Prabhupada: He's taking so much labor. Through English?

Hari-sauri: Romanized devanagari. [break]

Prabhupada: ...books, but they are not selling with... Where is my spectacle?

Hari-sauri: No, there's hundreds and millions of books in India, all, so many, and no one buys them. (long pause) The man's not very intelligent. He's showing a diagram here showing how the languages evolved through the ages. So he's put that the original language was spoken in Stonehenge, and he shows a man wearing a bearskin (laughs). [break]

Prabhupada: ...some central point of unity. But the disunity is increasing.

Hari-sauri: Yes.

Prabhupada: And the real platform of unity is Krsna consciousness. Our members, although they speak different languages from different countries, but still they are united.

Hari-sauri: Purpose is the same.

Prabhupada: Language does not make united. This Bangladesh, they speak Bengali. They write Bengali. But why they are separate? America and England, they speak the same language. Why Washington declared independence? Australia, they have also declared independence from England just a piece of land. So there cannot be unity on any platform unless there is Krsna consciousness. It is impossible.

Hari-sauri: Krsna consciousness is the only thing that encompasses everything.

Prabhupada: Yes. This is false idea that by language, linguistic unity there will be... There are so many different examples. Pakistan, they speak Hindi also. Yes, they speak Hindi. And why there is separation? Bangladesh, they speak Bengali. Why they are separated from West Bengal? The linguistic unity is not... Any material platform, there cannot be unity. Brahma-bhutaḥ; prasannatma [Bg. 18.54]. [break]

Hari-sauri: It's the white one. It's on my bed. [break]

Devotee: Hari-sauri is asking if you can take... [break]

Jagadisa: Well, that doesn't mean I can. [break]

Indian lady: In our schools and college...

Prabhupada: (Bengali) She'll understand Bengali. (Bengali) That explains. (Bengali)

Indian lady: Why don't they teach this in our schools and colleges?

Prabhupada: Because they won't take it. They'll take this unauthorized interpretation.

Indian lady: I remember, I come from Sindh, and before partition, we were taught all these religious books in our school. But now...

Prabhupada: Simply reading will not do. You have to learn from the right person.

Indian lady: By reading, reading, we learn.

Prabhupada: No, if you read as it is, then you will be benefited. But if you read these rubbish commentaries, then (speaks to another man) You inquired about that land? He wants to avoid the land.

Indian man: We have met the court, and the land is still available. Depends on your convenience at how things go.

Giriraja: Yes, we'll take a look at it.

Devotee: When can we go?

Giriraja: Tuesday?

Indian man: Or Wednesday would be even better.

Devotee: Morning?

Indian man: We can pick him up or meet him there. (Devotees talk briefly with Indians)

Indian man: Srila Prabhupada there is another request from Mrs. (indistinct) and she would like to invite you and other devotees to show the film and other things and they can arrange a good (indistinct) over there. (indistinct) And they have got a very good school over there. So anytime can be given within this or after going to Kumbha-mela?

Prabhupada: After it would be (indistinct).

Indian man: During the 7th of January or...

Prabhupada: I may be going away by the 3lst. And there visit the Kumbha-mela. (everyone talking at once)

Gopala Krsna: Devotees will be going there starting from the 5th by installments.

Indian man: We can keep it up till 20th, after 20th of January.

Prabhupada: Yes. Kumbha-mela will be over...

Gopala Krsna: For the 24th I thought.

Indian man: 24th, last weekend.

Prabhupada: Yes. So our only request is that you read Bhagavad-gita As It Is. You'll be benefited. And if you interpret whimsically, then you'll rot, spoil. There is no benefit by eating spoiled foodstuff. Krsna says... Jaya. Jaya. Prasada, liye.

