Morning Walk
Bombay
25 Dec

Prabhupada: You have to be free from mind also.

Guest (1) (Indian man): Free from mind?

Prabhupada: Yes, mind.

Guest (1): Very difficult to control mind.

Prabhupada: But if you want freedom, you have to do that.

Guest (1): Yes, that's true. There is no other alternative.

Guest (2) (Indian man): Freedom from mind, how would you explain it or how would you detail it? [break]

Prabhupada: ...mind means polluted mind. We are part and parcel of God. Mamaivamso jiva-bhutaḥ; [Bg. 15.7]. Jiva is as pure as God and on account of this mind, he is suffering in this material world. You can see. You can see. Here is a living being, this tree. It is also a living being, but he's standing before me for fifty years or more than that. He cannot move an inch, and we are moving. So why this condition? He is also living being; I am also living being. I have got little freedom to move; he hasn't got. Why this difference of position? Due to the mind. So here in this material world there are 8,400,000 different forms of life. They're all due to the mental concoction. So if we want our original life as good as God, at least in quality, that is freedom of mind. And then we cease to become one of the covered living beings within this material world.

Guest (1): Sir, I read in one of your lectures at London, before the British office (indistinct), and you gave the example of Mahatma Gandhi and Kennedy. In particular, Mahatma Gandhi you said that four types of (sic:) defaulted mind and this condition and those condition.

Prabhupada: Yes. Yes. Every living being is polluted by four kinds of deficiencies. A conditioned soul commits mistake. He takes something for something. And because he has no perfect knowledge, he wants to become leader. That is cheating.

Guest (1): Right. You have said that in that speech.

Prabhupada: Yes. And, above all, his senses are imperfect. Therefore, from such persons with deficiency, how you can get real knowledge? That is not possible. We have to approach a person who has no deficiency. Then we shall get real knowledge. So Krsna and His representative are persons without any deficiencies. So we have to take knowledge from Krsna or one who represents Krsna. Otherwise we'll be cheated, because he has got deficiencies.

Guest (1): But that you have said, that one of his colleague or assistant told to Gandhi that "There is danger, and you shouldn't go to the meeting," and in spite of that...

Prabhupada: No, no, I did not say. I wrote one letter to Gandhi that, "Mahatmaji, you have got some respectability throughout the whole world. Now you struggled for so-called svaraja. Now you have got it. Better retire from this life and preach Bhagavad-gita."

Guest (1): I think he listened to your advice because before he was murdered, on that day...

Prabhupada: Yes. "Otherwise you'll meet the fate of Mussolini."

Guest (2): And what was his reply?

Prabhupada: He did not reply.

Guest (1): He drafted that statement that Congress should be dissolved. It should be.

Prabhupada: No, no, no. He was implicated. This is maya, that although he got svaraja, he was not free. He was full of anxiety, and he he was not at all... (aside:) Ayi. Jaya. So long one is absorbed in material thoughts, he'll be full of anxieties.

Guest (1): That's true. He was full of anxieties.

Prabhupada: Yes. That means he could not get any spiritual idea. Asad grahat. Material existence means accepting something which will not exist, asat. Asato ma sad gamaya. The Vedic instruction is: "Do not remain in this material world, and make your progress..." Asato ma sad gamaya. But people are so accustomed to materialistic way of life that they are reluctant. That is maya, very strong. Daivi hy esa gunamayi mama maya duratyaya [Bg. 7.14]. It is very, very difficult. Maya tries to punish every conditioned soul, and as soon as there is some attempt to get out of the clutches of maya, she becomes still strong: "Where you shall go my dear son? You remain with me." Yaḥ; devi sarva-bhutesu nidra-rupina sam...(?) In the Canḍi, yaḥ; devi, he is situated, keeping the conditioned souls in dream. He is simply dreaming, "I'll be happy in this way; I'll be happy in that way." And that is mental concoction. He'll never be happy. Krsna said moghasa mogha-karmano mogha-jñana vicetasaḥ;, asurim bhavam asri... [Bg. 9.12]. Because he has not recognized the Supreme Personality of Godhead, all his hopes and endeavors will be baffled. So even a person like Mahatma Gandhi, he became baffled.

Guest (1): Yes, that's right. He admitted also.

Prabhupada: And what to speak of others. His ambition was Hindu-Muslim unity. So that was banned.

Guest (1): Total failure.

