Conversation with George Harrison
London
26 Jul

(Prabhupada is very hoarse)

George Harrison: How do you feel?

Prabhupada: I have old man's disease, cough and cold, so coughing. But still, work is going on, and I shall complete eighty years this month. September, eighty-one. So now, due to age, it is becoming little difficult.

George Harrison: Yes.

Prabhupada: Anyway, by the grace of Krsna.... So how are you?

George Harrison: Quite good.

Prabhupada: Chanting is going on?

George Harrison: Yes.

Prabhupada: Thank you. That is our life and soul. Grhe va vanete thake, 'ha gauranga' bole ḍake. Wherever you live, it doesn't matter, chant Hare Krsna. That's all. That is our only support. So bring food here.

Jayatirtha: We should have the lunch here?

Prabhupada: Yes.

George Harrison: All the devotees are looking really good.

Prabhupada: Eh?

George Harrison: The devotees are looking great. Strong.

Prabhupada: (laughs) Yes. Phalena pariciyate. By the result, one has to study. Yesterday, one devotee's father and mother came, Hari-sauri. She and his father were very pleased to see him healthy, bright.

Mukunda: They hadn't seen him for six years.

Prabhupada: Six years, yes. So we are inviting everyone, "Come here. Such a nice house given by George (laughs). You live here comfortably, eat nicely, and chant Hare Krsna." We don't want any factory work.

George Harrison: No.

Prabhupada: (laughs) Simply kartal and mrdanga. Still, people do not come. They'll prefer to go the factory, whole day work in the hell. (laughs) They prefer.

George Harrison: I suppose some day the whole of the world will just be chanting in the country.

Prabhupada: That is not possible, but if some of the leading men, they take it seriously, then others will follow. Just like in our book, your signature is there, "Oh, George Harrison. Yes." They take it without any consideration. Krsna book. Yad yad acarati sresṭhas tad tad evetaro janaḥ; [Bg. 3.21]. If the leading man does something, then his followers also do. This is the way. So if some of the leading men of the world, they take this movement seriously, then people will be happy. There's no doubt about it. You have come alone, without any associate?

George Harrison: Just on my own.

Prabhupada: That's all right.

George Harrison: It took me a while to find it. They're always building new roads everywhere and change the whole countryside. So I got a little lost.

Prabhupada: You came here twice, right?

George Harrison: Yes, I've been here three times. Where will you be in India when you go back to India?

Prabhupada: Most probably in Bombay. You have been in my Bombay?

George Harrison: I was going to go to Bombay. Yes, Bombay and Vrndavana when they were just building.

Prabhupada: Oh, Vrndavana, if you come there, stay for some time.

George Harrison: Yes, well, ah, this December...

Prabhupada: We have got very nice houses, both in Bombay and Vrndavana. And Mayapur also. Wherever you like. You will not be very uncomfortable.

George Harrison: I was going to go to Bombay for a wedding. Some friends are getting married.

Prabhupada: When?

George Harrison: December the fifth, I think.

Prabhupada: Very nice season in Bombay. Best time.

George Harrison: You know, I think you met Laksmi Shankar, lady singer? Her daughter, who is also a singer, Viji, Viji Sri Shankar, and she's marrying a South Indian violin player, L. Shankar.

Prabhupada: He's also Shankar?

George Harrison: Well, he's called L. Shankar. You know that South India they have a funny way around them, they have like a surname. He's just called L. Shankar. His brother is called L. Subhramanyam.

Devotee (1): George says he wants to spend some time in Vrndavana.

George Harrison: I was only there for about thirty-six hours last time.

Prabhupada: We have got now very good centers. Another gentleman, he's offering us a very good place at Mahabalesvara. That's one of the famous India stations. A very nice climate. So you can come and stay there. We have got now many good centers.

George Harrison: I'll come and see if you're in Bombay, because I'll be near where the temple is.

Prabhupada: Yes. Bombay is just like garden. As good as your place here. No. Not so big. It is seventeen acres, and Bombay is five. Just go on. (prasadam being served) Give him whatever you have got to give. But don't give much. When he wants something more.... Waste not, want not. Give more, that preparation, you should give more. (laughter) That is called (indistinct). You can bring it, prasada.

George Harrison: I'll just wash my hands.

Prabhupada: You can wash here. The sink is there. Here is also water. You can put the bowls outside, here, so that there will be sufficient place. Our Indian system is like this. That's all right. Sit down, you also sit down.

George Harrison: I see you've done new books. You've been so busy, there's so many books.

Prabhupada: Yes. There are already fifty-four, and another at least thirty books I have to finish before my death. (laughs) That I am.... Give him a puri. Where is Ravi Shankar?

George Harrison: He's in.... I think he's in New York. He'll be here the first of August, and then I think he's...

Prabhupada: He has got his house there? In New York?

George Harrison: No, just a house in Benares. Benares. He doesn't have anything. He just stays in hotels.

Prabhupada: I thought in Washington somebody told me that George Washing..., George Harrison has got his house here.

George Harrison: Yes, he had a little house here, but he...

Prabhupada: No, you have got your house in Washington?

George Harrison: No.

Prabhupada: No. Now we can begin.

George Harrison: Okay, Hare Krsna.

Gurudasa: Nimbu-pani?

Prabhupada: Hare Krsna. You give him two more samosas, he likes it. So now you can begin also. Yes. All the boys and girls are so nicely qualified for Krsna's service.

George Harrison: They are looking better and better all the time. It's nice for me to see Gurudasa. He's turning into a mountain. (laughter)

Prabhupada: His wife has also sannyasi, renounced. Have you seen her latest?

George Harrison: No.

Prabhupada: She has cut hair and white dress, living alone in the temple. Vairagya-vidya-nija-bhakti-yogam [Cc. Madhya 6.254]. This bhakti-yoga means vairagya-vidya, means detachment. That is the perfection of life. If we remain attached, that is conditional. Maya has made so many things attractive so that we have to remain attached, and to come out of this attachment is called bhakti. So one man, you can sit down, you can eat. Pradyumna, you can eat.

Pradyumna: I've taken some milk before.