Indian lady: (indistinct)

Prabhupada: Oh yes, you are welcome always. Whenever you find time. (Hindi) Janma sarthaka kari' kara para-upakara [Cc. Adi 9.41]. This is Caitanya. First of all, make your life successful. That successful means yei krsna-tattva-vetta sei guru haya [Cc. Madhya 8.128], to understand Krsna thoroughly. Then you become guru. When you understand Krsna, then you are janma sarthaka. And then you can speak para-upakara. Otherwise, it is not possible. Without Krsna tattva-jñana, if we become leader, that will not take... yei krsna-tattva-vetta sei guru haya [Cc. Madhya 8.128]. What is that?

Devotee: I got a different vase.

Prabhupada: This is spoiled. Oh. Another.

Devotee: This is a different.

Indian lady: But through chanting also you get...

Prabhupada: Yes, that is the easiest process. Now the previous (indistinct) was spoiled and it was not clear. So it is spoiled. But now it is clear, it is nice. Not clear means something added.

Indian lady: Adulterated.

Prabhupada: Something adulteration. Adulterated things are not good. Pure thing, that is good. Why do they not accept? Let us discuss something. Why these people interpret? What is the reason to spoil it?

Indian lady: To gain the leadership?

Prabhupada: But with that leadership, if you cheat others, does it mean leadership?

Indian lady: Or importance. Or the ego which they, "I have got so many followers. Whether I'm wrong or right, everyone thinks I'm right."

Prabhupada: So what is the meaning of these followers who are all... What is called? Just like sometimes the... What is called? You take so many lambs, what is that called?

Devotee: Shepherd?

Prabhupada: Shepherd. Yes. The shepherd has many followers. But does it mean any meaning?

Indian lady: We are the sheep without any understanding we blindly follow. The public I mean.

Prabhupada: Yes. So that does not mean that that man is very important, the shepherd, because you follow. What is the meaning of...

Indian lady: But the sheep has no sense of herd. What poor sheep can do?

Prabhupada: That's all right. Because thousands of sheep following one shepherd, does it mean the shepherd is an important man?

Indian lady: One sheep thinks that "So many sheep are following, with me..."

Prabhupada: That's all right. I say the shepherd is an important man because there is...?

Indian lady: No, not that. No no.

Prabhupada: No. Then why you take that? That is explained the Bhagavatam, sva-viḍ-varahosṭra-kharaiḥ; samstutaḥ; purusaḥ; pasuḥ; [SB 2.3.19]. The shepherd may be followed by so many sheep but that does not mean he's an important man. That is the... That is the, going on. The so-called leaders, they are just like shepherd and we are like sheep. But that does not mean the shepherd is an important man.

Indian man: Then what is alternative of that. Can we not change? Suppose I am a sheep...

Prabhupada: You can change immediately. Sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam [Bg. 18.66]. You can change immediately within a second.

Indian man: Within a second.

Prabhupada: But because you are sheeps, you'll not do.

Indian lady: But we'll change only when there is a guru-krpa.

Prabhupada: Krsna says... You are taking Bhagavad-gita, the leader is taking Bhagavad-gita, and he's speaking nonsense. So we are human beings, we should know what Krsna says. Krsna says, evam parampara praptam imam rajarsayo viduḥ; [Bg. 4.2]. The parampara, whether he's speaking parampara or he's speaking whimsically. That much sense we must have. Otherwise, I am the same sheep. Then why you are speaking which is not in the parampara? at least, you should be... Now this movement is started, because on this principle, That why these rascals are speaking not in the parampara? That is my seed of starting this movement. I must start the movement. That is the impetus of this movement, that they must speak according to the parampara. And someone allowed them to speak otherwise. Therefore I wrote this book, Bhagavad-gita As It Is. Don't make interpretations. And by the grace of Krsna it has become to some extent successful. That is the impetus. Why they should talk nonsense? It is clear that evam parampara praptam [Bg. 4.2]. Parampara means... That is also explained.

imam vivasvate yogam
proktavan aham avyayam
vivasvan manave praha
manur iksvakave 'bravit
[Bg. 4.1]

So if that parampara is lost, now you take the next parampara. As Krsna says, and speak that puratana-yoga. Find out this. Sa evayam... Yogaḥ; proktaḥ; puratanaḥ; evayam te.

