Madhavananda: ...year. And it rises also very early.

Prabhupada: Why, in different season, the day is longer and shorter?

Raksana: The time that Lord Vivasvan takes to travel across the sky differs.

Prabhupada: Who travels? You say.(?) Sun is fixed up, they say.

Devotee: According to their theory, it is fixed up.

Prabhupada: According to our theory.... We don't say theory. According to Bhagavata statement, in this season, the sun runs slow. In the other season, the sun runs fast. That is understandable. But if the sun is fixed up, why in some season if is going fast and some season it is going slow?

Madhavananda: Their theory is because the earth is tilted on an axis, that during the winter season the sun is hitting at a different angle, and therefore it's different time. They say that the earth is rotating also, and the axis is turning from one side to the other, so that north is sometimes...

Prabhupada: Where is the question of going fast and slow?

Jayadvaita: They say that because the smaller portion of the earth..., the earth is spherical, and by the top it's smaller, so when that top side is pointed toward the sun, the sun is, as the earth turns, the sun is hitting each place sooner in each day. So it's going, traveling less distance on that surface. Then when it turns the other way, it has to go more distance. Some..., they have some concocted idea. (laughter)

Prabhupada: (laughing) All concoction. That is not explanation. This is nice explanation, that in this season the sun goes faster and in this season the sun goes slower. That is quite understandable. Just like you are walking. Sometimes you walk slow, sometimes you walk fast. That is possible. (pause) So you can convert the down room, one of the down room as reception, like this. This should be Deity room.

Hari-sauri: They'd have to section that big room off, though, to make a Deity room there. It would considerably reduce the size of that room.

Prabhupada: Which room?

Hari-sauri: This big room upstairs? I was just looking because you mentioned it. But then they'd have to put a section for the Deities, so the actual temple space left would be very small.

Prabhupada: No, it is bigger hall than the down.

Hari-sauri: It's not very much bigger.

Prabhupada: I think...

Madhavananda: Well, his point is right also that the Deity, actually the space the Deities take up on the altar is the same exact..., it's actually the same length, but it seems smaller because of the Deity room being excluded in the top portion. But if we section off a space for the Deities, then it would be considerably smaller.

Prabhupada: You take length and breadth of both. Then we shall.

Madhavananda: All right.

Hari-sauri: The advantage downstairs is that they already have the archway section there also in the room behind, but there's not so much facility upstairs.

Prabhupada: That we can make. (long pause) I think this part of the year is very nice, June-July? No. June-July...?

Madhavananda: This is the best.

Prabhupada: Or May-June-July. How many months?

Madhavananda: It begins in the last part of May and it ends at the beginning part of September.

Prabhupada: So May, June, July, August, at least four months. Four months. (long pause)

Jayadvaita: At the college programs, Satsvarupa Maharaja and I have been giving a lot of classes on varnasrama-dharma. Because they always want to hear something about the Hindu caste system, so they'll take us on that basis. And then we speak about varnasrama-dharma. And they don't have any idea to defeat it. They always, some little weak argument, but they don't have any better system.

Prabhupada: What is their argument?

Jayadvaita: Hardly.... Well, they have some idea, they argue that there's no social mobility, because they all have some bodily idea that caste by birth.

Prabhupada: No, that is not the fact.

Jayadvaita: No.

Prabhupada: The qualification.

Jayadvaita: When we present the real idea, then they're just sitting there, they have no argument. And then we challenge their system, that "What is the purpose of your society? What is the goal of it?" and they can't say anything.

Prabhupada: Unless there is division of activity, nothing can be done perfectly well. The natural division is there in the body—the head, the arms, the belly and the legs. Similarly, in the social body also there must be the heads, the intelligent class of men, brahmana. Then everything will go on smoothly. And, at the present moment, there is no intelligent class of men. All laborer, worker class of men, fourth class. No first class, second class. Therefore society is in chaotic condition. There is no brain.

Jayadvaita: Their only objection, when we present that there's brahmacari, grhastha, vanaprastha, sannyasa, then they become automatically hostile, because they understand that we're against sense gratification.

Prabhupada: Yes. Sense gratification is animal civilization. And sense control is human civ.... Sense gratification is not human society. Sense gratification is not human civilization. That they do not know. Their central point is sense gratification. That is the defect. They are running on an animal civilization as human civilization. That is the defect. Sense gratification is animal civilization. And actually they are animals. If they can kill their own child, it is animal. Just like cats, dogs, they kill their own child. What is that? It is animal civilization. Who was talking that child is put into the, what is that, left luggage?

Hari-sauri: Left-luggage lockers. Trivikrama Maharaja, in Japan. He said over two hundred thousand, uh, twenty thousand babies, they put them in a left-luggage locker and leave them.

Prabhupada: Bus way station? Railway station? Leave luggage. Put it and lock it, then not coming back. Then when there is bad smell.... This is going on. This is simply animal civilization. Taking the last drop of milk from the cow and immediately send it to the slaughterhouse. They are doing like that. Before sending to the slaughterhouse, they draw out the last drop of milk from the cow. And immediately killing. So you require the milk, you are taking so much milk, without milk you cannot.... And the animal from whom you take milk, she's your mother. They forget this. Mother supplies milk, she supplies milk from her body, and you are killing the mother? Is that civilization? Killing mother? And milk is necessary. Therefore you are taking the last drop of it. Otherwise, what is the use of taking the last drop of milk from the cow? It is necessary. So why not let her live and supply you milk, and you can make hundreds and thousands of very nourishing palatable preparation from milk? Where is that intelligence? Milk is nothing but transformation of the blood. So instead of taking the blood, take the transformation and live nicely, like honest gentlemen. No. They are not even gentlemen. Rogues, uncivilized. If you want to take meat, you can kill some insignificant animals like hogs and dogs which have no use. You can eat them, if you at all eat. That was allowed, hogs and dogs are allowed. Because no gentleman class will take meat. It is lower class. So they were allowed, "All right, you can take hogs, svapaca." Lower class of men, they were taking hogs and dogs. Still, they are taking. So if you want meat, you can kill these unimportant animals. Why you are killing the animal whose last drop of milk you require? What is the sense? And as soon as you take Krsna, He killed Putana but gave her the position of the mother. Because Krsna felt obliged, that "Whatever the Putana's intention may be, but I sucked her breast, so she's My mother." So we are taking milk from the cow. The cow is not my mother? Who can live without milk? And who has not taken cow's milk? Immediately, in the morning, you require milk. And the animal, she's supplying milk, she's not mother? What is the sense? Mother-killing civilization. And they want to be happy. And periodically there is great war and wholesale massacre, reaction. (pause) You make it nice garden. Next year I shall come. From May, I shall stay here May, June, July. (devotees laugh)

Madhavananda: We will have many flowers.

