Press Interview
Bombay
31 Dec

Prabhupada: Caitanya Mahaprabhu is the mercy incarnation for all people. How we can question upon this idea?

Indian man: So you are elaborating on this thing.

Prabhupada: Yes. Ignorance. Stated in Bhagavad-gita, muḍhaḥ; nabhijanati. You take Bhagavad-gita as it is. Mam ebhyaḥ; param avyayam. Tribhir gunamayair bhavaiḥ;. Oh, that is given to that doctor. (Hindi) But that knowledge is being neglected by Indians, and the whole world is in ignorance. The knowledge has to be given by India because knowledge is in India. But the Indians, they have become rascals. They are imitating the rascals. This is reply. India should have given knowledge to the whole world. Instead of, these rascals are imitating their ways of life, and knowledge remains in the darkness throughout the whole world.

Indian man: What do you find, you know, that when you impart this knowledge to Western disciples and when you talk to someone who are in India, what difference do you find?

Prabhupada: Indian men refuse this culture. India's leader, beginning from Gandhi and all, they do not know what is India's culture. They have forgotten.

Indian man: Would you like to include Gandhi also in that?

Prabhupada: Oh yes. Otherwise, how it can be? Andha yathandhair upaniyamanaḥ; [SB 7.5.31].

Indian man: But he was the one who also preached Gita.

Prabhupada: But he did not know Gita. Actually. Recently I have been in his asrama. They are maintaining the chattai (?) and the lantern in memory. What is that? If Mahatma Gandhi understood Gita, he should have introduced that asrama in Gita. Where is that? The chattai (?) food arrangement is there.

Indian man: So that is done by his disciples and not by him. He never...

Prabhupada: That means he could not make his disciple correctly.

Indian man: That is true. That is true.

Prabhupada: Therefore he did not know. Now see how my disciples are working all over the world within ten years. I am sitting here, still going on, my business. So you have to train in such a way. The Deity worship is going on. Bring that recent Denver pictures. They are now opening different branches, establishing Deity exactly in the way I have trained. It is a question of training.

Indian man: How your preaching differs from various acaryas? Say, Sankara or Vallabha or Ramanuja?

Prabhupada: Just in the line of the acaryas.

Indian man: But you are just in the line or you...

Prabhupada: Yes. All the acaryas established hundreds and thousands of temples. So I am establishing all over the world. What did in India I am doing all over the world. Now just see how they are...

Indian man: Each acarya differed in interpretation of religion and approach to it. You diff... Sankara and Vallabha say...

Prabhupada: There are two sections, the impersonalist and the personalist. The personalists are the Vaisnavas, and the impersonalists are the Mayavadis. So far the spiritual life is concerned, there is no difference. There is no difference. Just like Sankara. Sankaracarya said that brahma satyam jagan mithya. The spiritual life is reality. And this is nonreality. But we say that this is duḥ;khalayam asasvatam [Bg. 8.15]. Krsna said. We are follower of Krsna. "This is a place of suffering. And if you come to Me then your suffering ends." So this world is condemned either by Sankaracarya, or others, everyone. But the modern rascals, they have taken this world as everything. Therefore they are in ignorance. Do you follow? They have taken this world, this life of fifty years or sixty years, at most hundred years, as reality. These rascals have no knowledge that we have life after annihilation of this body. Tatha dehantara-praptiḥ; [Bg. 2.13]. Who knows it? Bring big, big men, big, big politician.

Indian man: What about so many saints who are preaching yoga and religion all over the world?

Prabhupada: Anyone who does not know the science, they are not saint. They are cheaters. If they do not know the science, what is spiritual life, what is material life. So their speaking is simply cheating. Therefore we should state the standard, Bhagavad-gita, the acaryas. In the Bhagavad-gita it is said acaryopasanam. Take the acaryas, Ramanujacarya, Madhvacarya, even Sankaracarya. So there must be standard. It is... Some of them are manufacturing some spiritual life. Just like Vivekananda did, daridra-narayana-seva. Is there any such word in our Vedic sastras? Daridra-narayana? Narayana has become daridra? One has to worship daridra-narayana.

Indian man: You don't agree with what has been preached...

Prabhupada: Why shall I agree? Because there is no such thing in the sastra. Is there word, any word, in the whole Bhagavad-gita, daridra-narayana-seva?

Indian man: No, but what Ramakrishna Paramahamsa...

