Morning Walks
Los Angeles
-1 Oct

Prabhupada: Easygoing, that is actual real life. But that easygoing, you must come to that stage. If you come to a healthy stage, then when you eat you can digest nicely. But unhealthy stage, if you eat, how you will digest? Therefore, you have to cure your disease first of all. Then you eat, it will be digested. So in the material condition, nothing can be (indistinct). Therefore, how it is called conditioned life?

Jayatirtha: We're bound up by so many conditions.

Prabhupada: Ah, the conditions. So first of all you come out of the conditioned life. Just like we are trying to go to other planets with so many machines, so many mechanical arrangements. But if you have got spiritual body, you can go anywhere. Anywhere you can go. As Narada Muni is going, traveling, any planet he likes he is going. That freedom is there, but that is in spiritual body. So you come to the spiritual body first, then you get all freedom. Whatever you like, you can do. Whatever you desire, you can get.

Svarupa Damodara: Just like Srila Prabhupada gives the example like Krsna consciousness, it might look like poison at the beginning, but at the end it will be nectar.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Svarupa Damodara: And so they..., they're reversing that, these people who...

Prabhupada: Yes. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gita. What is appearing as poison in the beginning, that will prove nectar at the end. [break] Even ordinary dealings. Just like I have given one watch to Syamasundara, that Omega. So I paid him... One hundred dollars has been spent to make it correct time, but it is not. Everyone, "Yes, I will make it repaired."

Svarupa Damodara: Just repairing?

Prabhupada: Repairing, four, five dollars, six dollars, and it is the same. And it is going on for the last one year.

Jayatirtha: Like automobiles, automobiles are built to break down in four or five years at the most so that you'll have to go and buy a new one. That's the way they build them. They could make them stronger, stronger parts, stronger engines, but they don't, so that in four or five years they'll break down and you'll have to come back and buy a new one.

Prabhupada: (Sanskrit) Even in ordinary dealings, people will cheat you. That is stated in the Srimad-Bhagavatam. (Sanskrit) Everyone is cheating. Even in ordinary talking, they will tell so many lies. [break] They live nicely in fresh air, in open air, trees, and talking about their business and they are happy. They have no problems for eating, sleeping, mating, nothing. Everything is there. And we are claiming civilized. We are dealing with science to improve conditions, the rascals they are becoming more and more degraded. They have no science, they have no laboratory, they have no university. How they are living peacefully? So it is... If this life is better or this life of cheating and imperfectness, full of anxieties, this life is better. Which life is better?

Jayatirtha: The animals, they are living by the arrangement of nature, they live according to their nature. Whereas the human beings...

Prabhupada: They have no anxiety.

Jayatirtha: ...perform prohibited activities and requirements and are living actually against their own nature. So the animal's life in that sense is better. At least they're not performing any sinful activities.

Prabhupada: That I explained last time, that they are simply misusing their advancement, and they are satisfied when they have got a motorcar instead of bullock cart. That's all. They think, "Now I am advanced. We had bullock cart, now we have got motorcar with three hundred thousand parts. And every part will give me trouble as soon as it is (indistinct)," (chuckles) and that is advancement. As soon as one part is broken, the bullock cart is called for. They get a bullock cart to carry this motorcar. [break] Everyone is servant. Therefore, we teach our students to address "prabhu." "I am your servant, you are my master, prabhu." That is the meaning of prabhu. Prabhu means master. And Prabhupada means supreme master. That is the meaning.

Jayatirtha: In this country there's a saying that everyone should be their own master. That's the philosophy. It's called individualism.

Prabhupada: Own master... He does not know how to become own master. That he does not know. He speaks only. Now, what is their explanation to become own master? How they explain? Explain.

Jayatirtha: The idea is that they want to be... to determine their own destiny.

Prabhupada: Hm?

Jayatirtha: They want to determine their own destiny. They think if they work very hard, they'll be able to build up their environment... (noise of plane taking off).

