stick to this point, then we can guide you. And you'll be successful. Guidance is Krsna. Our duty is to present Krsna. Just like somebody has sent you money order, 1,000 rupees. I am a peon. I am not giving you the money. The money is sent by somebody. But I do not open it, adulterate it‚ÄĒthat is my honesty. That is my honesty. So the instruction is Krsna's. If I honestly deliver the same message to you then you are benefited, I am benefited. And as soon as I pilfer it, then it is useless. I am useless and you don't get profits, success. So if you decide to take Krsna's instruction rightly, then we can give you very good guidance. Everywhere you'll be successful. Everything is there.
Commissioner: Any plans to have training and...
Prabhupada: Anything. It must be sanctioned by the instruction of Bhagavad-gita. Then it will be successful.
Commissioner: For success the people, the local language, so that they may...
Prabhupada: Language difficulty is there. That we have to solve.
Commissioner: Therefore training has to be done here and in other places, and a center has to be there. You could plan one of those with...
Prabhupada: Yes, plan is there. Just like we are doing. And we can give you in detail. Provided you accept this principle that we shall abide by the instruction of Bhagavad-gita.
Commissioner: Who questions the Gita and the Upanisads?
Prabhupada: It is very difficult. Very difficult. You see. Big, big scholars, big, big politicians, they are supposed to be preaching Bhagavad-gita. They take their photograph in front of Bhagavad-gita, but without Krsna. They'll never talk of Krsna any time. Banish Krsna. Even Gandhi has said, "My imagination of Krsna is different." Perhaps you have read in his Gita-Press edition.(?) Krsna is speaking... Radhakrishnan said when Krsna says man-mana bhava mad-bhaktaŠł•;, he says "It is not to the Krsna person." Krsna says man-mana bhava mad bhaktaŠł•;, and he says it is not to the Krsna person. Just see how misleading it is. And if a person like Dr. Radhakrishnan, Gandhi, misleads, then who will hear me? What I am? There is one big person in Bombay, he said that he has set aside ten lakhs of rupees for Gita-pracara. But when I proposed Gita-pracara means Krsna pracara, so he said, "No, I want Gita without Krsna." Everyone...
Commissioner: Then who is the Gita-pracara? Gita-pracara.
Prabhupada: They are doing that. You can see from this big, big person. Gandhi used to say that he believes in Gita and Gita gives him solace in difficult times and so on, so on. But has he ever preached about Krsna? Tilok has ever preached about Krsna? Radhakrishnan has ever preached Krsna? Nobody. Their policy is take Sita and kill Rama. Ravana's policy. Take away Sita. Take away Gita and kill Krsna. So Ravana's policy will never be successful. Ravana's policy means he will be destroyed. You cannot do any harm to Rama, but he will be destroyed. This policy, that take Sita and kill Rama, means he will destroy himself. So this is going on. Take Gita and kill Krsna. This will destroy the whole thing. This Ravana's policy. And Hanuman's policy is somehow or other rescue Sita and get her seated by the side of Rama. Therefore he's worshiped, Vajrangaji. That is the difference between Ravana's policy. Sita is the via media. But one is trying to bring back Sita and seat her by the side of Rama, and another is trying to take away Sita and kill Rama. This wrong policy will not take. We have to accept the instruction of Gita and accept Krsna as the Supreme Lord. Then everything will be all right. Prasada? So thank you very much for your coming. So, kindly if you will agree to take the instruction of Gita, I am always at your service. I'll give you such guidance, our men, our everything. But you have to decide this. You cannot take up this policy, take Gita and banish Krsna. That is wanted.(?) (end)