Pradyumna:

sa evayam maya te 'dya
yogaḥ; proktaḥ; puratanaḥ;
bhakto 'si me sakha ceti
rahasyam hy etad uttamam
[Bg. 4.3]

Prabhupada: I'm just talking to you the same old yoga system. There is no change. Puratana. Why they make new interpretation? Krsna is saying the puratana, and these people are presenting new interpretation of Bhagavad-gita. Just see. How much misuse has been done. Try to understand. No effect.

Indian lady: I'm asking a question. How to stop this which is going on only if we chant God's name, this poor activity...?

Prabhupada: This is also chanting. If you speak Bhagavad-gita As It Is, this is also chanting.

Indian lady: Preach to everybody as it is.

Prabhupada: Yes. Present Bhagavad-gita As It Is.

Indian lady: You must know what is in Gita.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Indian lady: Then nobody can fool you. And you know in our so-called guru baba's speeches, without guru-krpa you can't get anything. They want to enter...

Prabhupada: No, no. First of all we...

Indian lady: Without guru-krpa we can't get. You can't achieve the goal.

Prabhupada: That's all right, but you have to ask whether are you guru?

Indian lady: That sense you must have. You must know what is what.

Prabhupada: Yes. You are not guru, you are goru. Goru means cow. Sa eva go-kharaḥ;. You are not guru. You are speaking against Krsna so you are not guru. Guru is Arjuna. Because a confidential instruction is given to Arjuna, so we accept Arjuna as guru. Or one who is following Arjuna, he is guru. Arjuna has accepted Krsna, param brahma param dhama pavitram paramam bhavan [Bg. 10.12]. You accept Krsna as param brahma. You want to become param brahma. You are cheating people. You do not say Krsna is param brahma, but you are replacing Him. Then you are cheater, you are not guru. That has to be done. So organize this. Very plain thing. Very plain thing. Just like Caitanya Mahaprabhu did. Yare dekha tare kaha krsna-upadesa [Cc. Madhya 7.128]. Bas. You become guru.

Indian lady: He said wherever you go you say Krsna's katha. That is your duty.

Prabhupada: You become guru.

amara ajñaya guru haña tara' ei desa
yare dekha tare kaha 'krsna'-upadesa
[Cc. Madhya 7.128]

(indistinct) Caitanya Mahaprabhu is guru, He says that on My order you become guru. But he does not say that "What I am teaching." He says yare dekha tare kaha krsna-upadesa [Cc. Madhya 7.128]. He could say "What instruction I have given." No.

Indian lady: Caitanya Mahaprabhu said, you have said, now the gurus are saying. That what I am saying you preach. He doesn't say. He said what Krsna said.

Prabhupada: That is guru. One who says like that, he is guru.

Indian lady: (Bengali) Actually, you must work and achieve bhakti. (Hindi)

Prabhupada: You can live with your son, husband, you can live. I can give you a room like this. So you haven't got to live underneath a tree. We have got up to date. (Hindi—asks if they have seen Vrndavana)

Indian lady: You must go to Vrndavana, everywhere.

Prabhupada: We are offering best facility.

Indian lady: No she is saying, she wants to...

Prabhupada: Similarly, you have seen our Navadvipa also?

Indian lady: Mayapura dekhi.

Prabhupada: Mayapura, yes. So we are giving, as far as possible, comfortable life. Because modern man, he cannot go to the forest and live underneath a tree. That is not possible. Therefore by begging, begging, spending blood, we are getting money all over the world and spend it like this. For me, I can live anywhere. And I can collect one or two ruṭi anywhere. It is not for me. It is for you. I have invited. Come here, stay and preach this cult, Hare Krsna movement. That I want. People are being cheated all over the world shamelessly.

Indian lady: What about this Guru Grantha Saheb.(?) The philosophy which Guru Grantha Saheb has, what is that about?