Prabhupada: His ambition was nonviolent—he was killed by violence. So what to speak of others? A person so dedicated, so nice, but he followed the wrong path. Recently I had been to his Sevasram in Wardha. So there was no Krsna worship and he said that he is very fond of Bhagavad-gita. But he understood Bhagavad-gita in his own way.

Guest (1): (laughing) In a different way, I would say.

Prabhupada: And in the Bhagavad-gita it is said, as soon as you try to understand Bhagavad-gita in your own way, it is finished. It is finished. Nasṭa. Yogo nasṭaḥ; parantapa. So nasṭa cheese, what is nasṭa, what is the use of...?

Guest (1): It should be destroyed. No use to it.

Prabhupada: Suppose if I supply you something which is spoiled, then what benefit you will derive? Therefore no benefit is derived by the people in general either from Gandhi or Vinoba Bhave or Tilak because it was nasṭa.

Guest (1): Sir, how do you compare it with... This Hare Krsna movement...

Prabhupada: Hare Krsna movement is...

Guest (1): ...for the common man, for the downtrodden, for the poor...

Prabhupada: Yes, they can chant Hare Krsna, and they will understand.

Guest (1): That should be some motivation...

Prabhupada: Just like if you are hungry, if you get some real food, you'll understand. Example is these American, European boys. They are simply chanting Hare Krsna, and you see how they are advanced.

Guest (1): How come that in this country they...?

Prabhupada: Immediately come. But you won't take. That is your fault. You have manufactured your own way of life. Otherwise, Hare Krsna is India's gift.

Guest (1): It's not much.

Prabhupada: Yes. But you won't take it. He'll speak so many nonsense; he'll never speak Hare Krsna. That is misfortune.

Guest (2): What are the aims of the Indian society. Although it's given birth to so much, it still doesn't take it as success. What is the weakness in the Indian society that they don't...

Prabhupada: Because they have got bad leaders, the rascal leaders. Just like see. Mahatma Gandhi, he misled. But he did not know how to lead. And what to speak of others. They do not know. I saw this Vinoba Bhave, he does not know anything. He has become leader. I saw in his asrama about one dozen women, they are reciting Bhagavad-gita. That's all. And for the last forty years he's working on Bhagavad-gita, and the result is some forty women is reciting Bhagavad-gita. So this is the result. So what they will do? They do not know how to lead. And he has written one book on Bhagavad-gita, but he has become a great leader. And that is also not according to Bhagavad-gita. This is going on. This is going on.

Guest (1): Unfortunately, he has... There are not very silent...

Prabhupada: Take for example satyagraha. Satyagraha... What is the satyagraha? That is the child's play. Just like a child, he wants something. You are not giving him. He'll cry. He'll force you. So is there any sastric injunction? Now these things have become popular. Real thing rejected, and some false thing presented by childish attempt, that is accepted.

Guest (1): But sir, would you not agree that in order to appeal to the masses or to make masses into any movement...

Prabhupada: No, it is... You see... It is not... If you want to become an educated man or if you want to give first-class education, it is not for the mass. It is for the leader. Yad yad acarati sresṭhas tat tad evetaro janaḥ; [Bg. 3.21]. If the leaders are educated, then others will follow. But if the leaders are not educated, what the others will do? That is the difficulty. And the so-called leaders, without being educated, they become leader.

Guest (1): That's why all this trouble.

Prabhupada: Yes. They manufacture some idea.

Guest (1): Which has nothing to do with the...

Prabhupada: Nothing to do... It is spoiled. If you manufacture idea, because you are imperfect... How you can manufacture ideas? Four deficiencies are there, so if you manufacture with deficiency of your own person, then what will be the knowledge?

Guest (1): The result will also be deficiency.

Prabhupada: That is the difficulty. Our knowledge... Yad yad acarati sresṭhaḥ;. So who can be more sresṭha than Krsna? Than Vyasadeva, Narada, the acaryas? But they will not follow. They will manufacture some idea. That is the difficulty in India at the present moment. Some upstart leaders, they have misled them. That is the difficulty. And we are poor fellows. If we say the right thing, they'll not take it.

Guest (1): Not only take it but they'll ridicule and say that something has gone wrong somewhere.

