Prabhupada: ...so glorious. Glorious. He's glorious. That's all right. But kanisṭha-adhikari will imitate his behavior, but he is not fixed up. Therefore it is not good for him. He is forbidden. This is...

Gopala Krsna: He's forbidden to hear from a nondevotee.

Prabhupada: Yes. They will commit so many mistakes and they'll take it for granted. Just like this "Nitai-Gaura, Radhe-Syama." That is avoided for kanisṭha-adhikari. There are so many mistakes, rasabhasa. So two things are there always, two sides. One for the maha-bhagavata, one for the ordinary kanisṭha-adhikari, madhyama-adhikari. So in the temple it is to be supposed generally for the madhyama-adhikari and kanisṭha-adhikari especially. So in the temple we should not...

Hari-sauri: We should just listen to whatever the acaryas have...

Prabhupada: Yes.

Hari-sauri: I remember once before, a few years ago, you sent a letter out saying that no one should try to compose songs or...

Prabhupada: Yes. I do not encourage. What they will compose? They have no realization. But they're speaking something about Krsna. That's his beginning. Just like a child, he speaks half-broken. That is not language. It has no meaning. But still the child, "Ah, ah, you are so nice. You are so nice." Because he's trying to speak something. "Papa, mama." And mama is... Not that his words are complete.

Hari-sauri: When we go out and preach and we just repeat or try to repeat whatever we've heard from the spiritual master, but we may not have fully realized what we're speaking about, does that somehow or another reduce the potency of the Gita or the Bhagavatam or...

Prabhupada: Yes, realization takes time. Therefore there is no question of realization. Caitanya Mahaprabhu says you simply repeat as Krsna says. That will save you. The so-called political leaders, they have no realization, but they manufacture their ideas. That is dangerous. Mislead themselves and others. In Bhagavad-gita it is clearly said, acaryopasanam. Amanitvam adambhitvam. This is the process of knowledge. These so-called scholars and politicians, they have no acarya. Instead of being amanitvam, they're mani... "I have become a leader, so whatever I shall say, it will be accepted." This is going on. Very bad. It is clearly said, as soon as you give up the acarya system it is rotten. Sa kaleneha yogo nasṭaḥ; parantapa. So things which is rotten, what you'll get benefit? That is going on. Therefore in spite of so many Gita commentators, big, big leaders, scholars, not a single person is converted into a devotee. Not a single person amongst their followers. It's useless talking. Therefore it is forbidden. Avaisnava-mukhodgirnam putam... Because they are not Vaisnava, politicians and—reject them immediately. Immediately. That is the injunction. I wrote Mahatma Gandhi that "You are so respectful. People have got... Now you have got your svaraja. Please take Bhagavad-gita seriously and let us preach."

Dr. Patel: Raj Gopalacharya in his commentary, he has mentioned that Bhagavad-gita should be learned through the acaryas.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Dr. Patel: As Gopalacharya has commented. He was a Vaisnava.

Prabhupada: Raj Gopalacharya was sensible man amongst the whole lot.

Dr. Patel: He was a Vaisnava cult.

Prabhupada: Yes, I know. Cakravarty. So (indistinct), I say that amongst the whole lot he was a sane man. Raj Gopalacharya. Because by culture he's a Vaisnava. [break]

Prabhupada: ...agreement with Jawaharlal Nehru.

Dr. Patel: He never was in agreement.

Prabhupada: Not a single item. He therefore resigned. He wanted to form his own party.

Hari-sauri: Who's that, Srila Prabhupada?

Prabhupada: Raj Gopalacharya.

Dr. Patel: If they had followed Raj Gopalacharya this country would have been far better in knowledge. Raj Gopalacharya. That is because he was param bhakta, to tell the truth, always.

Prabhupada: Yasyasti bhaktir bhagavaty akiñcana sarvair gunais tatra samasate [SB 5.18.12]. Therefore he was qualified. Anyway, if you are interested in Bhagavad-gita, how you can misinterpret? How you can put your own words to mislead people? How much misleading this is.

Hari-sauri: Actually they're not interested in the Bhagavad-gita.