Prabhupada: Well why you are going here and there? Why don't you take one Bhagavad-gita.

Indian lady: Inquisitive mind asks that question.

Prabhupada: I do not know what is Guru Grantha Saheb, but I know Bhagavad-gita. That's all. I am not so learned scholar that I have to read this, that, that. I simply know what Krsna has said, and I know Caitanya Mahaprabhu advises yare dekha tare kaha. That I have done. That's all.

Indian man: You have six o'clock in the morning same thing, six o'clock in the evening same thing. No change. In the morning I was also there. No change. I've brought this gentleman and this lady they want to come here and stay and work for the institution. He's 74 years old and she's also very active and she knows very good cooking.

Prabhupada: Hm, very good.

Indian man: They cannot speak in English. That's the whole difficulty, they are speaking Hindi and Gujarati. They are very, feeling very shy. And he's very great expert in growing this wheat grass which has become very popular. Everybody likes very much. Your devotees are also liking. He's an expert in this. He's a very good music teacher, he has a very good tape recordist. Puppeteer, also he's making these puppet for last twenty years. He's expert in making puppets. We can make krsna-katha puppets also for our theater. And he can train our young boys for the same thing. Video tape and everything, he knows about this audio-visual communication...

Prabhupada: Everyone has got some talent. So svakarmana tam abhyarcya. That is wanted. Whatever talent you have got you can utilize for Krsna.

Indian man: And I want to utilize for Krsna consciousness. I know him for last 22 years.

Prabhupada: (Hindi) ...this grass.

Indian man: That is a very good, that was wanted by (indistinct), he is taking every day.

Prabhupada: In Krsna consciousness, all varieties of work can be utilized. (Hindi) Kirtaniyaḥ; sada hariḥ; [Cc. Adi 17.31]. He got perfection, Vaiyasaki, Sukadeva Gosvami, simply narrated. Narration is also kirtana. Recitation of Bhagavatam. By reciting Srimad-Bhagavatam he became perfect. Abhavad vaiyasakiḥ; kirtane. Sri-visnoḥ; sravane pariksit. Pariksit Maharaja simply listened. There are navadha-bhakti, nine kinds of bhakti process. Any one of them, you be expert and you'll be perfect. Sravanam kirtanam visnoḥ; smaranam pada-sevanam [SB 7.5.23]. So, where his family?

Indian man: He has got one son and daughter. His family is in Bombay. One son is expired earlier. And he has got good talent of teaching Hindi, music, and tape recording. He's such work. And she knows cooking, very good cooking.

Prabhupada: Yes, if she gives cooking direction.

Indian man: She is also quite expert in cooking. (Hindi) He plays very good harmonium.

Indian man (2): All musical instruments.

Prabhupada: No, we don't want to introduce harmonium.

Indian man: No, I know. That is what he's teaching at the moment. He's doing it out of force.

Prabhupada: The other musical instrument, if he plays his attention will be diverted in musical instrument, not to chanting. "We have to see melody, whether it is going on nicely." But that is not good. Our concentration should be hearing Hare Krsna. That is... That is bhakti. Caitanya Mahaprabhu, simply this karatala, khola, that's all. In those days... Of course, there was no harmonium, but many stringed instruments were there. Sitar, esaraja, but these things were not used. Sometimes we do use to attract, but it is not required. (Hindi)

Indian lady: Yesterday I was (indistinct). The way it was for me, prema-bhakti. Through music it is very easy. (indistinct) You have to take rest now.

Prabhupada: No, I have to take prasada. (indistinct)

Indian man: Srila Prabhupada, I've got some good quality tape. If you like it you can get more. Very good quality. [break]

Prabhupada: ...saintly person. Such men should understand. Rajarsi. Not ordinary king. Ṛsi. Ṛsi tulya. So if one is religious, then he will institute. Yad yad acarati sresṭhas tat tad evetaro janaḥ; [Bg. 3.21]. If the big, big leaders, politicians, they accept Bhagavad-gita As It Is, then others will follow. Unfortunately, the leaders, they have their own interpretation. They won't accept Bhagavad-gita. That is the difficulty.