Prabhupada: They'll not take it: "No! What is this Swamiji...? Mahatma Gandhi says this and this... Tilak says this, this, that." And if we say that they are wrong, then people will criticize, "Oh, he has become more than..." This is the difficulty. We don't say anything except what is said by the great personalities that are Krsna conscious. So I am not saying anything of my own manufacture. I am simply saying what Krsna has said. But they will reject that. I say that Krsna says that you become a Krsna's devotee. It is very simple for me. And they will say, "Huh! What is this nonsense Krsna? We have seen this Krsna. Now we have got this leader." This is the problem. Upadeso hi murkhanam prakopaya na santaye. (Hindi)

Guest (2): They reject it because they find it difficult to...

Prabhupada: No, it is not at all difficulty. What is the difficulty?

Guest (2): So then why do they reject it?

Prabhupada: If I say that "Chant Hare Krsna," what is the difficulty? But he thinks that "This is insignificant." He thinks like that. What I am teaching these people?

Guest (1): Very simple thing.

Prabhupada: Very simple thing, "Chant Hare Krsna." I have not given them any bribe. I have not shown them any magic of gold manufacturing. From the very beginning I said, "You chant Hare Krsna." But that is becoming fruitful.

Guest (1): That gives them peace of mind, because their mind gets attuned to something that is good.

Prabhupada: But that they will not take.

Guest (2): That they will not take for what reason?

Prabhupada: Reason is: "This is cheap. The swami is giving something cheap." Nowadays it has become a fashion, "Meditation." What nonsense meditation he will do?" This is going on. He cannot take cheap thing.

Guest (1): Cheap thing may be the right thing, the true thing, but "Because it's cheap, (laughing) so we..., not to be bothered."

Prabhupada: In Europe, America, the Indian students, they say, "Oh, we have seen all this Hare Krsna. We now want technology."

Guest (1): Sir, I got into conversation this young man in Colombo for the simple reason that I have got five sons, and those sons are trying to be Westernized or Americanized to the extent that I couldn't believe that my own children would go to this extent. So I told Giriraja when he came to see me and introduced my children to them, and it has now little impact. Because now that...

Prabhupada: (aside:) Don't sit down there. Don't sit down there. (Hindi) No, sitting on the...

Guest (1): You move it.

Prabhupada: She is the daughter of jñani.

Guest (3) (Indian man): They have come with me.

Prabhupada: So why not ask him. Hare Krsna.

Guest (1): Now they have, after seeing these young men, they have started thinking that "Why these young men (laughing) from America are chanting Hare Krsna and why we are not doing?" I said, "You just think it over."

Prabhupada: (Hindi) No, America... The purpose of going to America for... This was one of the cause, that "When I bring Americans here, these rascals will take some lesson."

Guest (1): I think you are absolutely right. (laughing) Psychologically, somehow or other, anything that is...

Prabhupada: And long, long ago, in the beginning, one friend wrote. I replied in that letter, that "You have finished your cows. You are importing powdered milk. Now you have to import brahmanas also from America. (laughter)

Guest (1): True, absolutely true.

Prabhupada: Now, you see that we are establishing so many temples. They are being maintained by imported American brahmanas. You cannot get.

Guest (1): Same thing in Aurobindo. I went to Pondicherry also this...

Prabhupada: You cannot get here now brahmanas. They have learned how to eat meat, how to drink, how to have illicit sex. They are finished.

Guest (1): No more brahmanas. You are right. That's tragedy. That's a fact.

Prabhupada: (Hindi)

Guest (2): Some of them must be non-greedy, not greedy, eh?

Prabhupada: There are many good men. It is not that simply brahmanas have gone to hell, but everyone has gone.

Guest (1): (indistinct) has failed.

Prabhupada: Kalau sudra-sambhavaḥ;. (Hindi) Samo damas titiksa arjavam, jñanam vijñanam astikyam brahma-karma... [Bg. 18.42]. (Hindi) Nobody's... (Hindi)

Guest (1): No, the other day I was with Natalia in Japan, and he also said the same thing, that we have no training for the leaders. And because there is no proper leadership, everything comes to a zero. You have to train a man or a woman for a particular work. That is not being done in India.

Guest (2): British did it.

Guest (1): They made their servants quite all right.

Prabhupada: They wanted for graft, to manipulate their empire. They wanted some subordinate hands. They never wanted to give real education.

Guest (2): That's true.

Prabhupada: They wanted that the... That is cooperation. That is one of the Gandhi's understanding, that "These people are ruling over us by our cooperation. Therefore let us noncooperate and they'll fail. They'll not be able to rule."