Prabhupada: I find this place is the best than all our places. Huh? What do you think?

Hari-sauri: Definitely.

Prabhupada: Specially this building on the riverside. Water is there.

Madhavananda: Maybe, Srila Prabhupada, you would like to stay a little longer this year?

Prabhupada: I have got engagements; otherwise I would have stayed here. Already engagement is there. I want to return by fourteenth August in India. Otherwise, I would have stayed here and see things are nicely done. Anyway.

Jayadvaita: They've been after you for so long in New Vrindaban.

Prabhupada: New Vrindaban climatic condition is not so good. Here the climatic condition is good. Four months this climate is very good. It is in the central part of America?

Madhavananda: Little north.

Prabhupada: North. So north is supposed to be cooler.

Hari-sauri: In the winter it's not so good. Winter's very bad.

Prabhupada: Winter eight months? No. In winter this water becomes solid. You know that?

Satsvarupa: Sometimes in Detroit there's three foot of snow, and the winter is, it's a very deep winter here, but the summer is nice.

Prabhupada: You convince your countrymen that "It is a great sinful activity that you are killing your mother. You stop this. If you want to eat meat, you can eat some other, nonimportant animals. There are so many." The Chinese they are eating rats also. Cats, rats, everything.

Devotee: Monkeys.

Prabhupada: Monkeys also. So monkey's the forefather of Darwin. Better kill them so that there is no opportunity of criticism that "You are coming from monkey." You extinct this species. It is rather insulting. If I say that you are descendant of monkey, then it is insult. So extinct this monkey. I don't think there is monkey here. Africa there is monkey. You have been in Africa? There are monkey-eating birds. Top of the tree, monkey, they catch up on the head and drop it from high. And then they take it. (pause) There was a boat which belonged to this house. I think he has sold it.

Madhavananda: Yes.

Prabhupada: There was no objection.

Madhavananda: He sold it to the lawyer, Ambarisa's lawyer. He did not do a very good job for us, and the proof is that the owner sold the boat to the lawyer. He got a very good deal. So he was working with Groane(?), the former owner.

Prabhupada: In his favor.

Madhavananda: In his favor.

Prabhupada: Cheating.

Madhavananda: Yes. And the boys were not experienced enough to protect the property. Chandeliers were taken, statues, some furniture. It was not done very nicely.

Prabhupada: That means our men were not experienced, Jagadisa and Govardhana. Who else? Who was in charge?

Madhavananda: Govardhana was the president. If the lawyer knows you do not know, then he will take advantage. [break] He measured the two rooms, and the lecture hall length is forty-seven feet and twenty-seven feet wide. And the temple room length from the back to the altar, not including the Deities room, altar, is fifty feet.

Prabhupada: Smaller.

Madhavananda: No, actually larger.

Hari-sauri: Three feet bigger. That's without a Deity room also.

Madhavananda: It's larger. And the width of the temple room is twenty-eight. So if we were to put in the altar in the top room, it would also take ten feet. So that would make thirty-five feet as compared to fifty feet downstairs. So because we don't have that extra space of the temple room, the downstairs actually is bigger. The only difficulty is because there is an upstairs walk we have to walk above the Deity. But if we put a nice domes there it might look very nice also, and then not walk up there. But the space is bigger.

Prabhupada: I thought this space was bigger.

Hari-sauri: It looks bigger, but the temple room is actually very big. It's a good size. Actually, the only reason they need to go above the Deities is just to get into that room where tulasi is, although they open those doors sometimes.

Prabhupada: There is another big room, so add it together. Two rooms, then it will be bigger. (pause) [break] ...with snow.

Satsvarupa: I was thinking of that. About five months, it can even snow here in April, and it snows in December. From December to April. Not that every day, but when it comes, it doesn't go away either.

Prabhupada: These trees become leafless? No.

Madhavananda: Yes. Except for these.

Prabhupada: All other trees become.

Madhavananda: When you are here, it's just exactly like Vrndavana.

Prabhupada: Krsna is here; it is Vrndavana.

Raksana: Wherever His most merciful, confidential associate is.

Jayadvaita: To start this center, it was not at all like Vrndavana. [break]

Madhavananda: It's a channel, actually. It comes in from Lake St. Clair and then it goes around, and there's a bridge there, and just past, one hundred yards, it goes out again. All of this property is owned by one man. His name is Harris. He owns this whole island and all of the land up here also. And up this way there are also many large mansions. Fisher mansions. The same man who built this house built many other mansions up here. But this is the nicest.

Prabhupada: Oh. What for he did it?

Madhavananda: His family members. And then on this island, at the very end, on the lake there is a very, very large mansion called the Garwood Mansion, but it was completely destroyed.

Prabhupada: Why?

Madhavananda: Ah, this man Harris, he wanted to get all the people off of this land that he owned. So he let the hippies and Hell's Angels move into this Garwood Mansion, and they destroyed it. And they raised commotion and disturbance all along. He was trying to get them all to leave. He's a very strange person. Now he's trying to sell everything. They are thinking to make some housing complex. It's a very big business venture. That is why we want to buy this land in front, to protect this side of the house in case anyone else wants to build there.

Prabhupada: They drink this water? No.

Madhavananda: But of all the lakes in this part of the country, this lake is the cleanest. But still it is not clean. They ruin all the waterways with the factories' wastes. When I was flying to Detroit, I passed over the lake and I saw big oil slicks all along the shores.

Dhrsṭadyumna: Just like the Kaliya serpent, poisoning the river. But you have come to dance on their heads, Srila Prabhupada. Sometimes our boys, when they go into the city, they see the big buildings like the teeth of Aghasura. But they say, "Srila Prabhupada will protect us. We will go into the smelly city, we will distribute the books in the belly of the city, but Srila Prabhupada will come and he will protect us." (Prabhupada laughs)

Prabhupada: What price they want for this island?

Madhavananda: Very large amount.

Raksana: We can have a Mayapura complex and a Detroit complex.

Madhavananda: I don't know exactly. [break]

Satsvarupa: ...Sundays ago, one Indian man asked after the Sunday lecture why does Krsna like a peacock feather, or why does Krsna have a peacock feather? So Madhavananda answered, "Because He likes it." And the man said, "This is not an answer. There has to be some reason." So then I said, "You cannot question why Krsna likes something. He's a person." But he wasn't satisfied.