Indian man: Prabhupada, how about opening one temple in Ahmedabad?

Prabhupada: Why not? We are opening everywhere, why not in Ahmedabad? Good idea. I want to open centers in every village, in every town.

Indian man: That is very good, but to begin with, if such centers... I was discussing with Giriraja...

Prabhupada: Is there any chance of opening?

Indian man: Yes. In Ahmedabad? Why not? There is no obstruction. The Christians have now opened up two centers. Arya-samaj has opened one. So there is no restriction. And these areas, like Ahmedabad or in some of the African countries where people have still no inclination or no knowledge of one particular kind of religion or particular thing, they are open to anything which is given to them.

Prabhupada: There must be preacher, good preacher.

Indian man: Preacher of their language. But language (indistinct).

Prabhupada: Language can be managed if there is good preacher.

Indian man: But in these areas they don't require such intelligent preachers. Intelligence is required in cities where people are full of logic and want to argue right or wrong. And where they're determined to prove that "You are wrong, I am right," there you require...

Prabhupada: That will not help. That is my propaganda. If they are induced to chant Hare Krsna...

Indian man: That's all. But for that very big preaching is not required. Sincerity is required.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Indian man: It is the personal sincere influence which one...

Prabhupada: America, I simply began this chanting and few minutes speaking.

Indian man: But I've never (indistinct) one of those centers are open, it will do very well.

Prabhupada: (Hindi) Yare dekha tare kaha krsna-upadesa [Cc. Madhya 7.128]. You simply repeat, recite, the instruction of Krsna. That is preaching. That is preaching. And we are doing the same thing. We are doing. We are not introducing any new interpretation. Whatever Krsna has said, bas, finished. And that is becoming effective. We haven't got to manufacture anything.

Indian man: Prabhupada? Jiva Gosvami was the guru of Mira?

Prabhupada: No. I do not know who is the guru of Mirabhai. But Mirabhai, from the childhood, she was a devotee. But I do not hear anyone as her guru.

Indian man: No, but who was living in Vrndavana. Was Jiva Gosvami living in Vrndavana?

Prabhupada: Yes. Six Gosvamis. Rupa, Sanatana, Bhaṭṭa Raghunatha, Sri Jiva, Gopala Bhaṭṭa, Dasa Raghunatha. Six Gosvamis, they were immediate disciples of Caitanya Mahaprabhu. They were entrusted to develop Vrndavana. And they did it. Modern Vrndavana means, this is the contribution of the Six Gosvamis. [break]

Indian man: ...a portion which says that when she went there and...

Prabhupada: So that may be, whatever is there, but Rupa Gosvami had no reason to refuse seeing a woman.

Indian man: No, but, that... Which Gosvami?

Prabhupada: No, any Gosvami. Because the Gosvamis were so popular that amongst the villagers, when there was some disagreement between family members they used to come to him and say to him, "Baba, (Hindi)." That means in that way he had to see many women many times. Why he should refuse? And what is the meaning of refusing if one, anybody... Even Caitanya Mahaprabhu did not refuse, but women used to offer their respect from little distance, not very near. That was Caitanya Mahaprabhu's restriction. But in our association there is no such thing as refusing anyone the opportunity. Krsna does not say. Mam hi partha vyapasritya ye 'pi syuḥ; papa-yonayaḥ; striyaḥ; sudras tatha vaisyaḥ; [Bg. 9.32]. He does not make any... And so far my institute is concerned, we do not make such thing. Everyone should be given chance. But we have restriction that we should mix with women very cautiously. You should not have any illicit sex. These things are there.

Indian man: No, that is of course...