Guest (1): Carry on their...

Prabhupada: But that program was also failure because India is so poor that there was no possible to noncooperate, because Gandhi's civil disobedience movement only 60,000 men joined, and we have 600,000,000. So what is the percentage?

Guest (1): Not even one percent.

Prabhupada: And that also, when they came back from the jail life, they decided not to do it again. Therefore Gandhi did not recommend mass civil disobedience next time. He recommended individual... [break] ...but (indistinct) 19l7, and we got svaraja in 1947. So it was not due to civil disobedience or noncooperation. It was due to Subash Bose's INA. He thought that when he organized soldiers, and...

Guest (1): Put them on the battlefield, fought them, defeated them...

Prabhupada: Yes. And when the Britishers found, "Now the soldiers are non-cooperating. There is no hope of ruling," they left.

Guest (1): Yes. That is the truth.

Prabhupada: Yes. And Subash Bose was always against this nonviolent means. That is the difference of opinion with Gandhi. So he wanted to capture the whole power, and he captured, but Gandhi became so angry upon him that he did not attend the Congress when Subash Bose was elected President. Then other lieutenants-Subash Bose also was Gandhi's student—so when others planned, requested that "Gandhiji is not happy. You better resign." So he resigned, and tactfully he went out of India. He knew that "So long Gandhi is there, my policy... I'll not be able because there will be..."

Guest (1): Always opposition.

Prabhupada: "...opposition." Therefore he went out and organized the INA, and that was successful. It is not Gandhi's noncooperation movement.

Guest (1): That's true. Now in the British official records which they are publishing their secret papers of twenty-five years, that knowledge is very clearly that it was this armed fight of Indian National Army which convinced the British that they could not rule India with the Indian soldiers.

Prabhupada: Yes. That is real noncooperation. (laughter) What this public noncooperation will do. They are simply clerks. Some of them may be high-court judges, but no responsible post was given.

Guest (1): And all these atrocities were committed by Indians upon Indians at the orders of the British.

Prabhupada: All the big, big secretaries, under-secretaries, governors... There was no minister, all European, only some clerks. So what is the use of clerks' noncooperation? They didn't care. And in order to pat Gandhi, the governor sometimes used to invite him. "Sir, you are so powerful. Kindly stop this movement." And Gandhi became puffed-up that the Britishers are very afraid of him. "No! I shall do." And Subash Bose insisting, "In this way, they'll never go by this nonviolent."

Guest (1): Human nature as it is, you can't... Unless there is some sort of a compulsion, whether in spiritual...

Prabhupada: And in politics, might is right.

Guest (1): Of course. Survival of the fittest.

Prabhupada: Yes. In politics you cannot become...

Guest (1): A sadhu. It is absurd. (laughing)

Prabhupada: That is absurd.

Guest (1): Two contradictory terms.

Prabhupada: Therefore Arjuna was ridiculed. "What is this nonsense?" Kutas tva kasmalam idam: "You have come to fight. You are talking nonsense, that 'I will not fight.' " Krsna did not approve.

Guest (1): He told... He defined "What is your dharma and what is niskama akarma." So it's very difficult to define dharma, but once it is defined, there should be no difficulty.

Prabhupada: No, dharma is there. Krsna says, sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja [Bg. 18.66]. That is dharma. And everything is cheating. That... Because we are teaching that, that only dharma is to become Krsna conscious, therefore we are not very much liked. They are of opinion, "Why Krsna is God? I have got this God. I have got this, so many incarnations." This is...

Guest (2): Why do you say we are not very much liked? The movement is spreading.

Prabhupada: Because we are fools.

Guest (2): But the movement is spreading, I am saying. I Hare Krsna movement is spreading.

Prabhupada: Movement will spread, undoubtedly, because it is genuine.

Guest (2): It is spreading because we are liked.

Guest (1): No, sir, there you are also correct. I would say this, that these American boys and young girls who have come here, because this, our mind is conditioned into inferiority complex or slave-minded person, everything which is adopted there must be...

Prabhupada: No, we are also slaves, but we are slave of the right person.

Guest (1): Yes, of the Supreme.

Prabhupada: That is the difference. And they are slaves of their senses. That is the difference. We are not master. We are also slaves. But we are slaves of the person who is perfect, and they are slaves of their senses.