Prabhupada: Krsna is God; whatever He likes, you have to supply. That is God. Why He likes, we cannot question. That is not the business of the servant. So as servant we simply obey the orders. That's all. That is real servant. Is there any instance the servant is asking, "Why you are asking me to supply you this?" Therefore what would be the position of the servant? He would be dismissed. Bhrtyas cottara-dayakaḥ;. That is very dangerous.

dusṭa bharya saṭham mitram
bhrtyas cottara-dayakaḥ;
sa-sarpe ca grhe vaso
mrtyur eva na samsayaḥ;

Dusṭa bharya. If wife is polluted, dusṭa bharya, and saṭham mitram, and friend is a hypocrite.... Dusṭa bharya saṭham mitram. What is that? Bhrtyas cottara-dayakaḥ;, and servant does not obey, gives answer or, yes, if your master asks, "Give me this," if he says, "Why are you asking?" Such kind of bhrtya, servant, and polluted wife and hypocrite friend, three, and a snake within the bedroom.... [break] Family means father, mother, wife, children. Generally this is family. So family members are supposed to be all friendly, in one accord, so that family life is peaceful. But sometimes the family members become enemies. So how they become enemies? That is given by Canakya Panḍita: mata satruḥ;, rna-karta pita satruḥ;. Father is enemy if he's a debtor, he dies a debtor. According to Vedic law, because the son inherits the property of father, he's responsible also for the debts of the father, by law. A father dies debtor, so the creditor can claim from his son. So therefore rna-karta pita satruḥ;. A father who dies a debtor, he's enemy. Mata satrur dvicarini. Mother becomes enemy when she accepts another husband in the presence of children. Mata satrur dvicarini. Ṛna-karta pita satruḥ; is father and mother. Then wife: rupavati bharya satruḥ;. If wife is very beautiful, she's enemy. (laughs) Rupavati bharya satruḥ;. Because he will remain always anxious whether my wife is going with other somebody. And it so happens. (laughs) Rupavati bharya satruḥ;. And putraḥ; satrur apanḍitaḥ;. And son is enemy if he's a rascal. So father, mother, wife, children.

Hari-sauri: And the daughter?

Prabhupada: Daughter is also son. Son and daughter are the same position. If they are not educated, they become burden. Apanḍita, means not educated. Then they become burden, simply eyesore. That is another place he states: varam eko guni putro na ca murkha-satair api. Ko 'rthaḥ; putrena jatena yo na vidvan na bhaktiman. What is the use of such children, of son, who is neither a devotee nor a learned man? So, kanena caksusa kim va caksuḥ; piḍaiva kevalam. Just like blind eyes. What is the use of it? It is simply pains giving. You have got eyes, but if it is diseased, cataract or something, so what is the use of possessing these eyes? Sometimes it becomes so painful that the doctors, they pluck out. You know that? They get out the eyes completely, and decorate with a false eye. This is very delicate place. Even a small grain enters, it gives so much trouble. So if the eye itself is diseased, it is very, very painful. Therefore sometimes he plucks out. Kanena caksusa kim va caksuḥ; piḍaiva kevalam.

Hari-sauri: One of the peacocks has opened its tail.

Madhavananda: Dancing. (pause) Vrtrasura, he said the same thing when he was fighting Lord Indra, that a son who is neither a devotee nor a hero is useless.

Prabhupada: Caitanya Mahaprabhu said if there is no Krsna, then everything is useless. Sunyayitam jagat sarvam govinda-virahena me. (long pause) [break]

Madhavananda: ...attach a rope to the back of the boat and they have wooden skis...

Prabhupada: Plank.

Madhavananda: ...and they ski on the water for sport.

Jayadvaita: Satsvarupa Maharaja and I were at some place where there was a lake, and on Saturday and Sunday so many speedboats with people playing and enjoying, and on Monday, no boats. Everyone was working again.

Prabhupada: They do not want to work. Therefore they take advantage of Sunday. Inclination is not to work. But unfortunately that is not possible. If they do not work, they cannot eat. But if we say that "There is a place, without working you can eat, and for example come to us," they will not accept. Then they will say, "You are escaping. You are escaping." (laughs) If you work, that you don't like, and if somebody does not work, he's escaping.

Hari-sauri: Envy.

Prabhupada: Just see. There is story like that. One saintly person was sitting, and some karmis came, that: "You are escaping, you are not working." So he said, "Why shall I work?" "You'll get money." "So what shall I do with the money?" "Then you can live peacefully." "I am living peacefully. Why shall I work?" (laughs) So they want to earn money, keep a good bank balance, and at the end of the life they want to live very peacefully, without any working. But if somebody is living peacefully without working, they will criticize him. Envious. They will accuse him, "You are escaping." If the end is this, and I shall live peacefully without any work—I am doing that in my own standard—why you are bothering me?

Hari-sauri: Once I was on sankirtana and an old man came up and he was very, very angry. He was so angry he was almost going to hit me, and he was saying, "I'm seventy-three years old, and I have to work every day!" He stopped from his job to come over. And he said, "I'm seventy-three years old, and I still have to work. And here you are on the street, and you're doing nothing," like this, "and I'm so old and I still have work." He was so angry he was almost going to hit me. So envious.

Madhavananda: Sometimes they question, "How can you be happy? You don't drink, you don't smoke, you don't eat meat, and you don't gamble. What can you do?"

Prabhupada: Did you not say that we have got something; the pleasure derived from all these things, that is very inferior. We have got pleasure of superior quality. Therefore we have been able to give it up. That is the fact. But you have no information of the superior pleasure. Therefore sticking to this inferior pleasure.

Madhavananda: In the Srimad-Bhagavatam, when Daksa cursed Lord Siva, he also said that statement that the materialists are always envious of the self-realized souls for their opulence of self-realization.

Prabhupada: [break] ...nature is the mother. So is that correct or not?

Madhavananda: Yes, yes. Mother nature.

Prabhupada: So mother is there and children are there; so why there is no father? They say there is no God. How it is possible? The mother is there and children are there. How it is that there is no father? What is the answer? They say there is no God, or no father?

Madhavananda: They say that there may be God, but no one has even seen Him.

Prabhupada: You might not have seen your father; does it mean there is no father?

Hari-sauri: Then they say what is the relevance of knowing who your father is? We exist, so let's move forward.

Prabhupada: No, no, first of all, thing is that you say there is no God. That is.... Or there is no father. How it can be accepted?

Jayadvaita: They'll say that mother and father..., we see that a human being has a mother and father.

Prabhupada: Everyone has mother and father. Birds, beasts, everyone.

Jayadvaita: But these material things, they don't need mothers and fathers.