Prabhupada: I knew all these things but what I am? I have no position.

Dr. Patel: But what you have commented is correct. And the Bhagavad-gita, real thing is man-mana bhava mad-bhakto mad-yaji mam namaskuru [Bg. 18.65]. Instead they directed their attention to karma and this and that. It was and similar thing...

Prabhupada: But because they did not learn subject matter from acarya. Yes. Acarya, one has to learn from the acarya.

Dr. Patel: Acarya is one who acara, himself practices.

Prabhupada: Yes. No. One who knows and practices. Acinoti sastra. One who knows the real purpose. And there is no difficulty of understanding the real purpose. It is clearly said, everything. The process of knowledge is given, amanitvam adambhitvam ahimsa ksantir arjavam [Bg. 13.8]. Where is that? In the beginning, "Oh, I am such a big leader, politician. Whatever I say is nice." Dambha. Dambha. Because he's thinking puffed-up falsely. Some rascal fools give them clap. (Prabhupada claps) They think, "Oh, I have become very great."

Dr. Patel: Nowadays sir, they collect people to clap them.

Prabhupada: Yes. No. They make such a speech and practice. One political leader, he is young man, he was saying in Hyderabad... He was ambassador in... That Rao?

Hari-sauri: Yes, Motilal Rao.

Prabhupada: So he did not know. He said that "When I was going to be ambassador, Dr. Radhakrishnan, he told me that, "You first of all write a speech and practice it and deliver it very nicely. Then they will applaud." This is Dr. Radhakrishnan. They want simply applause. That's all. Because they know, "If the public applauds, then I keep my position. I am... Whatever nonsense I speak or whatever nonsense I... it doesn't matter."

Gopala Krsna: Public support.

Prabhupada: Bas. That is their only business.

Hari-sauri: Some of them, they don't even write their own speeches. They have a professional script writer.

Prabhupada: Yes. Professional writer and some speaker.

Dr. Patel: All of them. (indistinct)

Gopala Krsna: Even the President of the United States has a speech writer.

Prabhupada: ...learned scholar, English licensed. We know that Madanmohan Malhotra. In those days Surendranath Bannerji was a great orator. You have heard his name? Surendranath Bannerji. He is the practically father of Indian nationalism. So he was I.C.S., and in those days English scholar, His father was big doctor. Dr. Dugdhachandra Bannerji. So his speech, this Madanmohan Malhotra used to rote, cram, and before a mirror he would speak like this. "Oh..." In this way he became a politician. He was smarta-brahmana and he became a politician. Simply by imitating Surendranath Bannerji's speech.

Dr. Patel: Even those who are with Baroda Maharaj and all Maharaj's speeches were written by (indistinct) so one can (indistinct) These are your ideas Maharaj, "Well, everyone knows that I am writing it. It doesn't matter. I won't correct it." All the speeches given by Maharaj of Baroda was written by (indistinct). All, all, practically all. Here's a reference there. And he was a great scholar after all.

Prabhupada: Oh yes. He was English born. His father was medical man. Dr. Madanmohan Bannerji.

Dr. Patel: They say he did not know even Bengali properly.

Prabhupada: Yes. How he can? He was born in England. Educated in England. He was English-born.

Dr. Patel: Then he became a master in Sanskrit. That is a great, I mean intelligent...

Prabhupada: That may be. He was a scholar. They were big scholars. He was professor in Baroda University.

Dr. Patel: Professor of French and Philosophy.

Prabhupada: There is one hall, Aurobindo Hall, in Baroda.

Dr. Patel: All followers of Aurobindo are Bengalis and Gujaratis.

Prabhupada: Hm. No, there are others in foreign countries. He was scholar.

Dr. Patel: In the asramas Bengalis, and Gujaratis will go fifty-fifty. There are some South Indians also there. You are from India? He had a very big following of Gujaratis.

Prabhupada: Because he was first in Gujarat.

Dr. Patel: Baroda Maharaj, when he, when he did not appear in horse riding test, (indistinct) but he did not want to start the qualification (indistinct) So he came. So Baroda (indistinct) Maharaj knew he has came. Baroda Maharaj was in England then. He called him (indistinct). The same thing as the Britishers did at Baroda. That is, Baroda Maharaj was appreciated.