Prabhupada: This is not explanation. Own master means master of the senses.

Jayatirtha: That they don't know.

Prabhupada: Actually, everyone is servant of the senses at the present moment. So one has to become the master of the senses. That is called svami. Svami means master. Gosvami means master of the senses, the same thing. So everyone is servant of the senses. Everyone is acting being dictated by the senses. "Oh, it is very nice. Let me see." The eyes dictate what we see. What is time now?

Jayatirtha: Five after seven.

Prabhupada: Eh?

Jayatirtha: Five minutes after seven. [break]

(In car:)

Devotee (1): We were given a ride by some young people, a couple, and they were..., this was in Bakersfield, California. They said that a maharaja of Guru Maharaj-ji, a mahatma, they called him a mahatma, a disciple follower of this fourteen-year-old so-called avatara, is in Bakersfield, and he's staying there.

Prabhupada: Where he is now?

Devotee (1): He's supposed to still be in Bakersfield after Guru Maharaj-ji, but this mahatma is his follower. But they were very anxious to follow in his way because Guru Maharaj-ji is supposed to give direct perception of God. It's described that he will show you light.

Prabhupada: Eh?

Devotee (1): Yes. They said when you meet him, he can show you light. He's giving direct understanding of God in this way, this light. When I tried to ask them to understand some Krsna consciousness, they simply refused to listen. They had no desire to hear about Krsna consciousness. They said, "What your spiritual master has to offer? What can you offer except just some scriptures?" They had no respect for the sastra. So many young people are following this.

Jayatirtha: Everyone wants instant realization.

Prabhupada: Outlaws will say like that. "What education you have got? You have simply studied some lawbook." Outlaws will say like that. They will simply sell some book, "Now we are better that you. Without studying we have written."

Svarupa Damodara: That's why they are called demons.

Prabhupada: Eh?

Svarupa Damodara: They are called demons because... [break]

Prabhupada: (indistinct) here?

Jayatirtha: Yes, they're in Hollywood. I've never seen it.

Prabhupada: Eh?

Jayatirtha: They have a place in Hollywood. I've never seen it, but I know people who have gone there. They become like a fad, like Maharishi. Two years ago he was very big, thousands of people were coming.

Prabhupada: Who?

Jayatirtha: This Maharishi Mahesh Yogi. He was very big. He was in the newspapers and thousands of people came and paid thirty-five dollars, took initiation. But now you don't hear anything about him. So this man will come, make a big show, make some money, but in two years he'll just be a memory.

Prabhupada: (indistinct) Why does he not come again? He has gone forever.

Svarupa Damodara: You have said that whenever there is Krsna there will be success everywhere, all the time.

Prabhupada: Eh?

Svarupa Damodara: When there is Krsna, there will be success everywhere.

Prabhupada: That is the real success. (indistinct) There are so many places I see the sign for.

Jayatirtha: Yes, they are one of the biggest corporations in the United States.

Prabhupada: Accha?

Jayatirtha: They're one of the biggest corporations in the United States. They have a..., at least one or two thousand of those, I think more than two thousand.

Devotee (1): They're all across the country. Kentucky Fried Chicken. Colonel Sanders.

Prabhupada: Many thousands of chickens are being killed.

Jayatirtha: Oh, millions of chickens.

Devotee (1): Millions every day.

Jayatirtha: Just like this MacDonald's hamburger stands, they have a sign in front of their hamburger stands—they have also several thousand hamburger stands—the sign says, "Over ten billion hamburgers served." Their company has served ten billion hamburgers. [break] (Outside walking:)

Prabhupada: America?

Svarupa Damodara: Yes. He told me he was very pleased to see Srila Prabhupada, and he said he will start chanting Hare Krsna. He said he will go to Laguna Beach temple and he said he will try out chanting Hare Krsna.

Jayatirtha: He told me that he could see that this knowledge wasn't theoretical, that it was realized knowledge.