Guest (2): The spread of the Hare Krsna movement in Bombay in the last three, four years has been... I don't know, you may not be satisfied, but I think it's quite good.

Prabhupada: No, it will be good. If people take to it little seriously, it will be good. Therefore we are spending so much money, that "You come, you all respectable and educated people. Come, try to understand and spread it for the benefit of your country."

Guest (1): But sir, your conclusion here is correct in the sense that they say that "Swami only says you chant Hare Krsna, and by chanting Hare Krsna what could be done?"

Prabhupada: No, no, but they have no eyes to see how it is being done all over the world. They do not consider it, what...

Guest (1): How it's done, why it's done, what is the result. (Hindi)

Prabhupada: Film-wala...? What is his name?

Giriraja: Devanand?

Prabhupada: Yes. He purposefully criticized this movement by Hare Krsna film.

Guest (1): Yes, yes, I have seen that film.

Prabhupada: We are going on. He is finished. His film is finished, but we are going on. But he tried purposefully that "This is a hippie movement."

Guest (1): Yes, "Hippie movement, bhang, gañja, and all sex and perversion of all sorts."

Guest (2): This cloud on the movement in America, is that vanishing?

Prabhupada: It will vanish.

Guest (2): It will. It's bound to.

Prabhupada: Although they are making some strong movement against this.

Guest (2): But what is the position now? Is it dying out or increasing?

Prabhupada: No, no. We are selling more books.

Guest (2): No, is the cloud dying out? I'm not saying the movement is dying out. The movement cannot.

Prabhupada: We are... Now how much worth of books we have sold in one week?

Hari-sauri: Forty-three lakhs.

Prabhupada: Forty-three lakhs worth of books we have sold in one week.

Guest (1): Giriraja said that's the main source of income for this movement, as a matter of fact.

Prabhupada: Yes we are getting ten lakhs of rupees every month from that book department.

Guest (1): Yes, that's the main source. Because I inquired with him that whether it is not something to do with CIA, wherefrom your money comes?

Prabhupada: Just see how foolish. The CIA, American CIA, they will pay us, (laughter) and these boys, CIA boys, will come and dance with me. (laughter) Just understand how these Indians have become rascals. They have no common sense.

Guest (1): Perverts I would say. Perverts.

Prabhupada: And that is being supported, "Oh, they are CIA."

Guest (1): So I talked at great length with Giriraja, and I cross-examined him thoroughly with all these Indians who would be thinking about this Hare Krsna because when I said that I have become a life member of yours, then he also might have been bit surprised, but mainly I wanted to impress upon my children—they're young boys—that "It's all right. You also go there."

Prabhupada: Once spoiled, it is very difficult.

Guest (1): Very difficult.

Prabhupada: To reform.

Guest (1): Then minds are spoiled; that is true. Their minds are, all Indian youth completely.

Prabhupada: But you have spoiled them. You have given this impression that "This 'religion, religion, religion' has spoiled our country. Now throw it, all these books, in the water." The leaders say that. "Take to technology." They come to me. They challenge, "Swamiji, what this Hare Krsna movement will do? Now we require technology." This is ignorance.

Guest (2): If Gita is properly explained to a Westernized Indian, it gets accepted sooner than the difficult...

Prabhupada: Yes.

Guest (2): Indian Indian.

Prabhupada: Yes. [break]

Guest (1): ...brahmanas.

Guest (2): No, those are Westernized Indians.

Guest (1): Say, brahmanas from abroad...

Prabhupada: What is the time now?

Guest (1): Yes, sir, it's your time.

Hari-sauri: Quarter to seven. Almost.

Guest (1): Impact from these young boys and girls is good, very good, I should say. These young boys and girls who are working here by their own...

Prabhupada: Their one qualification is that they are not poverty stricken. And our boys, they are poverty stricken. So daridra-dosa guna-rasi-nasi.(?) Even though are educated, on account of poverty they sacrificed everything their culture, their knowledge. Daridra-dosa guna-rasi-nasi.

Guest (1): Yes, hunger is the cause of all. (Sanskrit)

Prabhupada: I chastise them only because they don't care for money. (laughter)

Guest (1): They are extreme. It is contradiction...

Prabhupada: And because they are fortunate, wherever they go, they get money.

Guest (1): That is law of nature. All the big rivers go to the sea where water is not wanted.

Prabhupada: I have seen them. They squander so much money, and I chastise them that "You are so loose, you are so rascal and..." But still, whatever money I have got, it is due to them.