Prabhupada: No, he was a person to be appreciated. There is no doubt. He had so many qualifications. But he was also doing yoga practice. When he was put into... No, after getting released from jail, twelve years. He was to be hanged.

Dr. Patel: C.R. Das.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Dr. Patel: It was said that the man who was judge, was his classmate in Cambridge, Oxford, or something like that.

Prabhupada: Maybe.

Dr. Patel: C.R. Das made a very good speech. I have read all about what he practicing yoga in jail when he was himself written when he came to the minister's court. He felt that everywhere was Krsna. Everyone was... He was seeing Krsna everywhere. That was his feeling. So he would not be punished by anybody. But God is everywhere. His brother was transported to the... He was to be hanged and then he was transported to (indistinct).

Prabhupada: (indistinct). [break] This is the fact that yato mata tato patha? Whatever path you accept, that is all right? He said that. Do you think it is bona fide? Krsna says mam ekam, and he approves anything.

Dr. Patel: He was a partial political leader also.

Prabhupada: That's all. He's a political leader.

Dr. Patel: But then he had a great burning desire to see that India be free of British purpose. He was a real nationalist...

Prabhupada: That even cats and dogs, they also want that my cats be well fed and strong. That is not a very good position. And Bhagavad-gita says aratiḥ; putra-dara-grhadisu. This is philosophy. And if one is attached to his homely happiness he's not even a man of knowledge.

Dr. Patel: (indistinct)

Prabhupada: When Vivekananda came back from foreign tours, he brought three women and one woman was intimately connected with him.

Dr. Patel: (indistinct)

Prabhupada: You, you have seen yourself. Why there was no men in America? He came back...

Dr. Patel: I think he was a brahmacari throughout.

Prabhupada: You do not know. There is an old man... Some old woman, he said about he's connected.

Dr. Patel: Subash Candra Bose (indistinct).

Prabhupada: Marriage is good. But to keep illicit sex, that's the most sinful activity. Marriage is allowed. Dharmaviruddhaḥ; kamo 'smi. That is not against.

Dr. Patel: Great number of luminaries have been produced by Bengal. Last year we read in Times of India more luminaries were produced in Bengal than any other...

Prabhupada: No, Bengal... They maintained the culture. But therefore I say that Vivekananda broke that Bengali culture.

Dr. Patel: Bengali culture is fish-eating. Even brahmanas eating.

Prabhupada: No. They are eating fish only. Because Bengal is full of rivers. But not for all. Mass of people, that's a fact. But he introduced, "You can eat anything. It has nothing to do with religion." In Bengal in our childhood we have seen if anyone was habituated to take meat... Common man would not. Rich man. The rich men they have their sahis. Sahis you know, who takes care of the horse. So he would cook in the horse shed.

Dr. Patel: And eat there.

Prabhupada: No. Then he'll bring the (indistinct) and eat it. It was never brought within the precincts of the house.

Dr. Patel: (indistinct) Gujarat and Maharastra (indistinct).

Prabhupada: No, no... These people who were eating meat, they knew that "I am doing wrong." But Vivekananda approved, "No, it is not wrong. It is wrong. Whatever you like you can do." Then they began to eat meat. Fish they were already eating. Meat and chicken and eggs and everything.

Dr. Patel: All the sons of Vallabhacarya's followers are eating.

Prabhupada: No, everyone is eating. I know that. Therefore our first regulation is you must give it up. Then we talk of Krsna consciousness.

Dr. Patel: My son He does not even tomatoes, saying that if you red color.

Prabhupada: Tomato was not taken.

Dr. Patel: No, no. That is what he says. I won't eat. He does not eat because his mother was 100% vegetarian and we would not allow even...

Prabhupada: In our childhood no one would eat the tomato. It is not... It is red color, but everything vilati. It is called vilati begun. So no one would touch.

Hari-sauri: Tomato?

Prabhupada: There was prejudice because it was brought from... Even potato. Strict Hindus would not take potato. Potato was imported from England. It was not produced... Just like Tulasi. Tulasi plant we have imported, exported. Similarly, so many things...