Prabhupada: No, there is father, you do not know. You are blind. Bijo 'ham sarva-bhutanam [Bg 7.10]. Aham bija-pradaḥ; pita [Bg. 14.4]. God says there that "I am the seed-giving father." Otherwise, how it is possible to beget children? You are experienced that unless the father gives the seed, there is no question of children. So how they can deny the father? You may have seen or not seen, doesn't matter. But there must be father. Just like Jabala Upanisad, Gautama Muni asked that Satyaka, "Who is your father?" First of all said: "Are you brahmana?" "Sir, I do not know." "Who is your father?" "I do not know." "Go and ask your mother." Mother asked, she said, "I do not remember who is your father." She never denied, that "You had no father; you were automatically born." She never said that. She said only that "I don't remember who is your father." And he wanted.... (aside:) Don't. Want to that service.(?) So the mother said that "I do not remember who is your father." So he said frankly, that "My mother does not remember who is my father." So Gautama Muni accepted him, that "You are so truthful; so you are brahmana. I will accept you." Nobody would like to say that "My mother does not remember who is my father." But he said that. Therefore he accepted him that "You are so truthful. I'll accept you as my disciple." So the point is, the mother said "I do not remember who is your father." But the mother did not say that "You are born without father." That is not possible. So when there is mother, there is children, there must be father. That's a fact. You cannot put any argument. How they can say there is no God? "We have not seen God." What is this nonsense argument. Hm? What will be the answer?

Jayadvaita: We gave a class in a university, and the professor was an atheist. He didn't want us to speak, but he finally agreed we could speak. And after we'd spoken, he gave some argument against us. But he couldn't argue against us. His argument was for us.

Prabhupada: What was that argument? (laughs)

Jayadvaita: He said that two fish are swimming in a tank, and one fish said to the other fish that there must be God because someone must be changing the water in the tank. So he was trying to ridicule that these fish are speculating something. But I just said to the students, "So this is a very good conversation. The fish is intelligent. There must be someone who is running the environment, nature." So he couldn't say anything against us, although he was trying to be a big atheist.

Prabhupada: What was the point?

Jayadvaita: He was trying to show somehow that these foolish fish were speculating something just to make some story that would sound..., that this is a ridiculous thing to think. But it was a very sensible thing to think.

Prabhupada: What is that sensible thing?

Jayadvaita: That the environment is being controlled by someone, not by us. So there is someone superior. So I just said that to his students, "So your professor is giving a good example."

Prabhupada: In our favor.

Jayadvaita: In our favor.

Prabhupada: That's a fact. The fish may be swimming in the water, but a sensible fish must inquire that "Who has created this water?" He is enjoying in the water, or in the land, so the enquiry should be, "Who's land it is?" We are demarkating this land "mine," he has demarkated this land "mine," but originally, who is the owner of this land? Isavasyam idam sarvam [Iso mantra 1]. Everything is God's property. That is natural. And God said, bhoktaram yajña-tapasam sarva-loka-mahesvaram [Bg. 5.29]. Somebody must be proprietor. I am proprietor of this land. Who is the proprietor of this water? That is natural question. If somebody is proprietor of this land, then somebody must be proprietor of that water.

Madhavananda: You once asked that same question to Kenneth Keating in Delhi. You said, "You say that this is America, but who owns America?" He could not answer.

Prabhupada: Ksetra-jñam capi mam viddhi sarva-ksetresu bharata [Bg. 13.3]. The best thing is to follow the formula given by Krsna: na mam duskrtino muḍhaḥ; prapadyante naradhamaḥ; [Bg. 7.15]. As soon as one denies the supremacy of God, he is either sinful, rascal, lowest of the mankind, in these categories. This is the qualification. So we shall take things very simplified. As soon as we see somebody not Krsna conscious, immediately we take him in either of these groups. That's all. Then if he objects, then you come to argument. Hmm? What do you think?

Madhavananda: In argument, we can never be defeated.

Prabhupada: So in the school, college classes, there is sometimes argument?

Satsvarupa: All the time. (laughter) We always save half the time for questions, and immediately, "How do you know that that is true?" All challenging. "Why should I believe?" "How could God present the scriptures?" All faithless.

Jayadvaita: In this part of the country, I think the students, generally they admit there is God. They're a little pious in this central portion. There are so many farms and they're not so deteriorated.

Prabhupada: Polluted.

Jayadvaita: But then they don't accept that Krsna consciousness is the only process for understanding God. They want to maintain Christian religion, or.... Not Christian religion, but sense gratification and, at the same time, God consciousness.

Prabhupada: Well we are not denying sense gratification. We want to regulate. That's all.

Madhavananda: Actually, we have the best sense gratification.

Prabhupada: Hmm? Yes.

Madhavananda: On the radio program, one lady, she was asking questions. She was very envious. "And you are living in such a palace."

Prabhupada: Why shall I not? Government servants, they live in the best place. We are Krsna's servants, the supreme government. We must have the best car, best house, the best food, (laughter) everything. You are unfortunate, you are wretched, you cannot possess this. We are government's servants. Why the governor is living in the best house of the city?

Madhavananda: We said, "You can live here with us." She said, "Thank you."

Prabhupada: Without any charges. Did you not say? But as soon as you shall say there is no tea, he'll go away. "Oh, horrible." (laughter) Just see. And you have to rise early in the morning. "Oh, it's still horrible." And chant Hare Krsna. "Ah, still."

Hari-sauri: There are so many apparent contradictions in our life-style, the karmis are just baffled. They see us living in a big nice house and enjoying such nice grounds and everything, and then we tell them we get up at three-thirty and take a cold bath and do so many..., and we don't drink or smoke or anything. They can't understand.

Satsvarupa: The Sunday newspaper here a month ago did a very big story, the whole front cover. And it was called "Krsna Consciousness: Salvation or Slavery."

Hari-sauri: That was that article that you saw in Honolulu.

Madhavananda: These are our two biggest book distributors of the women-Lekhasravanti and mother Jagadhatri.

Prabhupada: Hmm.

Madhavananda: They claim that when we chant, we hypnotize ourselves.

Prabhupada: And still we save expenditure. You hypnotize by drinking. (laughter) We haven't got to pay for that, whiskey bottle. That is also hypnotizing. You want to forget all day's labor by drinking. That is also hypnotizing. Or by gambling. So we also hypnotize. Better hypnotizing method.

Jayadvaita: In New York, you argued that it may be hypnotizing, but by this hypnosis we get people to give up gambling, intoxication, meat-eating and illicit sex. So it should be adopted.

Srutakirti:( break) ...some very interesting statistics this morning about drinkers in this country.

Dhrsṭadyumna: My father, he's the president of this liquor company, and they study the charts to see who is drinking the most. And they have discovered that the biggest drinkers in the world are the politicians in Washington, D.C., that they drink more liquor than anyone.

Prabhupada: Yes. They have got so many anxieties. So many anxieties.

Dhrsṭadyumna: And how can they manage nicely when they are always intoxicated?

Hari-sauri: When we were running our political format in Melbourne—one of the boys was going for some positioning in the state—he was quoted in the newspapers. They picked it out as the quote of the week, because they asked him, they said, "What would be the first thing, if you are elected, you will do?" So he said, "I would abolish the bar in the House of Parliament." So they said, "Oh, why would you do that?" He said "How can you rule a country when you're intoxicated all the time?" So they picked it out and put it in the newspapers as the quote of the week.