Prabhupada: Ramakrishna, how he become paramahamsa if he does not know the sastra? That is the difficulty. Everyone becoming self-made guru, self-made avatara, self-made saint. That is the difficulty. Without any reference to the authentic sastra.

Indian man: So it's a very revealing thing, you deny Ramakrishna Paramahamsa...

Prabhupada: I don't deny. You accept, you accept. My point is unless it is authoritatively mentioned in the sastra, we reject.

Indian man: But sastras were written thousands of years ago. Life might have changed.

Prabhupada: That's all right. In the sastras it is not said that after passing of many years the sastra becomes obsolete. This is another ignorance. Sastra is not like that. You write some mental speculation and after some years it changes. That is not sastra. Sastra is this... Just like the Bhagavata was, five thousand years ago it was it was written... And the symptoms of Kali, Kali-yuga is written there in the Twelfth Canto.

Indian man: The complete purport was written five thousand years back.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Indian man: But most of the scholars, they say...

Prabhupada: He is not a scholar. He's a rascal. We have to follow the acaryas. The acaryas never said. There are so many acaryas. They never say. So, we have to follow, acaryopasanam, not the rascals. We cannot worship the rascals. Worship acaryas. They are guide. So sastra says... Find out sa evayam maya te 'dya yogaḥ; proktaḥ; puratanaḥ;. Puratanaḥ;, Krsna says that imam vivasvate yogam proktavan aham avyayam [Bg. 4.1], "I spoke this science to Vivasvan, the sun-god." So if you calculate sun, this sun, Vivasvan, is the father of Manu, Vaivasvata Manu. And if you take, calculate, it becomes forty millions of years. So this Bhagavad-gita is spoken, according to the Bhagavad-gita, according to the version of Krsna, forty millions of years ago. Now He says that science was known to the people by parampara. And that parampara is lost somehow or other. Therefore as... [break] Suppose you are born in Bombay, but you do not know how the state is being managed, then what is my jñana? If you do not know how the state is being managed then what is your jñana? That jñana is, dogs and cats, they have also jñana. How to eat, how to sleep, how to use sex life, how to defend. This is not jñana. Everyone knows it. If you know God, who is conducting the whole, that is jñana. So if you do not know who is the supreme controller...

Indian man: Knowing God through sastras is one thing, but can a realization come in life as Arjuna had?

Prabhupada: No.

Indian man: As Arjuna had the visvarupa-darsana.

Prabhupada: No, that is not... Arjuna said, sisyas te 'ham sadhi mam prapannam [Bg. 2.7]. For that jñana you have to become sisya to the acarya or it is useless.

Indian man: But then you can get the realization, what Arjuna got, visvarupa-darsana.

Prabhupada: Yes, everything. If you go, tad vijñanartham sa gurum evabhigacchet [MU 1.2.12]. Tad viddhi pranipatena pariprasnena sevaya upadeksyanti tad jñanam [Bg. 4.34]. This is this process.

Indian man: If it is not too much a personal question, have you had a saksaska?(?)

Prabhupada: Yes. Otherwise, why I am talking?

Indian man: But what was your experience of that saksaska?

Prabhupada: Now how you will understand unless you come to the science? [break] Gandhi manufactured. The Bhagavad-gita is spoken in the battlefield, and he wanted to draw the conclusion of nonviolence. What is this? Krsna says kutas tva kasmalam idam visame... "In this battlefield you are talking of nonsense, that 'I'll not fight.' " He says so and Gandhi wanted to make it nonviolent. Just see how from the very beginning he distorted. And people accept it. Yad yad acarati sresṭhaḥ; [Bg. 3.21]. He was a sresṭha, leader. So whatever he will say people will accept. The whole India became spoiled.

Indian man: But the way to saksaska (?) is only...

Prabhupada: Saksaska is... Krsna is speaking, "Here I am." Aham sarvasya prabhavaḥ; [Bg. 10.8]. Now why not saksaska? You can have. Unless you believe... You do not believe it.

Indian man: It is a...? It is a belief or is it...?

Prabhupada: Rather, if somebody says, "I am your father." So if you don't believe then how it can be believed?

Indian man: But there is somebody, some concrete person, telling me that "I am your father," but...

Prabhupada: Yes. Nobody knows who is his father.

Indian man: I want to understand, Guruji, that the saksaska, is it a sort of emotional belief or it is a concrete...

Prabhupada: No emotional. It is fact. Concrete.