Prabhupada: Eh?

Jayatirtha: He told me that.

Prabhupada: What is that?

Jayatirtha: That the knowledge that you have isn't theoretical but it's realized. He was very much impressed by that.

Svarupa Damodara: He liked the prasadam so much that I made another plate and he finished that. Then after that he took the..., he finished the... What is that preparation from eggplant?

Devotee (2): The vegetable, he really liked that.

Svarupa Damodara: Yes, he finished all plate, he liked so much. He said, "What is this?"

Prabhupada: Gradually try to convince him and let him read our books.

Svarupa Damodara: We are in the same floor. He works on the physics side, I am in chemistry side, but we are in the same floor, fourth floor of the building. No, he is on the third floor. So Srila Prabhupada is saying that prove the existence of Krsna by the science of physics, your knowledge. So he asked me, how am I going to prove the existence of Krsna by chemistry?

Prabhupada: That requires your knowledge.

Svarupa Damodara: But he agreed the existence of supreme brain. We were talking about the talk between Einstein, Heisenberg, and some of the famous so-called physicists in nuclear field. So there was a conversation between Einstein and this Heisenberg, and Paul Durad(?), and (?), these are mostly (?) scientists, they are mostly Nobel Laureates. They were discussing, and without Einstein, these people they were talking, "Why Einstein is all the time talking about God?" Then this Heisenberg, he was not like Einstein. Einstein himself, he believed that there is a brain behind, supreme brain of God. And some of them, specifically this one, young Durad(?), he is also a scientist, he was very young, he was only twenty-five years old. So he said, "Einstein is all the time talking about God." This Durad(?) is completely opposite to this Einstein. So they were discussing about why Einstein is thinking about God all the time. And so... But ultimately they said, most of them agreed that there is a supreme being who is making all these physical laws, natural laws. It's already in the universe, but they are trying to discover it. So most of them agree except this Durad(?). So in the same line, (?) told me that yes, we agree that all the physical laws is already there. If somebody doesn't make it, then how can it exist? So he said he is thinking also in that line that there is someone, some brain, some supreme brain who is making all these physical laws. Otherwise there cannot be physical laws if there is not someone. He was saying that he started thinking in that line too.

Prabhupada: (Sanskrit) He makes everything, but He is not attached. [break]

Svarupa Damodara: do you know that guru is qualified, spiritual master is qualified? Then I said everything is written in the sastras, so we have to follow according to the injunctions written in the sastras. So all the qualifications of a pure devotee, of a bona fide guru, is written there. Just like you are a professor of physics in the university. Before you came, you had some qualification, degree of doctors. And then there is a committee to decide you whether you are qualified for the post. So it is selected by a committee of members and then they interview and then they find out your qualifications. If they find that you are qualified for the post, so you are selected as a professor. It's like that in the spiritual field also. There are revealed scriptures and there everything is written what will be the qualification of a guru and then how to choose a bona fide one. So everything is written, you should follow the injunctions of the revealed scriptures accordingly.

Prabhupada: Committee is his spiritual master, he orders that you do this.

Jayatirtha: The test is to see how much one is actually following the orders of his spiritual master.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Ramesvara: Listening to another so-called guru, everywhere we go, especially in Los Angeles, they always talk of other gurus. They always talk of spiritual knowledge, but they don't find out what the real test is.

Prabhupada: What is your answer?

Ramesvara: So we show them our books and say that these are the real scriptures, real quality. The (indistinct) have to be the quality of the spiritual knowledge.

Prabhupada: How do you explain? You are realized or not? (indistinct)

Ramesvara: Prabhupada, when you say that this is the knowledge that's been realized...

Prabhupada: What is that? Why don't you explain? (indistinct) That means they do not know.

Devotee (2): One who is developing in spiritual life is becoming detached from material things. These persons who are following other gurus are attached to material things. They're still smoking, having sex life, drinking.