Guest (1): That's true, that's true. (laughter) That's true. That's true.

Prabhupada: Otherwise... (laughing)

Guest (1): Really, it is true. [break]

Prabhupada: I have tried convinced them. Janmaisvarya-sruta-sriḥ; [SB 1.8.26], to become moneyed, that also requires background. Purva-janmarjitam dhanam. So they are born in rich country; that is due to their past pious deeds. Yes. There is no doubt. Yes. Now I request them that "You have got everything. You take to Krsna consciousness. Then you are perfect."

Guest (1): We have degraded ourself to such an extent...

Prabhupada: No, we can rise immediately.

Guest (1): Yes yes, but foundation stone is there. City is there...

Prabhupada: Foundation or no foundation, but we'll not agree. That is the difficulty. We'll not agree.

Guest (1): It's a difficult job, but it has to be done because I...

Prabhupada: Krsna consciousness is so nice. Krsna says,

sarva-dharman parityajya
mam ekam saranam vraja
aham tvam sarva-papebhyo
moksayisyami ma sucaḥ;
[Bg. 18.66]

Our difficulties are due to our sinful activities. So Krsna assures, "I will excuse you from the resultant action of all sinful activities. You surrender to me." But I will not do that. What Krsna will do? He says, He assures, but nobody will do that. I say to my tenants here, that "You become Krsna conscious. You won't have to pay rent." (laughter) Because the whole rent... I am getting two-thousand, 2,500. That is my one day's expenditure.

Guest (1): Eventually they will come around, but it will take time.

Prabhupada: No, the leaders are not... Because their position will be finished, the so-called leaders. They want to keep in ignorance the mass of people so their foolish leadership may go on continually. That is everywhere. [break] ...learn this philosophy and preach. That is the best service.

Guest (2): My son who lives in America is very Westernized, and as he picked up Gita, and he tried to understand it. Now he now is so much a follower of Gita that every single letter he quotes Gita to anyone whom he writes.

Prabhupada: Which Gita he has read?

Guest (2): He's very convinced about it.

Prabhupada: No no, which Gita he has read?

Guest (2): Your Gita.

Prabhupada: My Gita?

Guest (2): Your Gita and Cinmayananda's, two Gitas.

Prabhupada: Cinmayananda is atheist. Atheist. He does not believe in Krsna.

Guest (2): He has donated over three hundred books in that haṭha-yoga, that can...

Guest (1): Yes, in U.S.A., Santa Cruz.

Prabhupada: Yes, he took some lakhs of rupees from Birla for distributing the Gita. I know that.

Guest (2): He has also translated Gita.

Guest (1): Shh! Swamiji's saying is this, that Gita is interpreted by different people in different way. That is true. Understanding of Gita is a very big...

Prabhupada: He does not present Bhagavad-gita as it is. According to his own whims... But the original sloka is there.

Guest (1): But interpretation is his own.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Guest (1): Original sloka, of course, everybody would put. Then they interpret in their own way. I think, sir, most of us are accepted through this Hare Krsna movement, as you have rightly said.

Prabhupada: What is the public opinion?

Guest (1): Public opinion, people like us who have been abroad for, say, quarter of a century or so... I have been to the States. I almost go every year. And this is the right thing. This is the right thing. When I was child, about fifteen, I went to Japan, and all my life I am abroad. This is the right thing. This is simple. It's only a matter of conviction. If you have faith, then everything becomes quite all right. There is nothing much that is extraordinary that could not be done. It's a pure, simple, good life. Get up early in the morning.

Prabhupada: (aside:) They supply water regularly.

Devotee: Yes.

Guest (1): Here Indians don't get up early in the morning. All our forefathers did. The people, most of them would be snoring? No. [break]

Prabhupada: Two days I had been in Mahabaleshwar, and our host was sleeping. (laughter) So I asked them, "Let us go immediately, otherwise we'll be infected." (laughter) So I left that place.

Guest (1): A normal day of life...

Hari-sauri: Srila Prabhupada, it's five to seven. You can go down now. [break]

Hari-sauri: Will you be speaking this morning Srila Prabhupada?

Prabhupada: Hm? No. [break]

Guest (1): One question is almost complete, and they have become sort of influence of (Hindi) reception or whatever name you call it.

Guest (2): Why have you said Cinmayananda, atheist?