Prabhupada: But why a woman should be refused? This is not authentic. Why Rupa Gosvami should refuse her? They were bhiksu, madhukari. So when one goes for bhiksa, so how he can check that he will not see any woman? How it is possible? He has to go to the householder, "Mataji, a capaṭi lijiye."(?) Or he'll stand. Generally woman comes to give capaṭi. So how it is possible to restrict the eyes? That is, he does not...I think I cannot accept this, that Rupa Gosvami refused. Why he should refuse? Vaisnava is kind. But we must mix with women cautiously. Caitanya Mahaprabhu says yare dekha tare kaha krsna-upadesa [Cc. Madhya 7.128]. He never says, "Only to the men."

Indian man: But this body designations are not necessary in this preaching.

Prabhupada: As far one who is panḍita, in the position of Rupa Gosvami, for him, panḍitaḥ; sama-darsinaḥ; [Bg. 5.18].

Indian man: He'll see woman and man equal.

Prabhupada: There is no difference. And if he makes such distinction, then how he's panḍita? Then he's not panḍita. But it is etiquette, mata svasa duhita va. One should not very closely sit down even with mother, sister, and daughter. That restriction is there. But that does not mean that one should not see even a woman. So we are following that principle. Never mind, man or woman, she can offer her respect, but not very near. That restriction must be there. [break] We have support from very high circle. Scholar, priest, even father, mother, parent. Many old gentlemen come to congratulate me, "Swamiji, it is our great fortune that you have come to this country." In Los Angeles they have been very nice. Many parents used to come. (Hindi)

Indian man: Now Giriraja is going about with this school work.

Prabhupada: Yes. But the building is not yet sanctioned. You have seen inside temple?

Indian man: Yes. I come here once a week. [break]

Prabhupada: This is... Of course, I gave him the idea. But Saurab's design. He's Dutch. He's Dutch boy. The Vrndavana is also his.

Indian man: How is the Kuruksetra going?

Prabhupada: Kuruksetra, the government has not yet decided to give us land.

Indian man: The Hyderabad Gurukula?

Prabhupada: Hyderabad land we have got.

Indian man: Gurukula.

Prabhupada: It is very nice place, Hyderabad. I was going (indistinct). I liked it very much.

Indian man: Prabhupada, there is a place here, near (indistinct). That's about sixty, eighty miles from here. (indistinct) mentioned to you before. [break]

Prabhupada: That's what they're eating, that lamb's flesh.

Indian man: Now Prabhupada, even Jains eat meat.

Prabhupada: Who cares for them? In Gujarat they are eating fish?

Indian man: No. Eggs. They have started eating two lakhs of eggs in Ahmedabad.

Indian man: Ahmedabad is a very big meat-eating center.

Prabhupada: In Surat I was guest of that Jariwala. So on the morning walk I went to the riverside. So I saw so many fisherwoman carrying the big basket. So I asked the driver, he was Mohammedan, "Why these fisherwomen here?" He said, "Nowadays, all Gujaratis, they're eating fish."

Indian man: I tell you Prabhupada... Very, very, old... Before 1937, in Bhavnagar, Saurastra, we had our office in '37, '35 we had. I was in Karachi. We sent one manager from Peshawar, twenty-year man. So he used to eat meat and fish and everything and a young man he was...

Prabhupada: Punjabi.

Indian man: Hindu brahmana. But there the brahmanas also eat meat. Kashmiri brahmanas eat meat. So he was about 25, 24 years old at that time. When he reached Bhavnagar, he could not get a house. There were so many "To Let's" but wherever he went he was told no. So after all he got fed up, he inquired what is the reason. He said "You are a non-Katyawari, non-Saurastri. You are from the frontier, so you must be eating meat and eggs. So we'll not give you our house." So ultimately, one of his business friends, because he was the manager of the office after a month or so, one of the business friends he said, "All right, I'll get you a house if you give a written undertaking that you'll not eat meat." So he said, "Okay, thank you. I'll write undertaking that I'll not eat meat." One year passed. But when he used to come back from office, in front of a particular shop he used to see... In those days even a crowd of twenty persons in front of a shop was a big thing. So he would see ten, fifteen people and eat what is stop in a shop and take a small tiffin box, drop off a small tiffin box and walk away. So one day he also stopped there and he asked the shopwala for this tiffin box. "What you are giving in there?" "That," he said, "is not for you." "What is this?" He said "It's not for you. You'll not get it." Then he visited that fellow five, six times, then ultimately, that man said, "Look here, why you want to know all about that? It's not meant for you, and you'll not be able to use it." He said, "What is, can you tell me." Then he brought it, gave it to him, he opened it. It was minced meat. "But it's meat." How do you know it is meat?" He said, "I have been living in Punjab for all of my life. I know what is meat." He said, "Now don't shout. Go away from here. They are my customers." "They are your customers? They are the very people who have been refusing me a house!" The same people.