Prabhupada: Oh, you don't require. Now you can eat, go on. Prasada prapti matrena. Our Jayatirtha prabhu is a good manager. Management, looking after. Yes, he's a very good manager, experienced.

George Harrison: Hm?

Prabhupada: He's experienced manager.

Jayatirtha: Not very good managing this place now.

George Harrison: Well, it seems okay. Seems to be taken over pretty good. Peacefully.

Prabhupada: He was also managing Los Angeles. Now we have brought him here to see things nicely managed.

George Harrison: It feels good, nice vibrations.

Prabhupada: Yes. One thing, Jayatirtha, why don't you sprinkle this water in this ground?

Jayatirtha: Well, we do sprinkle it.

Prabhupada: Just have an ordinary pumping, then it will be green.

Jayatirtha: There's a kind of a limit on the amount of water pressure you can get these days.

Prabhupada: Limit?

George Harrison: There's been a drought in England, there's no, very little water.

Prabhupada: This is very dangerous. Everything is now yellow.

Jayatirtha: It's greener here than most places around, but...

George Harrison: Everything's so dry this year, lots of trees and things dying without water.

Prabhupada: That is the punishment for this age. It is stated in the Srimad-Bhagavatam. There will be scarcity of rain and there will be scarcity of food and heavy taxation by government. And people will become mad on account of these three things. Anavrsá¹­i, durbhiksa, karopi.(?)

George Harrison: It's getting dryer in England each year. It's probably going to end up as a desert in another hundred years.

Prabhupada: They expect like that?

George Harrison: Well, I don't know. I think the whole world's changing. Somebody said it's the pollution, leaves so much..., there's so much of the oceans now with polluted and with oil on the top, there's not so much evaporation anymore.

Prabhupada: Not in the ocean. It is the sinful activities of the populace. That is real problem. They are all engaged in sinful activities. Especially this innocent animal killing. These are the all reaction.

Gurudasa: In New York they had one island of refuse floated in to shore. For years they were building up island of refuse, and it floated in, and now no one can go to the beaches.

Prabhupada: Samosa. Where is samosa? There is only one left?

George Harrison: I'm okay, actually.

Devotee (2): There is sour cream.

George Harrison: I've got plenty, thanks.

Prabhupada: Prasada, we can eat up to the neck. (laughter) There is no harm. You'll never get indigestion. You have got some fruits?

George Harrison: Yes.

Mukunda: There's a very nice mango preparation there, did you taste?

George Harrison: Which one?

Mukunda: Mango.

George Harrison: Oh, this one.

Prabhupada: One German girl has prepared. We are introducing restaurants like this, and people are liking very much. We have got one restaurant in Hawaii, another restaurant we are organizing in Boston. That is being directly done by Alfred. You have met Alfred?

Gurudasa: Alfred Ford, the grandson of Henry Ford.

George Harrison: No, I've never met him.

Prabhupada: Oh. He is also a very nice boy. Of course, younger than you. He's only twenty-four years. What is your age now?

George Harrison: Thirty-three.

Prabhupada: Thirty-three. That boy is also very nice young boy. Give Jayatirtha? No?

George Harrison: Do you feed everybody who comes Sunday?

Prabhupada: Sunday we have about five hundred to one thousand.

George Harrison: :So they must cook for days to feed all those people.

Gurudasa: No, day before, night before.

George Harrison: Do they bring food as well?

Gurudasa: They bring grains or something like that.

Prabhupada: We had a very gorgeous Ratha-yatra ceremony in New York last Sunday.

George Harrison: Hm?

Prabhupada: Sunday, eighteenth.

Pusta Krsna: A week ago yesterday.

Prabhupada: Give...

Gurudasa: We fed about ten thousand that day.

Prabhupada: Cauliflower. Take little.

George Harrison: I can't finish. (laughter) I'm trying to finish one so I can start on the next. I was sick also lately. I had something, I went yellow. I had jaundice. Don't know why, just had food poisoning or something, and it affected my liver.

Prabhupada: Who cooks for you?

George Harrison: Sometimes me, sometimes, ah.... I don't know, I think we'd had some Chinese food.

Prabhupada: Oh, you should not take.

George Harrison: Because I was working as well, so I, you know I think I was pretty tired.

Prabhupada: Better you cook simple food yourself and take it.

George Harrison: The only thing I could eat was papaya.

Prabhupada: Papaya is very good, yes.

George Harrison: I still have...

Prabhupada: Give him, give him, give him. No, that is the different. Oh, all right. We are just attempting a big planetarium in Mayapur. We have asked government to acquire land, 350 acres. That is negotiation going on. We shall give a Vedic planetarium.

George Harrison: Is that the one you were talking about? With all the...

Prabhupada: In the Fifth Canto.

Gurudasa: The planetarium will be 350 feet high and show the cosmology of the spiritual world.

Prabhupada: The construction will be like your Washington capital, like that.

George Harrison: A big dome.

Prabhupada: Yes. Estimated eight crores of rupees. Is there any dahi preparation? Oh, that's all right. Now, there is fruit. You...

George Harrison: Very good. Fantastic. Maybe just a little bit of, but now I'm not.... Thanks. That's fine. No, okay, thanks, fine, that's enough, that's fine.

Prabhupada: That watermelon, you can give. It is water.

George Harrison: Now let me finish all this.

Prabhupada: This is that mango preparation.

George Harrison: Okay.

Devotee (2): It's coming.

Prabhupada: You like that preparation? Yes.

George Harrison: We used to have this with milk at Hrsikesa. Every day they'd leave outside of the door. It's good. Do you, Mukunda, break even with all the costs, running cost? Do you do okay with all this food, fruit and stuff?

Mukunda: Oh, yes. More than even. We have about thirteen hundred life members in the Indian community. And then when they come on the weekends they bring food, they bring these hundred pound donations, money in the box.

George Harrison: At one time you just had the Godhead and incense.

Mukunda: Yes, now it's all public support.

Jayatirtha: We don't sell incense anymore.

Mukunda: And the books we just sell for very little; we hardly make any money on them at all.

Prabhupada: Are you reading sometimes my books? Which one?

George Harrison: Mainly Krsna.