Prabhupada: There are so many statements. In his book there are so many statements. Does he recommend to worship Krsna?

Guest (1): Does he recommend to worship Sri Krsna?

Guest (2): I don't know. I have not read...

Prabhupada: So then why you are asking about him? (laughter)

Guest (2): No, my point is he is preaching religion...

Prabhupada: He is nonsense. You do not know about him, and you are asking about him. That is the pity. If you know about him, then speak.

Guest (2): No, I don't know enough about him.

Prabhupada: Then why you are recommending? Then why you are recommending?

Guest (2): But he's preaching religion.

Prabhupada: That means you don't know religion.

Guest (1): He is preaching Gita, that's true, but as Swamiji says, that is interpretation of his own. Original words are there. Everybody who speaks about Gita...

Prabhupada: Religion is to surrender to Krsna. But he does not recommend to surrender to Krsna. What does he know about Krsna? That is the difficulty. He does not know what is Krsna, what is religion, and he is preaching religion?

Guest (1): He's supposed to be one of the biggest propagator of Gita. He had Gitara jñana yajña in Bombay. There were thousands of people there.

Prabhupada: False, everything false. Misled. He does not recognize Krsna, he does not recognize religion, and he is religious.

Guest (1): One of the best religious leaders. That's what people think.

Prabhupada: No, no, that may be, falsely representation, but where he is recommending that "You surrender to Krsna and worship Him"? Has he done that? That means misleading. He can become a very good orator, and he can get claps, but what is the benefit? He's a good orator, there is no doubt about it. But Krsna does not say that "You become a orator and cheat others." He does not say. He says, "Surrender unto Me." So if actually one is preaching, he should teach the audience that "Surrender to Krsna." And that is reading of Bhagavad-gita. If I take Bhagavad-gita and speak something of my opinion, that means I am cheating. I am taking advantage of Bhagavad-gita, and I am impressing people with my nonsense ideas.

Guest (1): That's right.

Prabhupada: If you want to cheat others, you cheat in your own way. Why do you take Bhagavad-gita?

Guest (1): Don't take the protection of Bhagavad-gita. That is doubly wrong.

Prabhupada: That is great cheating, great cheating.

Guest (1): In the name of Bhagavad-gita...

Prabhupada: Yes.

Guest (1): ...one should not...

Prabhupada: That is the difficulty. Everyone is doing that.

Guest (1): Yes. We have many propagations of Gita in this country.

Prabhupada: He is preaching his own ideas and taking Bhagavad-gita.

Guest (1): Under the umbrella of Bhagavad-gita he does it.

Prabhupada: Smoking gañja with a friend's hand because there is smell, so the friend's hand will smell. (Hindi) (laughter) This is going on. (Hindi)

Guest (1): There will be immediate protest the moment... This film has got the connotation that Hare Krsna means... Now, these boys, by their own conduct and by their own hard work, whosoever has come into contact with them have realized that this is genuine and actually...

Prabhupada: No, you see, something cheating which is going on for long time, to stop it, it will take some time.

Guest (1): Yes. Unless and until the people who are well-to-do...

Prabhupada: We have got one little test. You can also use that. Krsna says,

na mam duskrtino muḍhaḥ;
prapadyante naradhamaḥ;
mayayapahrta-jñana
asuram bhavam asritaḥ;
[Bg. 7.15]

So you make one test, whether he has surrendered to Krsna. If he has not done, then he is in these four categories. What are they? Duskrtina, great sinful; muḍha, rascal; naradhama, lowest of the mankind. And if you say, "Oh, these are so big, big learned scholar," now mayayapahrta-jñana. Why? Asuram bhavam, asura. Asura's business is to deny Krsna and to kill Krsna. So all these people, they are reading Bhagavad-gita, and they are trying to kill Krsna. (devotees chanting) Is it not a fact? All these big big leaders, they'll speak on Bhagavad-gita, and they will never say that "Krsna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. You surrender to Him."

Guest (2): A friend of mine has surrendered to Cinmayananda. He says he is giving Bhagavad-gita four hours a day, it is, not for surrendering.

Prabhupada: But not for surrendering.

Guest (2): "He is using the Bhagavad-gita for our day to life." I said to him, "Why? Why can't you (indistinct)," but not surrendering as Swamiji has said.

Prabhupada: So they have made their own meaning. "Bhagavad-gita is not meant for surrender." Just see. (end)