Prabhupada: Meat-eating is now world wide. I have seen now in the airplane one Marwari gentlemen, he was eating the intestines of the (indistinct).

Indian man: Not one. In our relationships, not one. They are competing with each other.

Indian man (2): What is the motivation?

Prabhupada: They have learned it.

Indian man: No, no. Fashion. Now one thing is they can hold off the rich people in India. That is not now, but about, put it back to 1944-45, during the war time. British time. That hold has become stronger. If we do not eat West, particularly America, then we are called "uncivilized." So to prove that I am civilized, there are three things. I must speak English, my children must go to missionary or convent schools, we must adopt Western customs and etiquette, and we must adopt their eating habits. Now if I'm not accepted in the American society... Even the British is now called uncivilized comparatively. If I'm not accepted by the Americans, that, "Yes, I know the standards and I live like them or even better than them," then I am supposed to be common. This is the conception of civilization amongst the Marwaris and the Gujaratis of the richer class. Previously it used to be, as they say of ancient India, that if one did not speak Sanskrit he was supposed to be uncivilized. So now that has come out...

Prabhupada: In our childhood, my father's generation, in Calcutta, if a gentleman does not keep a prostitute extra, he is not a respectable man.

Indian man: That was in Delhi? That was during the Mogul time in Delhi? Even after the Mogul time? Not only keeping. In Delhi one of my very, my father's very close friend, Lala Sriram from Delhi...

Prabhupada: Oh, Sriram is a famous man.

Indian man: No, not that millionaire. Another Sriram. And they were from Delhi. Just I'm talking only about 1939-40. In Karachi he came. He said every boy, before marriage, his marriage, he was supposed to go and take training from a prostitute for a month or so.

Prabhupada: Accha.

Indian man: If a boy was not trained there he could not find a good wife.

Prabhupada: Accha.

Indian man: That was a part of his qualification to get a good wife.

Prabhupada: Now how is this (indistinct) because the bride and bridegroom is selected by the parents.

Indian man: Yes, the parents would not select that boy.

Prabhupada: Oh.

Indian man: Because parents, as they inquire today, how much you are educated, that was one of the qualifications.

Prabhupada: So what is the purport?

Indian man: (laughs) I don't know. But to learn all these etiquettes of methods when you are in a sabha (indistinct) these cabarets and all the... That type of cabaret, how you should behave?

Gopala Krsna: We will leave at 7:25, Srila Prabhupada.

Prabhupada: Hm. What is the time?

Gopala Krsna: Fifteen, twenty minutes.

Prabhupada: What will be about the light?

Gopala Krsna: They are fixing it up now. I don't know why it goes out. I've told the construction department to look into it, to fix it. I don't know why it goes out again.

Prabhupada: In our area only?

Gopala Krsna: Just here, the top floor of this building. Just your apartment and the next apartment.

Prabhupada: Other buildings, they are...

Gopala Krsna: Yes, yes. Even our buildings other side have it. Just this one.

Indian man: Some emergency light needs to be connected here, so automatically the light goes out (indistinct).

Prabhupada: In Vrndavana they have got that generator.

Indian man: That is very good but (indistinct).

Gopala Krsna: We don't need it in Bombay because in Bombay it never goes off. I think it's going off because something is wrong with the wiring in this apartment.