Prabhupada: Who said?

Hari-sauri: In Melbourne, in one of the papers.

Prabhupada: Our man said?

Hari-sauri: Yes.

Prabhupada: Very good argument, that these drunkards, rascals, how you can rule over the country? You are always intoxicated.

Dhrsṭadyumna: Actually, the general mass of American people, if they hear this, they will respect us very much. Just like we were staying in the campsites. The little children, they come to the aratis, then they go back to their campsite, and they told, "Oh mommy, daddy, come see this wonderful bus." So they bring their fathers to Bhagavad-gita class, and we were lecturing to the fathers of all these children. And afterwards they were all giving donations and taking Bhagavad-gitas. Because they are very much upset about the country, but they have no solution.

Prabhupada: No.

Dhrsṭadyumna: And then we can give alternatives.

Madhavananda: In a recent issue of Newsweek magazine, there was a very large article about Washington, D.C. politicians-congressmen and senators being exposed by the press for going out with prostitutes and taking money and misspending. Big expose, scandal.

Prabhupada: What is that sound? Airplane?

Madhavananda: There is a very large factory over there. You can see the smokestacks. What is it? What kind of factory? Electrical company.

Prabhupada: We have got open place, but not very pleasant. You cannot sit down for a long time. The wind is cold.

Madhavananda: Very beautiful here, all over the grounds. There's also very beautiful places over there and all over.

Prabhupada: So develop it nicely. [break] ...fruit and flower trees. Mango trees, all fruits, banana, papaya, jackfruit, apple, guava...

Hari-sauri: Pineapple.

Prabhupada: Pineapple. And flowers.

Hari-sauri: They have lots of gardenias there. (peacock crying in background)

Prabhupada: Where you got this?

Madhavananda: Ann Arbor, Michigan, a farm. They raise peacocks on different farms. (loud call of peacock)

Hari-sauri: It sounds just like Vrndavana in the morning.

Prabhupada: [break] ...also. The evening begins at eleven, half past twelve. And morning, at four o'clock. A few hours only. That is also not complete dark.

Hari-sauri: Moscow is very far north, very northerly.

Prabhupada: I think I went there in June, in month of June.

Madhavananda: When you went to Moscow, it was the mango season in India.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Madhavananda: Because I remember when you went, someone said, "You will miss the mango season, Srila Prabhupada." And you said, "Preaching in the snows of Russia is more sweet than any mango." (Prabhupada laughs)

Hari-sauri: Even though you went there in the early summer, there was no fruits or anything. No flowers.

Prabhupada: Only these...

Hari-sauri: Strawberries.

Prabhupada: They simply eat meat, that's all. And some milk preparation.

Hari-sauri: They can't even do that now. Someone was saying that they restrict them now. One day a week they have to eat fish because there is not enough meat.

Prabhupada: Oh.

Hari-sauri: So they force them to eat fish now. (laughs) It's very bad.

Madhavananda: They are breeding.... In the airport we met one man; he is working on breeding a large bull, cattle. They breed cows for slaughter. So they are breeding now a very large cattle. They grow very, very.... it's called, instead of buffalo, they've named it beefalo.

Jayadvaita: They crossed buffalo.

Madhavananda: Crossbreed. And it is very huge bull. They raise it only for slaughtering, for getting a large quantity of meat. One bull, one buffalo, weighs hundreds and hundreds of pounds. And they sell it for half million dollars for one, so that they can breed it with others and make many. In the airports, when we are distributing books, we meet many farmers who have slaughter ranches. Whenever they say "farmer," usually it's for slaughtering. [break]

Jayadvaita: ...in Wisconsin we saw that there are many dairy cows. They are raising them especially for milk. It's called America's dairyland. And they have many, many big dairy cows. And they are getting so much milk. We were preaching that "If you take up Krsna consciousness, then you'll have the richest state, because you have so many cows, and we are preaching that people should drink milk and chant Hare Krsna. So your state will be the richest."

Prabhupada: No. We can.... From milk, we can make so many nice foods. You take ghee, and from ghee, from grains, from fruits, you make so many varieties. Just like dahl, pulses, soak it in the water and then fry in the ghee and put masala, and it is so nice salty preparation, dahl mutta. Then make samosa. You introduce these things, dahl mut(?), samosa, jalebis, they will like. They have never tasted all these. Sandesa, rasagulla, pantoa,(?) so many varieties from milk, only milk.

Madhavananda: In the restaurant in New York, many, many respectable people come, and they come once and they come back again and again and again.

Prabhupada: Panwanna(?), puspanna, kijeranna(?), so many things. What is that? If you kill the cow you get the meat only one time. But if you allow the cow to live and take milk, and from milk you can make hundreds and thousands of preparations. That is enjoyment, real enjoyment. In Delhi, there are shops, very respectable shops. One side salt, and one side sweet. But the salt side or sweet side, they're all based on ghee. This preparation, dahibara, so nice. Combination of grain and yogurt. So introduce this. They do not know. It is a new type of civilization we are trying to introduce for the benefit of the human society. They do not know it. Crude civilization. Primitive. Kill an animal and eat. And when you are civilized, you are supposed to know so many things; why should you kill the animal? You utilize the animal. This milk is taking the blood without killing. That is humanity. You are eating beef because of the blood. So if you take the blood in a different way, you get the same benefit. And if you are still ambitious to eat the meat, flesh, just wait, it will die, you take at that time. Why so hurry? Everyone will die, there is no doubt about it. So you take the dead body and eat. Why do they not?

Hari-sauri: They said there's something wrong with it. When it dies, it has so many diseases and things.

Prabhupada: This is rascaldom. They are eating so many dead animals.

Hari-sauri: But they say if they kill it in a healthy condition then the meat they eat is good.

Prabhupada: No, no, just like lobsters, they are very fond of lobster. Lobster is never bought living. It is dead and rotten, decomposed, and they eat. They cannot say that by killing we get fresh. You are eating so many rotten things, decomposed. Actually, I have seen. It has become like puss, and still they are eating.

Hari-sauri: In England they had a system, the gentry, when it was pheasant shooting season, they used to kill the pheasants and they would hang them up in the outhouses. And then, after a few days, it would begin to rot. And when they were able to pull the skin off just in one piece, when it was just hanging off, they could just pull it off, then it was good for eating. That's when they would eat the flesh.

Prabhupada: Just see. And another, they are digging the pig? You said?

Hari-sauri: Oh, Sukadeva was saying in Hawaii. They bury the pig, and when it becomes completely rotten they dig it up and eat it.