Dr. Patel: They have not allowed tulasi to be grown in America.

Prabhupada: Oh no? Who said?

Dr. Patel: Mr. Shaheb, (indistinct) tulasi plant for his daughter.

Prabhupada: No, we have got so many tulasi plants.

Hari-sauri: Every one of our centers has so many tulasis.

Prabhupada: Every temple we have got big, big tulasi. Especially Hawaii we have got six feet high tulasi.

Dr. Patel: I have (indistinct). They won't allow plant.

Prabhupada: No, no. That is agriculture. You cannot take any plant. Not only tulasi. Any plant from India.

Dr. Patel: You may take away the diseases.

Prabhupada: Whatever it may be. Not only tulasi plant, any plant you cannot take. You cannot take any vegetables. There is agricultural restriction.

Dr. Patel: But I think tulasi can be grown in all the countries. Even in cold.

Prabhupada: Little cold countries with little care.

Dr. Patel: England?

Prabhupada: Oh yes. We have got tulasi.

Dr. Patel: You may have to keep it in hothouse during winter.

Prabhupada: Yes. We make that arrangement. And what Vivekananda said, that it is better to water eggplant tree. Why tulasi plant? What you will get? Eggplant tree means you'll get some eggplant, begun. (Hindi) This is his culture. Make your body strong and stout by eating meat, and there is nothing to do with the...

Dr. Patel: The result will be the same as Gandhi's (indistinct). This slaughterhouse, so abominable and so horrible. When I first came to Bombay from my village and I had to pass through that railway, that nasty butcher house. It was so horrible smelling and those vultures sitting on the... I became spite of myself. When I came in Bombay. I had to join the grammatical college here.

Prabhupada: You were... Two thousand years ago, Christ, he was born in Jewish family, he was horrified by seeing animal sacrifices in the synagogue. Therefore his first commandment is, "Thou shall not kill." He was so horrified. Why he has given this commandment? He was so much horrified. What is this? Therefore he gave up the Jewish religion. He started his own. This is the history. And he first commanded, "Thou shall not kill."

Dr. Patel: And the Jews were killing the pigeons in the temple.

Prabhupada: They are very expert in killing.

Dr. Patel: I don't know how the religiosity could even...

Prabhupada: So where is religion?

Dr. Patel: They have misinterpreted religion.

Prabhupada: Therefore Bhagavata has criticized all so-called religion.

Dr. Patel: One patient of mine Sardar Patel, he's a old (indistinct) from Hindus and Muslim. And (indistinct) killing of their...

Prabhupada: Muslims are also restricted... [break] ...for some purpose. Therefore they are called karmis. Actually, it is for satisfying Visnu. Without Visnu's satisfaction nothing can be done. So those who are desiring some material grants, they used to perform this ritualistic ceremonies. It is not for the devotee.

Dr. Patel: For devotee, Krsna has said, "I am yajña, and I am also hutam, and I am also performer of yajña."

Prabhupada: Yes. Because he gives the intelligence. Mattaḥ; smrtir jñanam apohanam ca [Bg. 15.15]. Unless He gives smrti, he cannot chant the mantra. "Therefore actually I am performer."

Dr. Patel: Aham kratur aham yajñaḥ;...

Prabhupada: Therefore He says "I am performer. If I give him instruction, he does something, so he is not doing. I am doing. I say, 'Do like this,' and he does like that, then he's not performer, I am performer." So whatever mantra they are chanting, if Krsna does not give him intelligence, he cannot do that. Sarvasya caham hrdi sannivisṭaḥ;. Mattaḥ; smrtir jñanam apohanam ca [Bg. 15.15]. Everyone, whatever we are doing, it is being supplied, the intelligence, the everything, but according to my desires. I cannot do anything independent. Just like we are constructing, practically, with the sanction of the municipality, the sanction of the government. Independently I cannot do. Similarly, we cannot anything without sanction of God. But that sanction is ye yatha mam prapadyante [Bg. 4.11]. I insist, "God give me this facility, give me this facility." "All right. You do it at your risk." But God says, that "You don't do this." Sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam [Bg. 18.66]. "What I say, you do. Then you'll be happy. What I dictate you do. But you are dictating Me. Because you are my son, what can I do? All right. Do it."