Prabhupada: That is the main book. (laughs)

George Harrison: Mukunda gave me the new books, but there's so much in, ah, there's just so much to read.

Prabhupada: Philosophy.

George Harrison: I don't know how anybody could have written it, it's difficult enough to read all that amount.

Prabhupada: Sometimes they are surprised how one man can write so many books, but it is Krsna's grace. Otherwise not possible. Human being, it is not possible.

Mukunda: That one series of books I brought you, the Caitanya-caritamrta.

Prabhupada: Oh, yes. Hari-sauri? There is no sweet melon.

Mukunda: And every single word is written by hand, five hundred years ago.

Prabhupada: You are in the same house?

George Harrison: Hm? Henley.

Prabhupada: Henley, yes. Very nice house.

George Harrison: Hm, very nice. I work from the house. I have a studio, recording studio in the house. So I don't have to go to London anymore.

Prabhupada: Oh, you have all arrangement there. That's very nice. How many acres?

George Harrison: It's about thirty-five.

Prabhupada: Oh, very good area.

Devotee (2): Do you get (indistinct).

Mukunda: Yes, only five hundred pounds.

Devotee (2): Really? Amazing.

George Harrison: Five hundred pounds!

Mukunda: Yes, for four acres.

George Harrison: That's quite cheap.

Mukunda: Yes, we were really surprised. But if it hadn't been for that, we'd have had no cow pasture. Cows are out there.

Prabhupada: We have got one cow, many cows in Philadelphia. The milk bags, she gives hundred and two pounds daily.

George Harrison: Of milk? Who owns this? Who milks the cows?

Gurudasa: Some of the devotees.

Prabhupada: We have got tanks for storing milk, tanks.

George Harrison: Yes?

Prabhupada: Yes. All up-to-date refrigerator and everything. That extra milk they are selling. Similarly, in New Vrindaban we are getting one thousand pounds milk daily. One thousand pounds.

Mukunda: That's our place in West Virginia.

George Harrison: How many cows? Must be hundred of them.

Prabhupada: But the Philadelphia is more organized.

Jayatirtha: Yes.

Prabhupada: Through the nozzles, milk carrying, always hot water is washing it.

Jayatirtha: There's much better facility in that Pennsylvania place. New Vrindaban's kind of.... They built it up from scratch by themselves.

Gurudasa: Rustic.

Jayatirtha: Yes, rustic is the word. (laughter) Pennsylvania they bought this fabulous farm all made up.

Prabhupada: Pradyumna, give him little, this one here.

George Harrison: Oh, no, no. Please, no more. I'm really full. I won't have to eat for a few days. (laughter)

Prabhupada: Sweets.

George Harrison: Very well.

Prabhupada: Sweet will help you digest. Don't give three—at least four.

George Harrison: I won't be able to eat much more.

Prabhupada: Three is given to the enemy. According to our Indian system, if you give somebody three, that means he is enemy.

George Harrison: Oh, really? I always liked the number three.

Prabhupada: (laughs) You must give at least four.

George Harrison: I like three, five, seven, nine. Those numbers.

Prabhupada: Bring some fruit. What are the three enemies? Kama, krodha...

Pradyumna: Lobha.

Gurudasa: Lust, anger, greed.

Prabhupada: Three enemies-lusty desire, anger and greediness.

George Harrison: Yes. But there's a lot of nice threes.

Prabhupada: Yes. Just like Brahma, Visnu, Mahesvara. Three worlds, sankha, martya, padma. Trinity. These are nice things.

George Harrison: Tri-guna.

Prabhupada: Tri-guna, yes.

Jayatirtha: The three modes, they're not so nice.

George Harrison: Well, they're all necessary.

Jayatirtha: Yes.

George Harrison: I met, I think, one of your master's other devotees, I forget his name. Gosvami, big, in Vrndavana, big, tall, with a staff, bald hair. Said you knew his name?

Gurudasa: Purusottama?

George Harrison: Purusottama? Yes.

Mukunda: In Vrndavana.

Prabhupada: He's not a sannyasi.

George Harrison: Pardon?

Prabhupada: He's not sannyasi.

George Harrison: Oh, well, the one I met had a staff. Maybe it was a different one.

Gurudasa: Madhava Maharaja maybe.

Prabhupada: Maybe Madhava.

Jayatirtha: He's big.

Prabhupada: He's my Godbrother.

George Harrison: Yes, but he didn't speak English. But all the people I was with said he spoke very good Sanskrit, had a good understanding of Sanskrit. But I couldn't understand anything that he, you know.... I just watched him.

Pradyumna: I think Purusottama Gosai.

Prabhupada: He's talking of Purusottama.

Pradyumna: Gosai.

Prabhupada: He's blackish?

George Harrison: No.

Prabhupada: Not fair complexion. Purusottama.

George Harrison: I think he was fair, but he was very tall, very big, and you know, like this, huge size. You know that place where I stayed the night?

Pradyumna: That's his place, Purusottama Gosai.

Gurudasa: He's not a sannyasi.

Prabhupada: He's not sannyasi, he is householder.

Jayatirtha: He's married man.

George Harrison: Yes, he had.... His son lived there.

Jayatirtha: Yes.

George Harrison: But maybe he's taken, I don't know, I thought he had a danḍa, one of those staffs. I saw the little temple in the garden, Krsna and Radha, where they stay in bed. It's like a bed like this. You know the one?

Pradyumna: Nidhuvana Mandir.

Prabhupada: Nidhuvana.

George Harrison: I saw that, where He's been out all night so He doesn't get up until ten o'clock in the morning.

Prabhupada: You have not seen our temple since it is inaugurated? No.

George Harrison: No.

Prabhupada: This time you come. Many thousands people come to see daily.

George Harrison: I saw the photograph, looks really nice. It's big.

Gurudasa: Now they say it's the most beautiful modern temple in Vrndavana.

Prabhupada: You have seen our.... There is any film of the temple?

Gurudasa: No, but there's photographs.

Jayatirtha: We have a nice photograph at the reception room downstairs.

George Harrison: Actually it was half built.

Gurudasa: Yes. Even the building you went into, there's more, the roof.