Indian man: Concrete reality.

Prabhupada: Yes. If your mother says, "Here is your father," that's all right. You don't require any other. And that is parampara. Mother knows how you were created by your father. So she is the ultimate evidence. That's all. You cannot speculate. If you disbelieve your mother, then there is no question of understanding your father.

Indian man: We all have at certain moments of devotion some sort of feelings when we feel we are very much near the God. But that concrete reality, to attain that, the only way is jñana, upasana.

Prabhupada: Yes, this is jñana. But the jñana must be received through the right source. Jñana is not speculation. The modern rascals, they create jñana by speculation. That is not jñana. That is ajñana. The same example. If you don't receive jñana from your mother, there is no jñana of father. If you millions of years go on speculating who is your father he'll never be revealed. That is not jñana. That is ajñana. So these rascals, they are creating jñana. That is not jñana. Jñana means you should receive jñana through the right source.

Indian man: And what is the upasana you will be prescribing for those people who want to achieve jñana?

Prabhupada: Yes, upasana. It is stated in the Bhagavad-gita, amanitvam adambhitvam ahimsa ksantir arjavam acaryopasanam [Bg. 13.8]. Vinigrahaḥ;, indriya-vinigrahaḥ;. Find out this, Thirteenth Chapter. These are the process. First of all amanitvam. You have to surrender yourself that "I am insignificant." But in beginning you are puffed up. "I am so academic. Now I have got Ph.D." Rascals. First, beginning is amanitvam. And as soon as we become puffed-up, a little knowledge... A Little knowledge is dangerous. Then finished. So they are doing like that. A little knowledge, I think, "I have become more than my Guru Maharaja." Finished. That is the defect. Find out. Read the...

Pradyumna:

amanitvam adambhitvam
ahimsa ksantir arjavam
acaryopasanam saucam
sthairyam atma-vinigrahaḥ;
[Bg. 13.8]

indriyarthesu vairagyam
anahankara eva ca
janma-mrtyu-jara-vyadhi...
[Bg. 13.9]

Prabhupada: Everyone is after sense gratification. No vairagya. And he's in knowledge. His qualification is like dog and he has become a man of knowledge. [break]

Indian man: To go to Krsna.

Prabhupada: Finish this.

Pradyumna: Asaktir anabhisvangaḥ; putra-dara-grhadisu.

Prabhupada: Ah. Asaktir anabhisvangaḥ; putra-dara-grha. Everyone is attached. And this is ignorance. This is illusion. That developed society, community, nationality. But what is that? That attachment. But that attachment has to be taken away. That is knowledge. But we are teaching people how to become more and more attached in the name of Communism, Socialism, this ism, that ism, nationalism. These things are not given. The truth in all this means increasing putra-dara-grhadisu. Not asakti but asakti. Increasing ignorance. Then?

Pradyumna: Nityam ca sama-cittatvam isá¹­anisá¹­opapattisu.

Prabhupada: Nityam ca sama-cittatvam. We should not be disturbed by this worldly disturbance. Tams titiksasva bharata. Real business is how to stop this birth, death, old age and disease. But they are not concerned with these things. They are simply disturbed with little temporary discomfort. Then?

Pradyumna: Mayi cananya-yogena...

Prabhupada: Mayi cananya-yogena bhaktir...

Pradyumna: Avyabhicarini.

Prabhupada: Ah. Central point is to become devotee of Krsna. Then?

Pradyumna: Vivikta-desa-sevitvam aratir jana-samsadi [Bg. 13.11].

Prabhupada: Ah. Not to mix with this rascal class of men. Aratir jana-samsadi. Not that I hold a meeting and some rascals give me clapping, (claps hands) I become... Don't be after this. Try to understand the reality. But we, we become political leader, and if one thousand or one lakh of people give me a few claps I think I become perfect. What you are perfect? The next moment by the laws of nature you'll be slapped and taken away. Who could save Gandhi when he was fired by the laws by the nature? That clapping would not save me. Mrtyuḥ; sarva-haras caham [Bg. 10.34]. When Krsna will come and put you death, what you will do? With you clapping and your bank balance. You'll be taken away. Then?

Pradyumna: Adhyatma-jñana-nityatvam tattva-jñanartha-darsanam.