Dr. Patel: (laughs) "I grant you what ever you..."

Prabhupada: Yes. This is the position. Antavat tu phalam tesam tad bhavaty alpa-medhasam [Bg. 7.23]. "Because you are rascal, less intelligent you are doing this but this will not endure. You'll be a failure. Better what I say, you do. Then you'll be happy." This is the whole instruction. "You cannot do without My sanction. But you are insisting. What can I do? All right. Do it."

Dr. Patel: I grant you. And take the fruit and realize.

Prabhupada: Yes. Isvaraḥ; sarva-bhutanam hrd-dese 'rjuna tisṭhati [Bg. 18.61]. He's there. Bhramayan sarva-bhutani [Bg. 18.61]. If you have done then you must suffer or enjoy. That's all. That is your business. You get... Now you have created a karma. You have to enjoy it by accepting a certain type of body. Now you take it. I ask maya, "Give him this body. He wants to eat stool. All right. Give him the body of a hog." Yantraruḍhani mayaya. The yantra, the body is supplied by maya under the order. Mayadhyaksena prakrtiḥ; suyate [Bg. 9.10]. Everything is there. But these things they do not preach. They preach unnecessarily nonviolence. From Bhagavad-gita, which is being taught in the battlefield, and Gandhi wants to draw some meaning—nonviolence. Immediately it is, what is the value? Not only Gandhi. Everyone. If he can give a new interpretation... I think in Bombay, was there any Dr. Reilly? He wrote some Bhagavad-gita commentary as...

Dr. Patel: I think it's not that Reilly. Not that Reilly, Dr. Reilly, but there is another Reilly in Baroda who taught...

Prabhupada: Whatever it may be.

Dr. Patel: Who taught Sanskrit to...

Prabhupada: No, no. He has interpreted Bhagavad-gita, patient and physician.

Dr. Patel: Patient and physician. That may be this Reilly then. He was the dean of one of the medical colleges.

Prabhupada: Ah. So he has written that Krsna is the physician and Arjuna is the patient. And he has interpreted in that way. There are 645 like that, this, what is called, unauthoritative commentaries. Without touching the spirit of Bhagavad-gita.

Dr. Patel: Best commentary is the Bhagavad-gita itself. It needs no commentary. It is so simple to understand. Man-mana bhava mad-bhaktaḥ;.

Prabhupada: And commentary, interpretation required when you cannot understand. It is very easy and still these rogues will exploit and mislead people. This is... And perhaps, this is the first time I am pointing out. Before that nobody did.

Dr. Patel: And you wrote I have read your commentary twice and it has become very harsh on those people.

Prabhupada: I must be. They are doing wrong thing. They are doing great harm to the... They are misleading the... If I become little more powerful, I shall do it more harshly. I did not show because I was non-entity. But I knew it. Now people are taking me little seriously, I am talking. [break] In the beginning I thought, Who will hear me? Better wait for the time. Therefore I wrote Mahatma Gandhi, that "Now you have got your svaraja. Please come, let us preach Bhagavad-gita. You have..." If he would have given the chance at that time, then long ago this Krsna consciousness movement would have been started.

Indian man: He had only anasakti-yoga.

Prabhupada: He has expanded his asakti from family to the whole nation. Expanded asakti is not anasakti. I'm thinking only of my family, and if I think of the whole nation, that does not mean anasakti. That means asakti expanded. I am a pickpocket. If I become a great plunderer, that does not mean I am not a thief. You cannot say pickpocket is thief and a great plunderer is a hero. The quality is there.

Hari-sauri: There's that story about Alexander and the thief.

Prabhupada: Ah, Alexander and the thief. The thief convinced him, "Alexander, what is the difference between you and me? I'm a small thief, you are a big thief, that's all."

Dr. Patel: I will drive the car for today.