Prabhupada: That courtyard is very beautiful. There is a tamala tree. That is a very valuable tree. The Bisanchand Seth asked me to cut.

Gurudasa: Yes, I remember.

Prabhupada: What a nonsense, such a.... He has no idea. Now, on account of that tree, it looks so beautiful.

Hari-sauri: It is, it's very wonderful. The whole tree has flourished since the temple began.

Gurudasa: We planned the whole temple around that tree. The whole plans.

George Harrison: It's a big old tree?

Pradyumna: Tree's just in the courtyard of the temple, so we left it there.

Gurudasa: Same color as Krsna, syama. Like a fresh rain cloud color. So when Radharani sees the tree, She thinks of Krsna. So when we see the tree we think of Krsna. And Srila Prabhupada sits underneath the tree and watches.

Prabhupada: Radharani in separation was embracing that tree, tamala tree. And they say that in Vrndavana, only there are four tamala trees left.

Gurudasa: Yes, they've said four or six. Very few.

George Harrison: Is this tree still living?

Devotees: Yes, it's alive.

George Harrison: My compliments to the chef. (laughter)

Prabhupada: What is this water?

Hari-sauri: Lemonade.

Prabhupada: Is there any more?

Hari-sauri: I just took it out. I can get some.

Prabhupada: Bring little. So I am very much pleased that you take so much trouble to come here.

George Harrison: It's my pleasure.

Prabhupada: Yes, give a little for drinking. You want little more?

George Harrison: Are you ever going to stop traveling?

Prabhupada: That is Krsna's desire. I don't want, personally, but if Krsna wants, that is everything. We have got more hundred and two centers, different parts of the world.

George Harrison: Still six more to go.

Prabhupada: Yes. (laughter) We have got a very nice house in Detroit. If you sometimes go there...

George Harrison: Whereabouts?

Prabhupada: Detroit.

George Harrison: Ah, Detroit. They need one there. Crazy place.

Jayatirtha: Heavy place.

Prabhupada: That house was constructed fifty years ago at the cost of six million dollars, and we have got it very cheap. Three hundred thousand dollars.

George Harrison: Was it a big house?

Hari-sauri: A very big mansion on the riverside.

George Harrison: Colonial house?

Prabhupada: Not as big-four acres of land—but the building is very costly. One room will cost now three hundred thousand dollars. So nicely made.

Hari-sauri: They estimated it would cost about fifteen million to build such a house now.

George Harrison: Yes, they probably wouldn't even bother or be able to, at least. Is it an old house?

Hari-sauri: Fifty years old. It's very solid, though, very good condition as well.

Prabhupada: And on the house on bottom, there is river. Not directly, but an offshoot of river. People come, rowing. A very nice situation, and because it is black quarter, nobody was purchasing. So I said that "For us, what is black or white? Purchase it." So we got very cheap. At that time I paid them hundred and fifty thousand, and (indistinct). So we purchased.

George Harrison: Did they find a temple in Hamburg? In Hamburg. I was there once, but they just had a little tiny house, and they were trying to get another.

Prabhupada: Hamburg, I think closed?

Jayatirtha: They have a place in Frankfurt, where the devotees are.... Just outside Frankfurt.

George Harrison: So they haven't got a place in Hamburg.

Jayatirtha: No, it's a heavy city.

George Harrison: I was there one year when they were having fights. It's...

Jayatirtha: Rockers. It's a heavy place.

Mukunda: Rockers.

George Harrison: It is full of gangs.

Prabhupada: And we have got another palace, what is that village?

Jayatirtha: South of Paris? That one?

Prabhupada: No, France.

Jayatirtha: Yes, south of Paris. It's near a place called Valancey. Very nice place.

Pradyumna: French chateau.

Mukunda: It's on about 250 acres.

George Harrison: Really?

Mukunda: Huge fields, beautiful place. Show you a picture of it.

George Harrison: Yes. So that's one of the goals now, one hundred and eight temples.

Jayatirtha: Should be able to do it this year, I think.

Prabhupada: Eh?

Jayatirtha: Should have a hundred and eight this year, I think.

Hari-sauri: Centers. One hundred and eight centers.

Prabhupada: Oh.

Hari-sauri: Temples and farms.

Prabhupada: We want worker. Otherwise, Krsna is giving us so many centers. In India I can get so many places, but how to manage? Simply taking from persons, and if I cannot manage nicely, that does not look well. Therefore I say first of all get men, then take donation. There is no harm. How many devotees were living here?

Jayatirtha: There's about a hundred, Srila Prabhupada.

Prabhupada: Yes, then it is all right. And if there was no devotees, ten devotees, then how could we manage?

Jayatirtha: We have about fifteen devotees that work full time on the grounds.

Prabhupada: So what is the difficulty sprinkling water that quarter? It is costly?

Jayatirtha: We'll try to sprinkle more, but there's a lack of water pressure.

Prabhupada: No, pressure, by pump.

George Harrison: That's what we have, we had a little Honda pump, but you had to start it off. It's a gasoline engine, I think. And put one pipe into the lake and just pump out of the lake, and then you have a sprinkler on the other side. Makes a noise, though, that's the only thing. Makes a noise and gives off an exhaust.

Prabhupada: A pump for, say, one hour, two hour.

George Harrison: You could use the water out of the lake, then nobody could really complain about that.

Jayatirtha: That's how we'd have to do it, I think.

George Harrison: That probably wouldn't be enough, it wouldn't take the level down. How do you fill that up?

Mukunda: That's a natural watershed. This is the lowest place in the area in about four miles every direction. So we have all those underground water tables feeding it.

Prabhupada: If there is rain then there is no scarcity of water. The water comes here. Yes.

George Harrison: But how, when you drain it, then how did you stop it from filling up?

Mukunda: Well, it did fill up in the winter quite a bit, but then in the summer it went back down. It's filled up now—we had to use city water to get it started. But as soon as it rains it goes up about this far.

Jayatirtha: It's evaporated about six inches since

Mukunda: You don't have a well in your place?

George Harrison: No, just, well, that (indistinct) pond. Originally the lakes all were filled just like this as well as flooding the drains, and when it rained off the house everything would go, and we have a big storage tank, and then there's ball cocks, and underneath that big bank of rhododendrons was like a room built there, which was a storage tank. Then any other water he must have used just from the mains. But these days, you know, they have meters on the mains, so you have to pay for every gallon.