Jayatirtha: It's difficult to (indistinct) detached to material things. One should be attached to Krsna.

Prabhupada: That attachment will become. That is the special (indistinct). You cannot be completely detached. If you be detachment from something, you must be attached to something. Otherwise you have no perception(?). So you should be detached from matter and attached to Krsna.

Devotee (2): (indistinct)

Prabhupada: (indistinct)

Devotee (2): The devotee is always offering devotional service to the Supreme Personality.

Prabhupada: Yes, that is (inaudible). Simply by knowledge... Knowledge you must have, but simply theoretical knowledge... Practical manifestation that he's a great devotee. Whenever there is any doubt or question, he will prove by the evidences of sastra.

Jayatirtha: ...was saying last night to our scientist friend, than Krsna is the perfect teacher. The spiritual master is simply repeating perfectly what Krsna is saying. So if Krsna is saying, "Surrender to Me," then the spiritual master is saying, "Surrender to Krsna."

Prabhupada: Yes.

Jayatirtha: So in this way, the spiritual master and Krsna are in complete agreement.

Prabhupada: Thus he becomes the (indistinct) of Krsna.

Ramesvara: The other teachers, they don't talk...

Prabhupada: When is Ekadasi?

Svarupa Damodara: Ekadasi?

Ramesvara: Tuesday is Ekadasi.

Svarupa Damodara: Tuesday, tomorrow?

Ramesvara: Our calendar says Tuesday. It's obvious when they talk about their teachers that they never talk of service to Krsna.

Prabhupada: Therefore, they have no realization. Our relationship is service. So one who is not engaged in the service of the Supreme, he has no realization. Whatever little realization he has got, that is called santa-rasa.

Jayatirtha: Dasya realization is (indistinct).

Prabhupada: Dasya-rasa. (indistinct) [break] ...practical devotee, he cannot become (indistinct).

Jayatirtha: (indistinct) what you were speaking about yesterday, that if someone claims to be a teacher but he doesn't actually have real knowledge, then he's simply cheating.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Ramesvara: There's nothing practical that they say.

Prabhupada: Eh?

Ramesvara: They say nothing practical.

Prabhupada: That means they do not follow any practical. That is their rascaldom. Nothing practical means they do not know what is the practical realization of God. That is their ignorance. And still they are claiming to be teachers. That is cheating. Just like these so-called scientists, they are theorizing, but they cannot practically prove. Therefore, their knowledge is imperfect. Bahunam janmanam ante jñanavan mam prapadyate [Bg. 7.19]. Jñanavan, the wise, after many, many births' cultivation of knowledge, when he surrenders, that is practical. Simply knowledge is useless, theoretical. When he practically surrenders, that is end of knowledge. That is perfection.

Jayatirtha: (indistinct)

Prabhupada: Yes. This is stated. You don't read Bhagavad-gita? You don't read?

Ramesvara: In class we have, every evening.

Prabhupada: So in the Tenth Chapter it is said, tesam satata-yuktanam bhajatam priti-purvakam [Bg. 10.10]. Do you know this verse? Bhajatam priti-purvakam. "One who is engaged in devotional service with love and faith," buddhi-yogam dadami, "I give him intelligence." That is stated. Satata-yuktanam, "Twenty-four hours engaged with love and faith in My service, I give him intelligence, not to others." That is the qualification. Buddhi-yogam dadami te yena mam upayanti. What kind of intelligence? By which one can come back to home, back to Godhead. Not for material enjoyment, or bluffing or cheating. Not that intelligence. That intelligence also given by Him, indirectly. "If you want to cheat, all right, I will give you how to cheat others." That is material. In the material world, we can cheat. In the spiritual world, there is no question of cheating.

Jayatirtha: The intelligence by which we can come to Krsna is a special kind of intelligence.