Prabhupada: All right. No, no, why you (indistinct). Young man... [break] ...the world... [break] (laughs) So similarly, if one is giving very important service, then even if there is some faulty thing, excuse. Service is so important. So in the Western country the woman can give very good service. Api cet sudaracaro bhajate mam ananya-bhak sadhur eva sa mantavyaḥ; [Bg. 9.30]. This, our book distribution is the most important task in our society. Therefore I am giving so much stress and I am working so hard on this. Because this is my life and soul according to the order of my Guru Maharaja. And by his grace it is to some extent successful. And I took it seriously. I take it seriously still now. That is my life and soul. I never tried in India to construct big temples or even in your country we didn't. I never tried. But I was selling personally books. That is the history. Sometimes they are criticizing, "What kind of sannyasi? He is doing book business." (laughs) The other day that, what is his name? Bachu Hai came. Bachu Hai Dresswalla. You know him?

Giriraja: I know one Madanlal Dresswalla.

Prabhupada: I think this is... There are two, three Dresswalla in Bhuvanesvara.

Giriraja: Yes, he's also in Bhuvanesvara.

Prabhupada: Maybe their father. In the beginning I had no place so I was staying with, what is that? Prem Niketan?

Giriraja: Prem Kutir.

Prabhupada: Prem Kutir. So they received me very nicely. So I was going to sell my books. So some of them were criticizing, "What kind of sannyasi? He's making business bookselling." Not the authorities, but some of them. I was writing book also there.

Giriraja: I saw the room.

Prabhupada: You have seen? (Srila Prabhupada chuckles) Who showed you?

Giriraja: Hare Krishna Das Agarwal.

Prabhupada: Oh, yes. He was very friendly. Actually, he is the organizer, main person. He showed that, "Here Swamiji was cooking." (laughs) Yes. I was guest for fifteen days, that Dalmia. Not this Jayadal, his big brother, Ram-Krishna. He asked me that his family... He wanted to construct a little cottage in his house, "You can live here. I'll give you a nice cottage." I thought, "No, it is not good to be patronized by a visayi." This is not good. Fully dependent on a materialistic... And he's first-class materialist.

Giriraja: Yes. He's very notorious.

Prabhupada: (laughs) Actually, I thought he's good man, but after woman.

Gopala Krsna: One them has lots of wives.

Prabhupada: That is Ram-Krishna, he's a big brother.

Gopala Krsna: He's also dying now, Tejiyas told me. He's old now.

Prabhupada: Oh, yes. He's of my age. Not less. But he's after three, four wives. His business is to go from one wife's house to another wife's house and each wife's house, expenditure of ten thousand rupees per month. (chuckles) He's a very funny businessman. He has made his wife director and they take money. So to avoid income tax... So, huge expenditure. Each, one house. Income tax cannot say, "Why you are maintaining?" (indistinct) That is not their business. It is comparison. Just like Bhogilal, he's maintaining big, big establishment. So I became his guest for fifteen days. He wanted to stay. I stayed for fifteen days. I first, my requisition was that he you must give me exclusive typewriter for writing my books. So he gave me. And if I would have asked for typewriter he would have given. But I was working with my broken typewriter. I went to our Tirtha Maharaja in Mayapura, that "You give me a room (Srila Prabhupada taps on table) and a typewriter, (tap) and print my books. (tap) Give me some (indistinct) (tap). I join you."

Gopala Krsna: He said no?

Prabhupada: He did not say no, but the printing of books, that was difficult task for him. He had no money. He's hardly collecting for maintaining. And India, printing of books is a big job. There is no guarantee of sale.

Gopala Krsna: He must be feeling sorry for it now. Of course, he's dead. But later on he must be feeling sorry that if he would have given you... Agreed to your request...

Prabhupada: Yes. These things I would have done from Caitanya Maṭha.

Gopala Krsna: I never knew... We never knew that you went to Tirtha Maharaja.

Prabhupada: (chuckles) No... Rather, it is Guru Maharaja's institution. I first of all gave him...

Gopala Krsna: A chance.

Prabhupada: He's head man. "All right. I shall join you."

Gopala Krsna: When was this? Which year?

Prabhupada: In 1953. Before going to America. Two years before.

Giriraja: '63.