Mukunda: What about getting those water diviners to come and find water?

George Harrison: Well, you can find it I think anywhere if you just bore a hole. So what we did was just bore at the end of the lake. But you have to go down to the depth of the riverbed, and there there's not much water because the rain, it's all chalk and limestone, so the rains.... That's the problem with watering in the summer, if you put water...

Prabhupada: From your house the river is near?

George Harrison: Yes.

Prabhupada: Thames?

George Harrison: Yes. But then the Thames is here, and we're up on the hill, so we bored a hole right down to the three hundred feet, I think, three hundred and fifty feet, to the level of the river, and then a pump, we can pump that. But when it does rain or if you do water the ground, it's so chalky that it runs right through it. So it's hard to keep a lot of moisture in the water. But also at the same time all the rain water runs through, then it hits the rock level of the riverbed, there must be tons of water down there. We can pump out of there all day long for months on end, and nothing seems to dry up.

Jayatirtha: Fantastic.

Mukunda: You could even do it by hand if you were out of electricity.

George Harrison: The hole is..., the bore is actually only about this wide. You can have a little bucket. (laughter)

Jayatirtha: You have to apply for permission, actually, to dig a well, but around here at least you have to get permission.

George Harrison: We did too. You have to put your name on the list, public notice in the local papers, and if somebody wants to complain about it, then they have a chance to. And once it's been up there for a few days or a week or something, and if nobody's made any formal complaint for any reason, like maybe they've got one and want to bore a hole, and you may be (indistinct) there, so then you just go ahead. Then it's all approved, and then your names goes on the list someplace in the county surveyor's office. So you do have to go through a, you know, a couple of months of waiting. Just to, say, bore a hole to replenish, and you have to just pay for the cost to bore a hole and the pump. To lay out electricity to where the pump is. The pump is, you know, just in the ground, you can't even see it. You know, by that weeping willow tree?

Prabhupada: So if you want to take little rest, we can arrange for that. Resting.

George Harrison: Rest?

Prabhupada: Yes, for you.

George Harrison: No, no.

Jayatirtha: I think, Srila Prabhupada, you want to rest.

George Harrison: You take a rest.

Prabhupada: I am taking rest now these twenty-four hours. I have no other business than to take rest. (laughter)

Jayatirtha: Always resting at the lotus feet of Sri Krsna.

Prabhupada: That is real rest.

krsna tvadiya-pada-pankaja-pañjarantam
adyaiva visatu me manasa-raja-hamsaḥ;
prana-prayana-samaye kapha-vata-pittaiḥ;
kaná¹­havarodhana-vidhau smaranam kutas te
[MM 33]

The Mukunda-mala-stotra... There was a big emperor, Samrat(?), Kulasekhara, emperor Kulasekhara, he was a great devotee. So he wrote some poetry. Formerly, kings were so advanced, rajarsi. They are king, at the same time, saintly persons. In the Bhagavad-gita also it is said imam rajarsayo viduḥ; [Bg. 4.2]—this science of Bhagavad-gita was learned by the rajarsis. People were happy therefore. The head, or the executive, they were all saintly persons. So this Kulasekhara, he writes in the beginning of his poetry, "Krsna, O Krsna..." Krsna tvadiya-pada-pankaja-pañjarantam. The pankaja means lotus flower. So Krsna's lotus feet is just like lotus flower. The lotus flower has stem down, and the swans, they take pleasure to go down the water and entangled by the stem. Have you seen their pleasure? Yes. That is their great sporting, to be entangled by the stem and come out, in this way, go deep, this is their sporting. So this Kulasekhara is praying, "My Lord Krsna, let my swan of mind be entangled with the stem of Your lotus feet." Krsna tvadiya-pada-pankaja-pañjarantam adyaiva: "Immediately"—visatu—"let enter." Who? Adyaiva visatu me, "My," manasa-raja-hamsaḥ;, "my mind, which is just like a swan." So why adyaiva, immediately? He says that prana-prayana-samaye, "At the time of death," prana-prayana-samaye kapha-vata-pittaiḥ;, "when the physical condition of the body will be in disorder," kapha, pitta, vayu will not be in order.... Prana-prayana-samaye kapha-vata-pittaiḥ; kanṭhavarodha, "At that time I shall not be able to speak. I'll 'ahn, ahn,' but that's all. So I may not be able to chant Hare Krsna. Better I am now in good health, so let my mind be entangled in the stem of Your lotus feet." Very nice poetry.

krsna tvadiya-pada-pankaja-panjarantam
adyaiva visatu me manasa-raja-hamsaḥ;
prana-prayana-samaye kapha-vata-pittaiḥ;
kaná¹­havarodhana-vidhau smaranam kutas te
[MM 33]

"At that time I may be not able to utter 'Krsna' or think of You, and now I am healthy, let me finish this business." That means "Let me die immediately. Now I'm healthy, I'm quite fit." This is the ideal. Ante narayana-smrtiḥ; [SB 2.1.6]. At the time of death, if one remembers Krsna, then his life is successful. Immediately he goes to Krsna. Just like Ajamila. He chanted "Narayana," and immediately his path to Vaikuntha become clear. So this practice means, whatever we practice all through life, there is chance of coming that remembrance at the time of death, and then it is successful, life is success. If at the time of death one can remember Krsna, then his whole life is successful. Our one student, Karttikeya, his mother was very fortunate. So his mother had nothing to do with this Society, but the boy was attached, and she heard several times "Krsna," that this boy is attached to Krsna. At the time of her death, she asked her son, "Is your Krsna here?" and died. Just see how fortunate she is. She simply uttered this word, "Is your Krsna here?" then she died. Very fortunate. So on account of her son she got salvation. Otherwise, Karttikeya told me that he went to see his mother, and the mother was going to ball dance, and the mother did not receive him well. "All right, you sit down. I'll come again." She was such lady. But by Krsna's grace, at the time of death, she inquired her son, "Is your Krsna here?" Very fortunate.

