Prabhupada: Society has lost this samskara process; therefore they remain in the animal platform. Janman jayate sudra samskarad bhaved dvijaḥ;. When a person is born even in human society, he remains a sudra. Sudra means almost like animal. Now he has to be reformed. That is called samskara. Then twice-born. The first-class twice-born is brahmana. Second-class twice-born is ksatriya. And third-class twice-born is the vaisya. And remaining, who cannot be reformed, they remain sudra. But there is cooperation between brahmana, ksatriya, vaisya, sudra, and the society makes progress simultaneously for everyone. That is human society. At the present moment mostly all of them remain sudras or less..., canḍalas. So how there can be any peace? It is not possible. There is no brahmana, no ksatriya, maybe a few vaisyas only. They are also half-reformed. And European culture, that is canḍala culture, yavana culture. There is no reformation, no brahmana, no ksatriya, no vaisyas, simply sudras and canḍalas mostly canḍalas. So Krsna consciousness movement is means for thoroughly overhauling the whole human society. (aside:) Hare Krsna. Thank you.

Brahmananda: They think it is freedom to be able to do whatever you feel, whatever you want.

Prabhupada: Rascal, where is your freedom? You are kicked out like football from one life to another. Where is your freedom, rascal? That they do not know. Therefore they are sudras. He is being kicked out like football from this pole to that pole, and still he is thinking, "I am free."

Brahmananda: They think reformation is a restriction.

Prabhupada: Yes. Reformation means restriction. Civilized means restriction. Aryan means restriction. That is civilized life. Unrestricted life means cats and dogs. Laws are meant for restriction, and they are meant for the human society, not for the cats and dogs. Why the legislative assembly is there? Why the cars are going right or left? It is meant for the civilized person, not for the cats and dogs. So civilization means restriction. A dog can have sex life on the street, but you cannot have. That is restriction because you are civilized. Civilized means restriction. The more you restrict, more you become civilized. Otherwise you remain animal.

Brahmananda: They say that these things are simply external.

Prabhupada: External, but you are animal. (laughs) You cannot understand. You see. Muḍha. "External." Why external? You violate the laws of nature; immediately you'll be punished. Why external? You infect some disease; you'll be immediately punished. Why external? It is the law of nature. You must have to follow; otherwise you'll be punished. You have got experience. If you touch fire... (aside:) Hare Krsna. Jaya. Jaya. Hare Krsna. If you touch fire, then it must burn. Why? Can you restrict the fire? Similarly, laws of nature is so strict, as soon as you violate... Laws of nature means God's nature.

Brahmananda: But by our technology we will change the laws of nature.

Prabhupada: That is your foolishness. What you have changed? Can you stop the fire burning your hand? Can you change this? Then why you talk foolish? These are foolish propositions. Nature will act. You may be so-called advanced in science. What is, your science will do? Will you not die? Will you not be diseased? Will you not become old? Then where is your advancement? You are strictly under the laws of nature. You cannot violate a single inch even. Daiv hy es gunamay mama may duratyaya. One sane man should consider that "Why I am strictly under the laws of nature? I am prime..." This question was put by Sanatana Gosvami, that "I am prime minister. People adore me as panḍita, very learned, but why I am put into these tribulations of the laws of nature? Why as prime minister and learned panḍita I cannot counteract it?" This is real question. Simply doggish mentality: "Yes, why shall I not do it? Why shall I?"—what will benefit you? That means you are not even sober. You are not human being. Human being should question "Why?" That is human being. Now by nature's law the river is full with water. If the nature does not supply, what you can do, your so-called science? Can you fill up with water? Then what is your science? Bogus. You cannot counteract the laws of nature. Hm? Can you? Brahmananda can. (laughter) He is strong enough. Kartikeya, you can do it?

Kartikeya (Indian Life Member): No, I can't do it.

Prabhupada: (laughs) Hare Krsna.

Kartikeya: We depend upon nature, so we can't counteract.

Prabhupada: It is not possible. It is all foolishness.