Prabhupada: '63, yes.

Gopala Krsna: '63 you were already sannyasa.

Prabhupada: No. '63 I was in Vrndavana. Before that.

Gopala Krsna: Before sannyasa.

Prabhupada: Oh yes.

Hari-sauri: Before coming to Vrndavana.

Prabhupada: Oh yes. At that time I was not sannyasa. That means it was before '58. Somewhere in '57 or... So I tried my Godbrothers, that if they give me facilities for this, then I shall join. Otherwise, I will work independently. So nobody was able to provide me with this.

Gopala Krsna: Nobody?

Prabhupada: Well, they had no money. It requires money, printing of books.

Hari-sauri: How did you manage to get your first Bhagavatams printed?

Gopala Krsna: From donations.

Prabhupada: Donation. This Dalmia, Jayadala, he gave me about four thousand.

Gopala Krsna: H.N. Sharma always tells me, "I helped your Guruji print the first books."

Prabhupada: That was through Hanuman.

Gopala Krsna: Everybody is now taking credit for helping. Now that you are so big everybody says, "I did this. I did that, I did that."

Prabhupada: No, actually, these Dalmia started with four thousand rupees.

Gopala Krsna: They're nice people.

Prabhupada: Oh yes.

Gopala Krsna: I met two of them. They were...

Prabhupada: He gave me twice funds. Four thousand once, five thousand. Five thousand he gave me when I went to America for the second time.

Gopala Krsna: They gave fifteen thousand about three months ago for gurukula in Vrndavana.

Prabhupada: Oh. No, they are sympathetic.

Gopala Krsna: They have promised that after they complete their building, their temple in Janma Bhumi they will give us money regularly. Now they are diverting all their funds to complete that building in Janma Bhumi.

Prabhupada: No, if we want management of that Janma Bhumi they can give it.

Gopala Krsna: That Janma Bhumi?

Prabhupada: I can take it.

Gopala Krsna: No, we can't.

Prabhupada: (indistinct)

Gopala Krsna: So Prabhupada, I was just finalizing today this year's festival when the devotees come. I think instead of having a festival, a pandal in Delhi like we had last year. We had one in Ludhiana and Mathura. In Ludhiana Caityaguru promises that he can raise money for the whole thing. Our devotees won't have to spend a penny. In Delhi if we do a pandal it will require an investment of at least twenty thousand rupees. If we do our festival in Ludhiana, book distribution I calculated will be as good and no money will be invested. We have a festival in Mathura in Janma Bhumi. Every evening by buses devotees will go from Vrndavana to Mathura. You wanted to have a big program there, you remember? When I was in Vrndavana. So we can invite different leaders also.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Hari-sauri: Does that mean Prabhupada will have to travel?

Gopala Krsna: Delhi to Mathura. It's only ten minutes flight. Fifteen minutes. Vrndavana to Mathura it's only fifteen minutes.

Hari-sauri: Last time it was an hour. Almost three-quarters of an hour when we traveled from Vrndavana to go to that program.

Gopala Krsna: Vrndavana to Mathura is not more than fifteen minutes.

Prabhupada: Fifteen to twenty minutes.

Gopala Krsna: Yes. It's not more than that.

Hari-sauri: We were at least... We were...

Prabhupada: That we round about way.

Gopala Krsna: Yes. Usually it takes by motorcycle fifteen minutes. In a car I think we could do it in fifteen minutes. So I calculated our Hindi distribution of books would be very strong because Mathura we can generate big crowds.

Prabhupada: You said that today we'll get another book?

Gopala Krsna: Yes. Probably come by tomorrow.

Prabhupada: What is that book?

Gopala Krsna: Easy Journey to Other Planets. They finished printing it yesterday and they're binding it together. One or two days, it always happens. When I give a date sometimes it gets delayed. So I figured the distribution of Hindi books will be very good. Ludhiana and Mathura and also not much investment will be required. It's very common, devotees go every year and they are tired of it. So this year we should concentrate on book distribution. If we have a pandal in Mathura every evening starting at six o'clock. If we can reach Mathura at five for book distribution it will be nice. Actually I was also thinking of having a three day pandal in Agra.