George Harrison: When my mother died I had to send my sister and father out of the room, because they were getting emotional, and I just chanted Hare Krsna.

Prabhupada: She chanted.

George Harrison: I did.

Prabhupada: Oh, very nice, so she could hear?

George Harrison: I don't know, I don't know, she was in like a coma or something. It was the only thing I could think of.

Prabhupada: When it happened?

George Harrison: In 1970. It was the only thing I could think of that may be of value, you know.

Prabhupada: Anyway, if she has heard Hare Krsna, she'll get the benefit. Either she chants or somebody chanting, if she hears, sravanam kirtanam, both the same thing. Little chance. Svalpam apy asya dharmasya trayate mahato bhayat. So let us practice in such a way that at the time of death we may remember. That is success. Tyaktva deham punar janma naiti mam eti kaunteya [Bg. 4.9]. So you are reading Krsna repeatedly? Krsna book you are reading repeatedly?

George Harrison: Well, you know, I read it every so often. I always take the Gita with me wherever I go. I mean that's the one I just keep all the time. But you know, I'll just sometimes read a little of something, a little bit of something else. I've never been a great reader.

Prabhupada: (laughs) No, you have got chance here to think soberly. But on account of your chanting "Krsna" so many people are chanting.

George Harrison: I don't think it's on my account.

Prabhupada: No, they say "George chants Hare Krsna." They say. Do they not?

Mukunda: Yes.

Prabhupada: And you have got many thousands followers.

George Harrison: It's nice, but I think we all...

Prabhupada: Anyway, you go on chanting. That will influence. There is a poetry written by, I think in the Caitanya-caritamrta. Rupa Gosvami is wondering, "I do not know what sweetness there is in these two words, Krs-na."

Gurudasa: The verse starts with priya, "dear."

Prabhupada: Varna-dvayi. You remember this verse? No jane, "What kind of nectar it is there in these two words, Krs-na?" You have seen Deity today? No, it was closed.

George Harrison: It was closed.

Jayatirtha: It's open again now.

Prabhupada: When it is open?

Jayatirtha: It's open now, the arati is going on.

Prabhupada: Oh. Sometimes you can come and stay here, see the arati, at least one day, whole program, how they are doing. What is the program whole day?

Jayatirtha: It starts at four-fifteen, the arati, then we worship Tulasi-devi, chant japa and have class, and then prasadam eight-fifteen. Then during the day we all work, and in the evening again, seven o'clock, everyone comes together for the arati, class.

George Harrison: How is that school in Texas, you know, with all the children?

Gurudasa: Gurukula.

Jayatirtha: They have six schools now, other than that. This place in France, they have a school there, this farm, and in Dallas, Los Angeles, Pennsylvania, Mayapur.

Hari-sauri: Vrndavana Gurukula also was started.

George Harrison: There's all kinds of strange things written in those newspapers, Dallas, strange things. Particularly about the little children's school.

Hari-sauri: It's because they don't bother to find out before they write things.

Gurudasa: Just like they said that the children sleep in the basement. That's because it was in the hot summer. Everyone goes to the basement in the summer in Dallas.

Mukunda: The kids don't feel any difficulty at all sleeping on the floor. Children are naturally austere. It's just after you get to a certain age that conditioning affects you.

Devotee: They say they live without furniture. (laughter)

Gurudasa: They're prejudiced about those things.

Jayatirtha: They have to eat with their hands. (laughter)

Prabhupada: You have got the last copy of Seventh Canto?

Hari-sauri: Seven, Three?

Prabhupada: Yes.

Mukunda: There's some books that came out since I brought those last books.

George Harrison: There's also somebody, I think it was a guy who was trying to get his wife back or something. (laughs) I know it was in California, and he was saying "They've stolen my wife." These stories kill me, I mean it's so funny because the way...

Prabhupada: Find out this verse, brahmacari gurukule.

Hari-sauri: I think that's in Seven, Two.

Harikesa: Sixteenth Chapter, first verse, I think. It's the first verse, brahmacari gurukule.

Jayatirtha: One man came to the temple, he heard that his daughter had participated in one of our fire sacrifices, and he was afraid that...

George Harrison: Fire sacrifices?

Jayatirtha: When we have initiations we have a fire sacrifice. He was afraid that she had been sacrificed. (laughter)

Hari-sauri:

sri-narada uvaca
brahmacari guru-kule
vasan danto guror hitam
acaran dasavan nico
gurau sudrḍha-sauhrdaḥ;
[SB 7.12.1]

"Narada Muni said, A student should practice completely controlling his senses. He should be submissive and should have an attitude of firm friendship for the spiritual master. With a great vow, the brahmacari should live at the gurukula, only for the benefit of the guru."

Prabhupada: Next.

Pradyumna:

sayam pratar upasita
gurv-agny-arka-surottaman
sandhye ubhe ca yata-vag
japan brahma samahitaḥ;

"At both junctions of day, namely, in the early morning and in the evening, he should be fully absorbed in thoughts of the spiritual master, fire, the sun-god and Lord Visnu, and by chanting the Gayatri mantra he should worship them."

Prabhupada: Go on reading.

Pradyumna:

chandamsy adhiyita guror
ahutas cet suyantritaḥ;
upakrame 'vasane ca
caranau sirasa namet

"Being called by the spiritual master, the student should study the Vedic mantras regularly. Every day, before beginning his studies and at the end of his studies, the disciple should respectfully offer obeisances unto the spiritual master."

mekhalajina-vasamsi
jaṭa-danḍa-kamanḍalun
bibhryad upavitam ca
darbha-panir yathoditam

"Carrying pure kusa grass in his hand, the brahmacari should dress regularly with a belt of straw and with deerskin garments. He should wear matted hair, carry a rod and waterpot, and be decorated with a sacred thread, as recommended in the sastras."

sayam pratas cared bhaiksyam
gurave tan nivedayet
bhuñjita yady anujñato
no ced upasvaset kvacit

"The brahmacari should go out morning and evening to collect alms, and he should offer all that he collects to the spiritual master. He should eat only if ordered to take food by the spiritual master; otherwise, if the spiritual master does not give this order, he may sometimes have to fast."