Prabhupada: Here.

Gopala Krsna: Otherwise, there's no reason. On our side it doesn't go out at all.

Prabhupada: In Vrndavana it takes only two minutes to change. Similarly, we have in Mayapura also.

Indian man: So can I know the reason why you are restraining the use of gobar gas now. I could not understand actual technical difficulty. Is there any difficulty?

Prabhupada: No, we can utilize the gobar in different way.

Indian man: No, but gobar gas is not good, that's why...

Prabhupada: No, no, not good. But we have to arrange for this plant, generate gas. So why not direct?

Indian man: No, but the fuel is achieved, but the fertilizer is lost. Gobar, there are two elements. One is a methane gas and one is fertilizer. If you burn it you are burning the fertilizer which is very, very important, and very, very useful against the fuel that we get.

Prabhupada: No, that ash is very good.

Indian man: No ash is not the full fertilizer. It is only partial. 10% of the fertilizer becomes ash. The organic matter is burned with great loss to the society and the earth.

Prabhupada: But in our Mayapura, that plant, we spent so much, it has not become successful.

Indian man: No that is mechanical fault. Just like electricity now it has failed. Now sir, we should not stop utilizing electricity.

Prabhupada: No, any machine, that defect will be there.

Indian man: But that we have been working for twenty years in Ahmedabad. Everybody is very happy there, and they're actually making money out of it. The fertilizer that is there is about four times what is normally achieved. So good maintenance are required for any...

Prabhupada: (sneezes loud) I have no objection, but I've got experience. In Mayapura it is failure.

Indian man (2): Sometimes we get a defective machine. I purchased one for my girl's house. I've got a number of about 30. But one was rejected but...

Indian man: Either defective machine or defective maintenance.

Prabhupada: Maybe. But the difficulty is there. (sneezes) (pause)

Indian man: (Hindi)

Prabhupada: (Hindi) ...31st to go for Bhuvanesvara. Then come to Kumbha-mela.

Gopala Krsna: Or you can stay here and go to Kumbha-mela straight?

Prabhupada: That can be also done. I am waiting for one letter from Gaura-Govinda Swami.

Gopala Krsna: Then from Kumbha-mela you can go to Orissa, from Orissa to Mayapura. Then you have go to Kodekana.

Prabhupada: Kodekana, have you been ever? I have to inquire whether it is zigzag.

Indian man: Oh, Kodekana. That is very famous place.

Gopala Krsna: Is it zigzag or is it straight?

Indian man: No, zigzag. In the mountain side.

Gopala Krsna: No that is not good.

Prabhupada: OK, then it is...

Indian man: Kodekana is outside (indistinct).

Gopala Krsna: I mean, is there a train station or airplane, airport?

Indian man: Railway may be going, but even that will be zigzag.

Prabhupada: Simla, er, Darjeeling is not so zigzag but big, big loops (?).

Indian man: Loops are big. Roads are very difficult. Kodekana there is no train. In Ootacamund there is a train.

Gopala Krsna: Kodekana there is no train at all?

Prabhupada: No, there is train from Madras.

Indian man: Kodekana you'll have to change and then go by motor car.

Prabhupada: Oh.

Indian man: That inquire.

Gopala Krsna: I can inquire.

Indian man: When you come in Ootacamund there is a direct train. (Prabhupada rings bell)

Gopala Krsna: You want Jagadisa or Hari-sauri?

Prabhupada: Anyone. He can take this.

Gopala Krsna: (indistinct)

Prabhupada: I like that place Hyderabad.

Indian man: Hyderabad.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Indian man: The temple in the city is also very good.

Prabhupada: Oh, you have seen it?

Indian man: Oh, yes.

Prabhupada: Karttikeya you've seen?

Karttikeya: I have seen one, before the opening. I haven't gone after the opening.

Prabhupada: It is very nice. That is the nicest temple in Hyderabad.

Gopala Krsna: Yes, thousands of people come every day.

Indian man: It's right in the center. (end)