Prabhupada: Tattva-jñanartha-darsanam. Tattva-jñana. What is tattva? These things are absent completely from the whole world. But everything is there. Therefore we are presenting Bhagavad-gita As It Is. If people take it they'll be benefited. This simple mission. We are following Caitanya Mahaprabhu's mission. Caitanya Mahaprabhu has said that you become guru. Everyone become guru. So how shall I become guru? Very simple thing.

amara ajñaya guru haña tara' ei desa
yare dekha, tare kaha 'krsna'-upadesa
[Cc. Madhya 7.128]

Bas. Simply if we repeat what is stated in the Bhagavad-gita, then we become guru. And if you can convince a person, one person, then you get your... But no. They are creating their own manufactured knowledge, manufactured process, and exploiting Bhagavad-gita. What is said in the Bhagavad-gita, they'll never say. They'll take a Bhagavad-gita and pose himself that "I am a great scholar of Bhagavad-gita. I have got my own interpretation that I go to hell and you go to hell." That's all.

Indian man: What does, as you were telling about Gandhi and Aurobindo or Tilak or Gyaneshwar. What...

Prabhupada: No, no. Why you are asking? You study then whether they have spoken something else or Bhagavad-gita. It is your business. Why you are asking me? But we say anyone who says against Bhagavad-gita, he's a rascal.

Indian man: No, but they have said something in favor of Bhagavad-gita.

Prabhupada: But I don't see that they have made one single Krsna bhakta, neither they were Krsna bhakta. What kind of Bhagavad-gita they have read I do not know. I see by the result. The last word of Bhagavad-gita is man-mana bhava mad-bhakto... Mam eva... Sarva-dharman. That is study of Bhagavad-gita. They do not speak of Krsna anywhere, that "Krsna is the Supreme Person, you become a devotee." Now how he has read Bhagavad-gita? I shall take it? Simply make jugglery of words? We have to see the result. They have neither made one Krsna bhakta, neither they were Krsna bhakta. How he has read Bhagavad-gita? Tell me. This is the test. They... Whole country is after Gandhi or Aurobindo or big, big. But who is Krsna bhakta under their direction? Now we are simply following Caitanya Mahaprabhu, yare dekha tare kaha 'krsna'-upadesa [Cc. Madhya 7.128]. Just see. Thousands are become Krsna bhakta. See by practical.

Indian man: Simply by chanting Krsna.

Prabhupada: Whatever Krsna has said we are speaking. That's all. We have no botheration. We haven't got to manufacture ideas. And that is being effective. See practically. Similarly, if you do that the whole world will be student of Bhagavad-gita. And if you manufacture your nonsense idea it is useless. Sa kaleneha yogo nasṭaḥ; parantapa. Bas. Nasṭa. So it is nasṭa, hogya [finished]. If it is lost, if it is decomposed, then what will be the benefit? Suppose if I supply you some nice foodstuff but it is rotten, nasṭa, then what benefit you'll get? If I give you some fresh prepared nice foodstuff, you'll get some benefit out of it. But if I give you rotten thing in the name of foodstuff, then what benefit you'll get? So Krsna says as soon as you break this parampara system it is rotten. So, by jugglery of our words, if you present rotten things, what benefit they will get?

Indian man: What is your message for Indian people?

Prabhupada: That people take Bhagavad-gita as it is. You'll be benefited, the whole world will be benefited. Our thing is simple. It is stated there, yare dekha tare kaha 'krsna'-upadesa [Cc. Madhya 7.128]. You learn first of all Bhagavad-gita as it is, and you preach. They are hankering after.

Indian man: What do you think of miracle saints? The saints who perform miracles?

Prabhupada: Miracles? Why do you want miracles? What miracle? Can you save a man from death? Can you show this miracle? This miracle means cheating. The real problem is janma-mrtyu-jara-vyadhi [Bg. 13.9].

Indian man: No but can a saint...

Prabhupada: Why you are after miracles?

Indian man: No, but one thing. Is it possible for a saint at certain stage of sadhana to perform miracles?

Prabhupada: That is cheating. Here, in the Bhagavad-gita, you don't find anywhere that you show miracles. He says man-mana bhava mad-bhakto mad-yaji mam namaskuru [Bg. 18.65]. He never says that you show miracles. These are all rascals. You become His bhakta. That is the greatest miracle. And he guarantees, mam evaisyasi asamsayam. That is miracle. What is this miracle, cheating other people by showing some magic or jugglery of words. These are miracles? That is cheating.

Indian man: But to a layman what would you preach?