susilo mita-bhug daksaḥ;
sraddadhano jitendriyaḥ;
yavad-artham vyavaharet
strisu stri-nirjitesu ca

"A brahmacari should be quite well behaved and gentle and should not eat or collect more than necessary. He must always be active and expert, fully believing in the instructions of the spiritual master and the sastra. Fully controlling his senses, he should associate only as much as necessary with women or those controlled by women."

varjayet pramada-gatham
agrhastho brhad-vrataḥ;
indriyani pramathini
haranty api yater manaḥ;

"A brahmacari, or one who has not accepted the grhastha asrama (family life), must rigidly avoid talking with women or about women, for the senses are so powerful that they may agitate even the mind of a sannyasi, a member of the renounced order of life."

kesa-prasadhanonmarda-
snapanabhyañjanadikam
guru-stribhir yuvatibhiḥ;
karayen natmano yuva

"If the wife of the spiritual master is young, a young brahmacari should not allow her to care for his hair, massage his body with oil, or bathe him with affection like a mother."

nanvagniḥ; pramada nama
ghrta-kumbha-samaḥ; puman
sutam api raho jahyad
anyada yavad-artha-krt

"Woman is compared to fire, and man is compared to a butter pot. Therefore a man should avoid associating even with his own daughter in a secluded place. Similarly, he should also avoid association with other women. One should associate with women only for important business and not otherwise."

kalpayitvatmana yavad
abhasam idam isvaraḥ;
dvaitam tavan na viramet
tato hy asya viparyayaḥ;

"As long as a living entity is not completely self-realized—as long as he is not independent of the misconception of identifying with his body, which is nothing but a reflection of the original body and senses—he cannot be relieved of the conception of duality, which is epitomized by the duality between man and woman. Thus there is every chance that he will fall down because his intelligence is bewildered."

etat sarvam grhasthasya
samamnatam yater api
guru-vrttir vikalpena
grhasthasyartu-gaminaḥ;

"All the rules and regulations apply equally to the householder and the sannyasi, the member of the renounced order of life. The grhastha, however, is given permission by the spiritual master to indulge in sex during the period favorable for procreation."

añjanabhyañjanonmarda-
stry-avalekhamisam madhu
srag-gandha-lepalankarams
trajeyur ye brhad-vrataḥ;

"Brahmacaris or grhasthas who have taken the vow of celibacy as described above should not indulge in the following: applying powder or ointment to the eyes, massaging the head with oil, massaging the body with the hands, seeing a woman or painting a woman's picture, eating meat, drinking wine, decorating the body with flower garlands, smearing scented ointment on the body, or decorating the body with ornaments. These they should give up."

usitvaivam guru-kule
dvijo 'dhityavabudhya ca
trayim sangopanisadam
yavad-artham yatha-balam

dattva varam anujñato
guroḥ; kamam yadisvaraḥ;
grham vanam va praviset
pravrajet tatra va vaset

"According to the rules and regulations mentioned above, one who is twice-born, namely a brahmana, ksatriya or vaisya, should reside in the gurukula under the care of the spiritual master. There he should study and learn all the Vedic literatures along with their supplements and Upanisads, according to his ability and power to study. If possible, the student or disciple should reward the spiritual master with the remuneration the spiritual master requests, and then, following the master's order, the disciple should leave and accept one of the other asramas, namely the grhastha asrama, vanaprastha asrama, or sannyasa asrama, as he desires."

Prabhupada: So this is my copy?

Hari-sauri: Yes.

Prabhupada: You can give.

Hari-sauri: This is Prabhupada's latest book just came out.

George Harrison: Hare Krsna. What was it he was saying? I thought you were going to read out of here something about Krs-na, the two...

Pradyumna: This was about the brahmacari in the gurukula, in the school, what a young child should learn to practice.

George Harrison: Yes. But I thought you were saying something about the sound of the two sounds of Krs and na.

Prabhupada: Ah, krsneti varna-dvayi.

Gurudasa: Ah, yes. "I wish I had ten thousand ears to hear the sweet sound of Krsna, and ten thousand tongues to say it."

George Harrison: So this isn't..., I didn't get this one?

Mukunda: Not yet, no. That's latest. It just came out.

George Harrison: Seventh Canto, Part Three.

Hari-sauri: They bring the first two copies to Srila Prabhupada wherever he is. This we got in New York just before we left.

Gurudasa: It's right off the press.

Prabhupada: These pictures are made by our boys.

George Harrison: Yes, beautiful.

Prabhupada: They are learning more and more.

Hari-sauri: This one is very good because it explains the breakdown of the social positions.

George Harrison: Hm?

Hari-sauri: The varnasrama system. It's very good.

Prabhupada: This instruction of Srimad-Bhagavatam was never given before in the Western countries. This is the first time.

George Harrison: Yes.

Prabhupada: Therefore they're appreciating. We are selling our books daily sixty thousand dollars. All over the world.

Mukunda: Srila Prabhupada, you're going to outdo Shakespeare soon. You'll have written more English words than William Shakespeare. (Prabhupada laughs) Maybe you already have.

Hari-sauri: I don't think Shakespeare's brought out fifty-six books.

Mukunda: The Encyclopedia Brittanica wrote to us asking for...

Prabhupada: They have said...

George Harrison: These books are such a lot of work. I don't know how he did it all.

Gurudasa: While everyone else sleeps, Prabhupada...

George Harrison: Yes.

Prabhupada: At night I don't sleep. Not that because I am nowadays sick. But generally I don't sleep. At most two hours. At most.

Hari-sauri: I think it's a long time since you've taken any rest at night.

Prabhupada: I take little rest during daytime. So on the whole, three to four hours. But actually I do not like to sleep.

George Harrison: No, it's a waste of time.

Prabhupada: I think it is, when I go to sleep, I think that now I'm going to waste my time. I actually think like that.

George Harrison: What's the word for..., the call it a little, little death. Sleep is the little death.

Prabhupada: The sastra also, Prahlada Maharaja describes the sleeping is waste of time. You find out that verse.

Hari-sauri: It's in Seven, Two?