Kartikeya: We can go this small park.

Harikesa: It's a nice park?

Kartikeya: Yes.

Prabhupada: Now these rascal Westerners, there the women claiming equal rights. Change that the man will give birth to a child and not the woman.

Kartikeya: Equal right.

Prabhupada: Equal rights. Make agreement. "Once you beget; once I shall." (laughs) Make this contract. Then it is equal right. If the woman has to give birth of a child and she has to suffer all the pains thereof, then where is the equal right? Where is equal right? Nature has said, "You must suffer." The husband, the so-called husband, will give birth, er, will utilize you for sex satisfaction, and you will be pregnant, and he will go away and you will suffer the whole life to maintain the child, welfare—"Give me some money"—or this or that. Where is equal right? He is free. He has gone away. Huh? This is general experience in the Western countries.

Brahmananda: "Unwed mothers."

Prabhupada: Yes. And she cannot also check that "I shall not become mother." For sex appetite she will agree, and the man will go away and she will suffer. Is that civilization?

Brahmananda: Each year there are over one million abortions.

Prabhupada: Hm?

Brahmananda: In America there are over one million abortions.

Prabhupada: And they are advanced. They are proud of their being advanced. And they will not suffer? So we are trying to save the whole human society from rascaldom. That's all. This is Krsna consciousness. You see? This is nim tree. There is many nim trees. If they kindly accept and follow this movement they will be happy. Otherwise they are doomed. Let them suffer. What can I do? Thorough overhauling.

Kartikeya: Small pond they have made, fill up with water.

Brahmananda: Woman carrying a water jug.

Prabhupada: Oh. What the women answer about this pregnancy, that the man enjoys her and he goes away?

Brahmananda: They resent it.

Prabhupada: Then why do you accept? Why do you agree?

Brahmananda: Well, more and more now the women are not having sex with men anymore. They're having sex with other women.

Prabhupada: Then the population will stop? Will the population stop anymore? Then where is the proof? Just see how foolishness.

Harikesa: Sometimes they argue that only a small...

Prabhupada: This is argument. This is argument, that it is not fact. Let them... Women has agreed not to have sex with man. Then close all these maternity hospitals. That is the only happiness. Yan maithunadi-grhamedhi-sukha hi tuccham. The husband and wife, they, I mean to say, mix together only for this, especially in this age. Dampatye ratim eva hi. They get married only for sex pleasure, not for any other purpose. Dampatye ratim eva hi. Otherwise the purpose is husband and wife together, they will worship Laksmi-Narayana and become perfect. That is the description given in Pumsavana. You will get the statement there how the husband and wife is advised to worship Narayana, Laksm-Narayana. Therefore you will find in Hindu culture, every family, Laksm-Narayana worship, the husband and wife. Still there are, there is some glimpse of human civilization in India. So we can revive it. In Bhogilal's house there is no dog.

Kartikeya: No, no dog.

Prabhupada: That's nice. Otherwise, in modern civilization, such a nice house without a dog is incomplete.

Kartikeya: He doesn't believe in it.

Prabhupada: Is it not? Yes. There must be a ferocious dog. Then it is complete. I saw in one house in Bombay, Mr. Gupta. He has kept half a dozen big, big dogs. He's a very big man in the iron market.

Indian: Yes.

Prabhupada: You know him?

Kartikeya: No, we sometimes meet when we... Meetings are there.

Prabhupada: We shall go or turn?

Harikesa: Maybe we can go back to the park again.

Prabhupada: In the European parks they do not allow to sit down on the grass. Do you know that?

Kartikeya: Yes.

Prabhupada: In Paris I was trying to sit down on the grass floor. Immediately some policeman, "You cannot sit here." Bench. You can sit down on the bench. So here we think we can sit down little, eh?

Indian man (1): (Hindi)

Prabhupada: (Hindi) There? [break] Harer nama harer nama harer nama [Cc. Adi 17.21]. [break] ...tamarind tree?

Kartikeya: Acacia.

Prabhupada: Acacia. Gum.