Prabhupada: So similarly, when the cow is dead, you dig, or put it within the.... Or take it. No, nobody will object. In India, that is the system. When the cow is dead, there is a class, they are called cobblers, camar(?). They are informed and they'll come. They'll take it. And they'll eat the flesh and take the skin, and tan it in their own method, and then prepare shoes. They sell it in the market. So without any price, they get the skin, they eat the flesh. So nobody is harmed. But there is a class.... [break] ...they are not going to starve. From economic point of view, it is very good. So why you are killing and maintaining so big, big slaughterhouse? Let everyone maintain the cows for taking milk. And when it dies, you take it, you meat-eaters. Make that arrangement.

Raksana: They spend so much money on force-feeding the cows (indistinct)

Madhavananda: It's actually been proven that the animal's flesh becomes poison. Because of the fear of the animal, he releases adrenalin in his bloodstream, and this adrenalin makes the meat poisonous to the human system, proven scientifically.

Hari-sauri: Causing cancer.

Madhavananda: And that is one of the causes of cancer.

Prabhupada: I think we published some article.

Jayadvaita: Yes, in Back to Godhead, we gave these arguments.

Madhavananda: Mukunda did research.

Prabhupada: He wrote it nice.

Madhavananda: Yes, cancer is the largest killing disease now. [break]

Makhanlal: (laughter) These are some pictures of our farm project, St. Louis farm project.

Prabhupada: Yes, increase farm projects. It is very nice project. Self-dependent. Very good. Krsna personally, He lived in village, farm, cows, calves, land, Govardhana Hill. It is very nice. Land, in America, you have got so much land. Produce vegetable, grains, milk, eat sumptuously, no economic question. Prepare very nice product. And make some money by sending ghee in the city. Srutakirti will take charge. (laughter) There is sea also? No.

Makhanlal: There's a small creek in one...

Prabhupada: Not ocean.

Makhanlal: Not ocean, no.

Hari-sauri: That's just the hills in the background.

Prabhupada: I think this farm organization will not be liked by the government.

Hari-sauri: Because of the self-sufficiency? Once they know that we can live independently, they won't like it.

Madhavananda: They don't like it already. They are attacking in New Vrindaban, publicity saying that this is just a hippie farm and this and that. They don't like.... It is the state. They see that we are living independently of the entire society. They don't like that. They want everyone to be following their way of society.

Prabhupada: Why not our way of? If you want to enforce your way of life, why not I enforce my way of life? Then where is my independence? You cannot enforce your way of life. This is standard life.

Devotee: The neighbors around the farm, they like us.

Hari-sauri: Kirtanananda Maharaja was saying that we're very popular with the neighbors there.

Prabhupada: That is good sign.

Devotee: One farmer called his tractor the Hare Rama tractor.

Prabhupada: (laughs) They are getting daily fresh vegetable, fresh milk. It is very palatable.

Madhavananda: We wanted to have a cow here, but they won't allow one within the city limits.

Prabhupada: That is the difficulty. The government is raksasa. So you have to take charge of the government. First of all make propaganda, the majority of population may (be) in favor of you. Then you'll get vote. This is the easiest process. If majority people likes, that "These Krsna conscious men are very nice," then you make a candidate—"Vote for Krsna conscious person, such and such." They'll vote. In this way, you'll capture the Senate, then government, then President's office. It is very.... At least, there must be majority of the people sympathizers of this movement. Then it will be successful. So you do everything exemplified, and people will vote. But it is difficult in this way, that "These people are prohibiting intoxication and gambling. How we can live without this?" That is the difficulty. They cannot imagine even that without these things one can live. Is it not?

Hari-sauri: It's a fact. If you stop them doing that, they'll have no activity, just working.

Raksana: We should expand our New Bhakta program so that they can have weekend stays in asramas, have practical experience.

Prabhupada: That they are coming.

Madhavananda: [break] ...of birds.

Prabhupada: Yes. As soon as there are trees, there will be birds.

Hari-sauri: I saw a squirrel down there earlier on as well. Squirrels, there was one just down there earlier on.

Prabhupada: Ideal. Let there be an ideal section, our people, our men. And do your personal advancement. But that much.... If people come, it's all right. Otherwise, we must make our own life successful.

Madhavananda: Once you wrote Gargamuni Swami in Nepal that even if they will not listen, simply by your being there, even if they see you chant japa sitting on a street corner, they will become Krsna conscious.

Jayadvaita: We got a phone call today from someone in Kalamazoo-it's many hours away. And he met some devotee in a store who was there for purchasing something, and just by talking for a few minutes he decided that he wanted to come here and see you in Detroit. So he was calling on the phone, when would you be here.

Prabhupada: Yes. (pause) If we get this land we can cultivate some grains, foodstuff. On account of this water facility you can grow so many things, vegetables, fruits, foodgrains, very nice. Keep cows. [break] Industrial civilization will fail. They are manufacturing simply cars. The time is approaching very swiftly when there will be no more demand for cars.

Madhavananda: Already it's failing. They are making so many cars now, and people aren't purchasing. In the newspaper, you see big pictures of huge miles of lots of unsold cars. The whole motorcar business, industry, is going down.

Dhrsṭadyumna: They have another trick. Now they make them very cheap so the cars will break down every year.

Prabhupada: But if I don't want it, either cheap or dear, who cares for it? If I don't want that. There was a statement by some Pope that "If the crown of England is offered to me at very cheap price, so why shall I accept it? What shall I do with it?" That is the..., that if I don't want a car.... Suppose if we advance our farming program, who will want the car? Theoretically, accept it, that we shall remain in the farm. Then where is the necessity of car?

Madhavananda: Therefore the government will not like.

Prabhupada: Yes. The government does not like it now because we are not going to eat meat, we are not accepting liquor, no gambling, no prostitution. So the government is already concerned. Theoretically, suppose these things are stopped, then where is the human civilization? Everything is finished. Because they have no other alternative. We have got—Krsna consciousness—but they haven't got.

Madhavananda: They become bored very easily. If they do not have all the different material amusements, they become very bored and depressed.

Prabhupada: And we have got everything. We have got feasting, dancing, chanting, philosophy, clean and spotless life.

Hari-sauri: Friendship, everything.

Prabhupada: Yes. No animal killing. We are not envious of anyone.

Madhavananda: People come to the temple, and they say that it is like paradise here because there is no anxiety. Everyone is so happy and peaceful.

Prabhupada: So keep this standard. At least, people will be attracted; they will appreciate it. Don't minimize this temple; keep it nicely.

Devotee: A boy said today it was like heaven on earth.

Prabhupada: Accha? That's nice.

Jayadvaita: The only place I found some difficulty is that sometimes if there is some discrepancy in behavior of our students, some petty stealing or something like that, then that is...

Prabhupada: That you have to train our men so that they may be well behaved.

Jayadvaita: In Laguna Beach we had so many complaints, that they were trying to stop the temple. And their main complaint was that the devotees were taking flowers from people's gardens and without any permission, without any, simply taking. And just on that account they wanted to stop us. Some petty stealing, fifty dollars worth of flowers.