Prabhupada: Layman, if he does not go to the right man he'll suffer. What can be done?

Indian man: But where should it begin?

Prabhupada: Begin when one who is Krsna bhakta. Begin there.

tad viddhi pranipatena
pariprasnena sevaya
upadeksyanti te jñanam
jñaninas tattva...
[Bg. 4.34]

Who has seen actually Krsna, go to him. But you are going to somebody who can manufacture gold. Because you are not concerned with Krsna. You are concerned with gold. That is your motive. So you must be cheated. You want to be cheated. Na te viduḥ; svartha-gatim hi visnum [SB 7.5.31]. They do not know. Life's mission is how to achieve the platform where I can talk with Krsna, I can talk with Lord. Where is that? Nobody knows that. They do not believe there is Krsna, there is Lord, there is God and you can see Him, you can talk with Him. They do not believe. Mostly impersonalists. And impersonalists, they're all mostly atheists. So what they'll do by jugglery and this magic? This magic will be finished within twenty or thirty years. That will be finished. Show this magic that "No! No more death." That is real magic. What is this magic? In a moment you'll be slapped and go. Then tatha dehantara-praptiḥ; [Bg. 2.13]. You do not know where you are going. Krsna says tatha dehantara-praptiḥ;. But you do not know what kind of body you are going to get. So what this magic will do? So these are for less intelligent persons. They are not for sane persons.

Indian man: For spreading this movement in India, are you hopeful it will be?

Prabhupada: Yes. Those who are sincere. Those who are after jugglery, magic...

Indian man: They will not come.

Prabhupada: They will be cheated.

Indian doctor: Srila Prabhupada, the medical we are preparing (indistinct).

Prabhupada: So now it is late. So you stay, take prasada.

Indian doctor: No, I'm... I am here only for three, four times a year. And get everything done. I'll give instruction in writing, they will write it down and I'll be there till evening or five tomorrow and go out for the preparation. These are to be taken with the the bath.

Prabhupada: All right. Do it. For the time being, what I took yesterday, my lunch, I'll take. And these things we can begin from tomorrow because it is already arranged.

Indian doctor: No, pills can be taken. [break]

Indian man: It is there in sastras.

Prabhupada: Yes. And if you don't care for the sastras, if you manufacture your own way, then, as it is stated, na siddhim savapnoti. You'll never be successful. Na sukham na param gatim. Neither happiness nor better life will be next or the supreme goal. These things finished. Yaḥ; sastra-vidhim utsrjya vartate kama-karataḥ; [Bg. 16.23]. If you do not take the guidance of the sastra then all your hope is finished. You can hope, but you'll never... This is our... Therefore we follow the sastras and we teach others to follow sastras. If you like you can do. Otherwise do whatever you like. But you don't manufacture and spoil my life and others. You don't do.

Indian man: There was some trouble with your movement in America recently.

Prabhupada: We don't care for this trouble. If you are sincere it is all right. We are facing so many difficulties. We don't care for it. We never compromise. All my students, they will never compromise. Why shall I compromise? If I am confident that I am speaking the truth, why shall I make compromise? Those who are not confident of his position, they will make compromise. One who does not know where he stands, he will make compromise. And if I know where I am standing, why shall I make compromise? Let others do whatever he likes. This is our position.

Indian man: Do not strain guru too much.

Devotees: Thank you very much. (offer obeisances) [break]

Prabhupada: Most important movement. (Hindi) You are in a good position. Try to convince others. Life should be for para-upakara. Not exploiting. This is India's mission. That is Caitanya Mahaprabhu says,

bharata-bhumite haila manusya-janma yara
janma sarthaka kari' kara para-upakara
[Cc. Adi 9.41]

This is India's... Anyone who has taken birth in India, first of all make his life perfect by understanding the sastra. The gist of sastra is Bhagavad-gita. And then distribute the knowledge. Para-upakara. This should be India's mission. India hasn't got to learn from anywhere else. Everything is there. Let him understand the whole philosophy of life perfectly and distribute this. This is India's mission. So I have tried alone on this point. So I have got little success. And before me so many swamis, yogis went there. They came and go. No effect. Now I have created a community which will continue. They're now saying, "American Hindus." Therefore there is opposition. They understand, "Now it will stand." It is not that Vivekananda's daridra-narayana-seva. (indistinct).

Indian man: Something permanent.

Prabhupada: Yes. Jaya. (end)