Kartikeya: Gum. These are like nimka.(?)

Prabhupada: Tamarind.

Kartikeya: Tamarind.

Prabhupada: [break] ...samskara means education. Samskara means education. [break]

Kartikeya: No water.

Prabhupada: Why?

Kartikeya: Unless the government want, and they know... [break]

Prabhupada: ...There is scarcity of water in Gujarat.

Kartikeya: Yes. Except Surat. Surat has no problem. Narmad is there.

Prabhupada: No, here is also the river, Savarmati. Hare Krsna. Jaya.

Kartikeya: Here is Mr. Bhagwati. He's...

Prabhupada: Yes, yes, he is our old friend.

Mr. Bhagwati: (Hindi)

Kartikeya: He has come yesterday. Today also program is there. (Hindi)

Prabhupada: Hare Krsna. He has got his house, Nara...

Kartikeya: Narampura. (?)

Prabhupada: Narampura. [break] United Bank, there was one Bengali manager, maybe Mr. Chatterjee.

Kartikeya: In Ahmedabad?

Prabhupada: Hm. He's our good friend.

Kartikeya: You must have met last time?

Prabhupada: No, before that.

Kartikeya: But he must be transferred, I think. Normally they are having the transfer.

Prabhupada: You can inquire it.

Kartikeya: Chatterjee.

Prabhupada: Chatterjee and Mukherjee. Maybe Chatterjee, Bengali. So if he is there, you can say that "Bhaktivedanta Swami wants to see you."

Kartikeya: Correct. But can they not come at the function? (Hindi to person they meet) (relating answer to Prabhupada:) He says some friends are coming at some time, so can you meet them? We can just go back and if you want to walk or something?

Prabhupada: No, no more.

Kartikeya: O.K. (Hindi to someone) Because we are coming every day morning. The park opens at six o'clock, I think. This park opens at six. (to Prabhupada:) They form a club in the park when they come in the morning. They have morning party or talking. Otherwise they can't meet during the day. Somebody's a doctor, somebody's... [break]

Prabhupada: We can meet if they give us time.

Kartikeya: Tomorrow we shall. If we start little late, we can meet at seven. [break] Lot of parrots. Millions of them.

Prabhupada: No, as there, in India at least.

Kartikeya: No, here they've got more greenery, more trees. More agriculture is around.

Prabhupada: Oh, yes. They're taken care of. [break] This Vasu is a Bengali...

Kartikeya: R. Vasu.

Prabhupada: What is he?

Kartikeya: He's a municipal commissioner.

Prabhupada: Oh, I.A... I.A., yes, government officer. [break] ...from government side?

Kartikeya: Government side. There is no mayor in Ahmedabad now.

Prabhupada: Oh. Why?

Kartikeya: There is some difficulty, so they have abolished the post for the moment.

Prabhupada: No post is required.

Kartikeya: Only for applying the people.

Prabhupada: Simply it is prize post. Nobody does anything. Simply they draw salary. All these ministers, they do nothing. Just like Indira Gandhi is supposed to be very big plan-maker. So what she has done for the people? Hare Krsna. Jaya. (Hindi)

Harikesa: Whenever we have to go to a government office, there are six men sitting, and only one is doing work, and all are getting salaries.

Prabhupada: Yes. Last time we stayed where? Nearby?

Kartikeya: Mehtabhai Patel's. It is a little bit away from this place, only one mile from here. That Dr. Patel and another Dr. Patel is there.

Prabhupada: His father-in-law?

Kartikeya: Father-in-law. P.M. Patel. [break] They were trying to arrange if you'll come. [break]

Giriraja: One boy said he wants to join.

Prabhupada: Yes, they should join. All will go to hell. That is not good. At least one or two may be saved. Hare Krsna.

Passerby: Hare Krsna. Hare Rama.

Prabhupada: Jaya. Visata tamisram. Adanta-gobhir visata tamisram. When we say that they'll go to hell, it is not our manufacture. The sastra says. Hare Krsna. (end)