Prabhupada: So why our devotees should take flowers from them? Stop it.

Jayadvaita: Yes, I stopped it. Instead I sent a letter to the neighbors that no one is taking flowers and we are planting a big garden. Now they've done that, and the neighbors come and they appreciate that such a nice garden is there, they remark.

Prabhupada: You can make them friends, that "Your flowers in the garden will dry and fall down, so while it is fresh, if it is offered to God, and you'll get benefit out of it, why you object?" Yes. That's a fact.

Jayadvaita: They'll do that, too.

Prabhupada: Yes, so convince them. They will be not enemy.

Hari-sauri: We used to tell them that in Melbourne, but they said "Leave them alone 'cause we want to enjoy them." They said that they're in their gardens for their own enjoyment.

Prabhupada: They have no idea that why the flowers are taken. It is not for our enjoyment, for your enjoyment. When your flowers will be accepted by Krsna, you'll be happy.

Jayadvaita: It's a little difficult to explain afterwards. Instead of explaining before, that "Can we take," they would take and then explain.

Prabhupada: Yes, that you have to manage. That is preaching. What you'll do? I have seen that garden. There are lemons, apples; they are rotting and falling down. So while they can be used for Krsna's purpose, why don't you give it? [break] ...too hot. At night, of course, it is not hot. They lie down in open place like this on a cot. Very pleasing sleeping.

Madhavananda: This is their favorite place.

Prabhupada: All, they are living in the same tree?

Madhavananda: Yes. Seven of them.

Palika: These peacocks are very friendly here. They stay together. They lay here altogether in the sun.

Prabhupada: Birds of the same feather flock together. (laughter)

Jayadvaita: By Ann Arbor temple there is one squirrel who comes to take prasada from the devotees. He comes right up to them and takes some laḍḍu or something like that. Very fat squirrel.

Prabhupada: He knows that they'll not harm.

Jayadvaita: Yes.

Madhavananda: The neighbors say that every morning the peacocks wake them up.

Passerby on a boat: Ahoy there!

Dhrsṭadyumna: Hare Krsna!

Madhavananda: What does ahoy mean?

Prabhupada: What they say?

Madhavananda: Ahoy.

Hari-sauri: It's a nautical form of greeting used by sailors.

Madhavananda: It's a greeting.

Prabhupada: They'll come gradually. In that way, it is a very important place. There are so many people passing.

Madhavananda: Today I was speaking to our lawyer on the phone, and I said we are very busy now, we're having a program here, our spiritual master is here. He said, "Yes, I heard. Some of my friends were driving past in a boat, and they saw three hundred devotees." So many respectable people come this way.

Prabhupada: Oh, yes. They are greeting, that means they are respectable gentlemen. So make friendship with them.

Madhavananda: Yes, we can have a place here where they can stop and we can serve prasada.

Prabhupada: No, that is our gateway?

Madhavananda: Place there. Serve prasada and preach.

Prabhupada: Yes, you invite them: "Come in, take prasada." So out of inquisitiveness, they may come, and give them prasada, show them temple. In this way.... Show them our books. Simply put there signboard, "Please come in and take prasada." [break] ...and read our books, like that. The bird took a fish in that way?

Madhavananda: Yes.

Prabhupada: And fell and flew away. How quickly they can take. Everyone knows his business. That intelligence there everywhere. Ahara nidra bhayam maithuni, for these things, how to eat, how to sleep, how to enjoy sex and how to defend, everyone knows. You do not require to educate them. Only they cannot take to Krsna consciousness. That is only possible by the human beings. Otherwise, other necessities of bodily, everyone knows. Tasyaiva hetoḥ; prayateta kovidaḥ;. Every morning, this place should be washed with water. Then it will be very nice. Then we can sit down and chant all day and night, Hare Krsna. What is the wrong there? Kirtaniyaḥ; sada hariḥ; [Cc. Adi 17.31]. Haridasa Thakura was doing that. But don't imitate. But I mean to say, if you do that, where is the problem? [break] ...I think you can acquire some land through the government for agriculture and cow protection. There are so many, so much vacant land. I think they will accept community proposal. Sometimes invite some important government officials; let them see what you are doing.

Hari-sauri: Hmm. Like that congressman the other day.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Hari-sauri: He was very impressed.

Prabhupada: Very much impressed. He's friendly, you can invite him again. He can introduce a law; he's a law officer. [break] ...charges. They may not think they will charge. And some pictures from our books. Signboard, book and pictures. There are some painters here? No painters? Well, there are so many painters. You can bring from Los Angeles.

Madhavananda: Yes, I was thinking.

Raksana: Radhavallabha can set up like Mayapura. They're all waterproofed and everything else there.

Prabhupada: Give them one big room.

Madhavananda: I was thinking to ask Bharadvaja to come, because he...

Prabhupada: He's busy there, but somebody may go there and learn from Bharadvaja how to make dolls and prepare it here. One room. There are so many big, big rooms.

Madhavananda: Yes, I was thinking.

Prabhupada: Make diorama. People will come to see.

Madhavananda: They like those things very much.

Prabhupada: Instead of so-called library, reception, you make doll room. These big, big rooms. All big glass case...

Madhavananda: Yes. They would like that very much.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Madhavananda: Because already this is like a historic museum.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Madhavananda: It's so beautiful.

Prabhupada: Yes. So in big glass case.... One girl saw me in Los Angeles. No? Hawaii.

Hari-sauri: Candranibha?

Prabhupada: So she's not getting facility in Hawaii. She can come here with two, three assistants. There is so much place here. So correspond with...

Madhavananda: Hawaii.

Prabhupada: Yes. Or ask our Govinda dasi. Write one letter to Govinda dasi, I'll sign, that "You can come with your assistants. Here is a very good scope for doll making and exhibit. And the place is very nice. You'll like." So many other girls they can also learn. Doll making is very easy. It is not difficult.

Madhavananda: We have good facility here for it.

Prabhupada: Oh, yes. The clay is soft here?

Madhavananda: Well, usually they purchase clay, don't they? Bharadvaja's? Usually they purchase art clay in America.

Prabhupada: Oh. Fuller's earth. That is wanted, Fuller's earth.

Madhavananda: Actually the previous owner of this house, he wanted to make this a restaurant, a very posh restaurant on the waterfront, and he applied for many, many months to get permission from the city. And finally he got it. So actually we have restaurant status here. It would be very easy for us to start a restaurant. People would come.... When people see the house, they are so amazed.

Hari-sauri: That would be a big attraction—a waterside restaurant.

Prabhupada: Hmm, yes.

Madhavananda: We could have tables and chairs on the grounds.