Prabhupada: Seventh Canto. He's estimating you have got hundred years at most. Out of that, fifty years lost, sleep. And then twenty years playing as child, a boy. And in old age, another...

Hari-sauri:

pumso varsa-satam hy ayus
tad-ardham cajitatmanaḥ;
nisphalam yad asau ratryam
sete 'ndham prapitas tamaḥ;
[SB 7.6.6]

"Every human being has a maximum duration of life of one hundred years, but for one who cannot control his senses, half of those years are completely lost because at night he sleeps twelve hours, being covered by ignorance. Therefore such a person has a lifetime of only fifty years."

Prabhupada: Fifty years immediately minus. Then out of the fifty years?

Hari-sauri:

mugdhasya balye kaisore
kriḍato yati vimsatiḥ;
jaraya grasta-dehasya
yaty akalpasya vimsatiḥ;
[SB 7.6.7]

"In the tender age of childhood, when everyone is bewildered, one passes ten years. Similarly, in boyhood, engaged in sporting and playing, one passes another ten years. In this way, twenty years are wasted. Similarly, in old age, when one is an invalid, unable to perform even material activities, one passes another twenty years wastefully."

durapurena kamena
mohena ca baliyasa
sesam grhesu saktasya
pramattasyapayati hi
[SB 7.6.8]

"One whose mind and senses are uncontrolled becomes increasingly attached to family life because of insatiable lusty desires and very strong illusion. In such a madman's life the remaining years are also wasted, because even during those years he cannot engage himself in devotional service."

Prabhupada: So hundred years finish. (laughs) Fifty years, twenty years, twenty years and ten years.

George Harrison: Which volume is that?

Hari-sauri: This is the one before that one.

George Harrison: Part Two.

Hari-sauri: Yes. This is Prahlada Maharaja's instructions.

Prabhupada: You can give that volume also.

George Harrison: Did you, do you.... I'm not too sure which ones I've got up to.

Mukunda: He's got up to.... You've got about two more coming before that. I'll give them to you.

Prabhupada: Krsna varna-dvayi, you have got that?

Jayatirtha: I found that verse. Actually, Rancor found it. Tunḍe tanḍavini ratim vitanute tunḍavali-ladbhaye.

Prabhupada: Yes. Pradyumna? You just note down this verse and give him.

Jayatirtha: And the translation is "I do not know how much nectar the two syllables 'krs-na' have produced. When the holy name of Krsna is chanted, it appears to dance within the mouth. We then desire many, many mouths. When that name enters the holes of the ears, we desire many millions of years. And when the holy name dances in the courtyard of the heart, it conquers the activities of the mind, and therefore all the senses become inert." That was Rupa Gosvami.

Prabhupada: That is very nice poetry. Read it gain. Tunḍe tanḍavini...

Jayatirtha: The English? I don't chant very well. Harikesa Maharaja.

Prabhupada: Yes, you first of all recite. Very nice.

Pradyumna:

tunḍe tanḍavini ratim vitanute tunḍavali-ladbhaye
karna-kroḍa-kaḍambini ghaṭayate karnarbudebhyaḥ;
sprham cetaḥ;-prangana-sangini vijayate sarvendriyanam krtim
no jane janita kiyadbhir amrtaiḥ; krsneti varna-dvayi

Prabhupada: One thing you can record and give him.

Hari-sauri: I'll make a copy of this tape and give it to him.

Prabhupada: Yes. No, you should recite very properly, and then it will recorded. Then it will be right.

George Harrison: This is Sanskrit.

Jayatirtha: That's Sanskrit.

Prabhupada: In India, all different states they have got different alphabets, but the Sanskrit is the same. There is no change in Sanskrit. India's culture, all the provinces, they talk a little Sanskrit. If you chant this mantra according to the Sanskrit tune, oh, your admirers will take it very nicely. (laughter) And that will be a great benefit to the mass of people.

George Harrison: I don't know if they'd like it.

Prabhupada: Yes. (laughs)

George Harrison: They don't understand. Already they don't understand such a lot. Even if you say it in English. Even when you say things to them in English, they don't understand.

Prabhupada: That word Krsna, if they hear, that will be sufficient.

George Harrison: We were in Vrndavana, somebody, we were singing, singing in the morning, singing this "Jaya Krsna."

Prabhupada: Sri Krsna Caitanya.

George Harrison: And he asked, this person said to me, "You should make it into a song in English." So I wrote English verses, and in each chorus it as "jaya krsna, jaya krsna, krsna krsna, jaya krsna, jaya sri krsna; jaya radhe, jaya radhe, radhe, jaya radhe, jaya sri radhe." I don't know, did you..., if you heard that song. It was on that "Extra Texture"—you know that one? "He who..." I wrote the English words. "He whose eyes have seen what our lives have been, and who we really are—it is He, jaya sri krsna." And then it has a chorus. "He whose sweetness flows to any one of those that cares to look His way, see His smile, jaya sri radhe," then the chorus again.

Mukunda: This is on George's new record.

George Harrison: No, it was last year. And "He who is complete, three worlds at His feet, cause of every star, it is He, jaya sri krsna." It's a nice song. But I took the old, the tune that we sang in Vrndavana, and just make slightly different, you know, with chords, chord patterns.

Prabhupada: So in your next record, you can give this. (laughter)

George Harrison: [break] ...this little girl, he had a baby girl and was trying to think of a name, so I told him to call it Dhara, you know? 'Cause from Radha-radharadharadha—it becomes dhara. So he called his girl that name.

Jayatirtha: There's a story of Valmiki, you know that story?

Gurudasa: Maramaramaramaramaramara.

Jayatirtha: Valmiki was a murderer, or a dacoit, thief. So he was met by Narada Muni, I think.

Prabhupada: Yes, Valmiki.

Jayatirtha: And he was advised by Narada Muni to please chant the holy name of the Lord and give up this thievery. So he wouldn't. So instead Narada Muni said, "You chant mara." Mara means death. So he agreed.

Prabhupada: Maramara, rama.

Jayatirtha: Later on, this Valmiki, he wrote the Ramayana after having chanting rama, mara, he became purified.

Hari-sauri: Transcendental trickery.

Jayatirtha: All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

Prabhupada: Jaya. (end)