Prabhupada: Agra is very good.

Gopala Krsna: Yes. Agra is even bigger than Mathura and our book distribution would be good. I'm going to write and see what the possibilities are.

Prabhupada: Nearby cities we can...

Gopala Krsna: Yes, that is what I'm thinking of. Near Vrndavana.

Prabhupada: Away from Vrndavana.

Gopala Krsna: Yes.

Giriraja: There's that one man, he was very enthusiastic there, Mr. Bansalji.

Prabhupada: Bansalji.

Gopala Krsna: From Agra?

Giriraja: Yes.

Prabhupada: Tire merchant?

Giriraja: I don't remember. But Hamsaduta and I went way in the beginning and later on he came during the Delhi pandal. He met you and he wanted us to open a center there.

Prabhupada: Yes. Agra is a very good place. Very nice place. There are devotees. (indistinct) goes there.

Gopala Krsna: We can attract a lot of tourists because Agra always has a lot of tourists. I'm thinking of having a pandal there and Ludhiana.

Prabhupada: Oh yes.

Gopala Krsna: Delhi we had one last year.

Prabhupada: Preaching must go on vigorously.

Gopala Krsna: Especially book distribution is getting very strong with Indians.

Prabhupada: Yes. Preaching means book distribution. Now utilize here this flag ceremony.

Giriraja: Yes.

Gopala Krsna: Flag ceremony. Oh that Gujarati? They have a... When is that?

Giriraja: On the tenth. Procession is on the tenth.

Prabhupada: Do in such a way that that Sharma will feel something.

Gopala Krsna: Only thing is most of our devotees may be in Allahabad. January 10th? All the devotees will be in Allahabad for that Kumbhamela and I don't think we have enough to...

Prabhupada: No, no. They can go after the tenth.

Gopala Krsna: After tenth. Okay.

Prabhupada: By fourteenth or by thirteenth. It takes only one night from here to Allahabad.

Gopala Krsna: Twenty-six hours. We're thinking of renting a small bus for devotees because coming back would be a problem.

Prabhupada: I think Allahabad takes twenty-four hours.

Gopala Krsna: Twenty-six hours.

Prabhupada: Twenty-six hours by train?

Gopala Krsna: Yes.

Prabhupada: And Calcutta?

Gopala Krsna: Calcutta it is thirty-six hours.

Prabhupada: Another ten hours.

Gopala Krsna: About thirty-six hours.

Prabhupada: Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna. Preach as much as possible. By sankirtana, big sankirtana. Big sankirtana is book distribution and small sankirtana is with mrdanga. Big sankirtana is going on all over the world. Small sankirtana locally. Overflood the demons' Godless civilization. Our declaration of war against this Godless civilization.

Giriraja: I met a very, very nice boy yesterday. His father is a life member, but he's studying in Boston at MIT.

Prabhupada: Oh, technology.

Giriraja: Very superexcellent student. But he was so submissive and inquisitive that he could really... And because he lives there...

Prabhupada: He qualified? No.

Giriraja: He's finishing his Ph.D.

Prabhupada: Oh. So he's very qualified.

Giriraja: Yes. And his father said that he is always the first rank in the class. Very outstanding student. And I mean the best thing is his attitude towards Krsna consciousness. He asked for a copy of the Bhagavad-gita and...

Prabhupada: Where he is now?

Giriraja: He's in Bombay so I invited him to meet you. Actually, he was so interested that the father became scared at the end. He said... You know first he was encouraging me to influence the boy but then at the end he said, "Don't make him a sadhu."

Prabhupada: Now he has opened his mind.

Gopala Krsna: What's his name?

Giriraja: Shah.

Prabhupada: Gujarati.

Giriraja: His father is associated with Bhogilal. He's a sharebroker but he's also a director in some of Bhogilal's company.

Prabhupada: That Jain?

Giriraja: Yes.

Prabhupada: Shah's are mostly Jain. Jains are useless.

Giriraja: Oh yes. The father is useless. Every few sentences the father would start to break in with some speculation and the son would say, "Please be quiet. I want to hear."