Prabhupada: No, we are not going to do that. Better make it a doll exhibition. And give them prasada free. Restaurant in the city, that is all right. Not here. Nobody will come to the restaurant from the city. That is not possible. But we give them free prasada. (japa) [break]

Makhanlal: ...Prabhupada, you mentioned that soon there will not be so much use for automobiles. What will be our means of spreading the sankirtana movement?

Prabhupada: We shall walk. You'll have good exercise. (laughter)

Makhanlal: By oxcart also?

Prabhupada: If possible; if not, walk. What is that?

Hari-sauri: Maybe we can develop some mystic opulence and walk on the water.

Prabhupada: Here, in this world, everything has got six changes. Birth, then stay, and then develop, then by-products, then dwindle, then finish. Everything. So the motorcar civilization, it was born. And now the time has come it is dwindling, and it will be finished. Just like railway; railway no more interested, anybody. But when it was invented, it was very important. Now it is useless. That is the nature of everything here in this material world. It cannot be permanent benefit. That they do not know. They become very enthusiastic when some new thing is born. Child is born, I am very happy. The same child, when he's dead, I am unhappy. But one must know: what is born, it will die. So everything material has got a period of development, then it dwindles, and then finishes. So from this nature's law, we can see this motorcar attraction, utility, it will finish. It will not stay.

Madhavananda: Now everyone wants to travel by air. In some large cities, the airports are so crowded, there is so much traffic overhead, that now they have to develop means of...

Prabhupada: All accident takes place while coming down. Or while going up. On the sky there is no danger.

Devotee: They call it traffic control system in the sky. Just like there is traffic on the road, they call it the traffic control system. They have so much traffic in the air.

Prabhupada: What they control?

Hari-sauri: They keep them flying around the airport until there's room for them to come in.

Prabhupada: That already they are doing. When there is no space, they send news, that "Don't come down." So they come like this.

Devotee: They have been known to hit in the air.

Madhavananda: Maya-sukhaya.

Prabhupada: So the airport is also becoming a problem.

Hari-sauri: Everything's a problem without Krsna.

Dhrsṭadyumna: When we are traveling on the road we see so much land not used. And we think "Why not take everyone out of the factories, let them plant fruit and flower trees along the roads all over the country and build beautiful ponds. So everyone can bathe when they walk, for refreshment." Just like in Caitanya-caritamrta. I think Nrsimha Brahmacari, he was building a road for Lord Caitanya, very nicely.

Prabhupada: No, they will create slaughterhouse, brothel, then liquor shop, gambling house. That's all.

Madhavananda: This is our biggest book distributor of the men-Pañca-tattva dasa. One day in the airport he distributed three hundred Srimad-Bhagavatams in one day. That is the record.

Prabhupada: Hardbound Srimad-Bhagavatam?

Pañca-tattva: Yes.

Prabhupada: How did you sell so many? Unless you have got supernatural power.

Madhavananda: Krsna empowered him.

Prabhupada: Actually, it is not.... It is uncommon.

Madhavananda: Many amazing things happen when we are distributing books. People come up to us, and they say, "No, I will not take your book. I will tell you now that I will not take your book. If you want me to read your book, then I will read it, but I will not give you any money." And we say, "All right, please read it, please read the book and tell us what you think." And they say "All right." And we say "Oh, please give a donation." And they say, "No, I cannot give a donation." And we say, "All right, but please read the book." He says: "All right." "Oh, and give a donation." And they say, "All right, I'll give a donation." (laughter)

Prabhupada: And you give the book?

Madhavananda: Yes. It is like magic. Krsna is trying to help them also.

Dhrsṭadyumna: One big lawyer, he is fighting us for not going to the airports. He is working for the airlines. So he was going on a pleasure trip to Las Vegas from New York. So his friend gave him five dollars and said, "When you come to a good charity, give this—it will give you good luck." So he took the five dollars, got on the plane, went to Las Vegas, gets off the plane, goes into the terminal, and a young man comes up to him, says, "We are doing very good work. Please give a donation." He said, "Oh, my friend has given me five dollars, so here is a good cause." Gives the five dollars to the boy, he said: "Oh, here, take this book also." So he, "All right." He goes and sits in the car, opens the book, he said, "Oh, no! It is the Hare Krsnas! I have been tricked." This story was told by Tamala Krsna Maharaja's parents. Their friend was the lawyer. So Krsna is benedicting everyone, even the enemies. [break]

Madhavananda: Sometimes the karmi salesmen, they stand around to watch us distribute books. Because they are so amazed at our techniques of sale and distribution, they want to learn.

Jayadvaita: They become very respectful. They don't know anything about our philosophy, but they see how nicely we...

Prabhupada: Good salesmen.

Madhavananda: Yes. And sometimes they even offer jobs to the devotee, that "You come and work for me. You will be salesman for my..."

Prabhupada: "And what nonsense book you have got? (laughter) We are going to stop your sales." Tell them. "And we are going to stop your sales. Instead of helping you for selling your books, we are going to stop all these nonsense books. That is our mission." Tad vayasam tirtham. That is explained in the Srimad-Bhagavatam. Na yad vacas citra-padam harer yaso jagat-pavitram pragrnita karhicit, tad vayasam tirtham usanti manasaḥ; [SB 1.5.10]. That verse, that however nicely it is written with..., what is called, metaphor, poetic ornaments and very good language, grammatical set-up, and so on, so on. So that, although it is very nicely written from literary point of view, but because it does not contain any glorification of Krsna, it is just like the spot where the crows take pleasure. Crows. The crows means they go the nasty place where all nasty things are thrown. They take pleasure there. So all these other literatures, they are meant for the crows. And this literature is meant for the swan, paramahamsa, white swans. So it is not the bodily color. It means those who are advanced in their development of life, consciousness, it is meant for them. It is not for the crows, who are still eating all nasty things in the garbage. Crows, they do that. They take pleasure where there are garbage, all nasty things and.... And the big swans, they will like water like this, garden like this. That is.... Even in the lower animals, there is difference between the crow's society and swan's society. (police car sounds) What is this?

Madhavananda: Police car.

Prabhupada: Oh? Police cars very often visit this quarter?

Madhavananda: No.

Hari-sauri: Srila Prabhupada? It's nine o'clock.

Prabhupada: It may be ten o'clock. (laughter) What is the difference when here and there? (Prabhupada laughs) Just like a blind man, he's sleeping, now his son is getting, "Please rise, it is now morning." So he said, "For me, morning and evening is the same thing. I am blind." Keba ratra keba din. "For me, there is no difference between day and night, because I cannot see anything."

Raksana: Because you see only Krsna all the time, Srila Prabhupada, it doesn't matter whether you're in the room or in the garden.

Prabhupada: So you want to see something other than, better than Krsna? So arati time is now? No. If you have to go, you can go.

Hari-sauri: No. The main arati is finished at seven o'clock. (end)