Prabhupada: That is perfect intelligence. Therefore we say Krsna is the perfect teacher. In the Fifteenth Chapter, sarvasya caham hrdi sannivisṭo mattaḥ; smrtir jñanam apohanam ca: [Bg. 15.15] "I am sitting in everyone's heart. All intelligence, memory, is coming from Me, and forgetfulness also is caused by Me." So He is the supreme controller in every respect.

Jayatirtha: Why are some people remembering and some people are forgetting Him?

Prabhupada: Hm?

Jayatirtha: If Krsna is the source of both remembrance and forgetfulness...

Prabhupada: Yes. When Krsna sees that "Here is a rascal, so let him forget Me." So He will give him intelligence so that he can forget Krsna for good. Not for good—at least for some time.

Svarupa Damodara: That is the desire of the individual soul.

Prabhupada: Yes. Ye yatha mam prapadyante [Bg. 4.11]. "As one surrenders unto Me, according to that." Real process is surrender. So if you surrender with some reservation, with some ulterior motive, then Krsna will give you proportionately intelligence. When you are cent percent without any reservation surrender, then you get all facility, all help from Krsna, without asking... Just like a small child, he is fully surrendered unto the parent. The parent looks after all the necessities. He doesn't ask anything. That is wanted.

Jayatirtha: [break] ...the six principles of surrender in devotional service.

Prabhupada: Yes. That is very important. What is the time?

Jayatirtha: (indistinct) minutes to seven. One of the six principles is that our interest must be the same in that we can't have any separate interest outside of the interest of the Lord. So that...

Prabhupada: That is surrender. You have no personal interest.

Jayatirtha: That would be another test of the spiritual master, is that if he has some interest outside of Krsna's interest, then we can understand that he isn't surrendered.

Prabhupada: Anyone. All these rascals come as guru. They say, "I am Krsna." Therefore, he has got his own interest. That is immediately disqualification, that he is a rascal. Kick him in his face, as soon as he says.

Jayatirtha: If a person is surrendering to Krsna, he won't take over Krsna's post.

Prabhupada: That's it.

Svarupa Damodara: (indistinct) by the mercy of Krsna one gets this bona fide spiritual master.

Prabhupada: Krsna is always merciful. He comes Himself also and demands surrender, but we do not do that. That we cannot do.

Jayatirtha: As you were saying last night, if we had no independence, then there wouldn't be any question of... We'd be just like dull matter. There'd be no difference. So we have that independence.

Prabhupada: By our misuse of independence, we do not surrender. Otherwise Krsna says, "You surrender!"

Jayatirtha: The spiritual master teaches how to surrender to Krsna.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Jayatirtha: And it's done by surrendering to the teachings of the spiritual master.

Prabhupada: Then whatever he teaches is perfect, because to the surrendered soul Krsna gives the intelligence. So when he speaks, he speaks perfectly because Krsna is dictating, "You do this, you speak like this."

Svarupa Damodara: In the Caitanya-caritamrta, Caitanya Mahaprabhu says to Sanatana Gosvami that spiritual life starts by accepting..., the moment the disciple accepts a spiritual master. And then he follows the instruction that...

Prabhupada: Adau gurvasrayam, adau first to accept a spiritual master. Sad-dharma prccha. Then inquiries. Sadhu marganugamanam. These are stated in our Nectar of Devotion.

Jayatirtha: (indistinct)

Prabhupada: Hm?

Jayatirtha: She is a 40-years-old lady, her name is Lucille. She is very much actually convinced of our philosophy and is devoted to Krsna consciousness, but the only thing is, because she comes conditioned from a previous life, can't give up, has a very hard time giving up smoking cigarettes and drinking coffee. She's been trying for about nine months to give up these things, (indistinct) but she can't do it. Still she is desirous of initiation. So I don't know what to (indistinct)

Prabhupada: No. You must at least promise that he gives [break] And if we promise that (indistinct). But after initiation if she smokes, that's not good.

Jayatirtha: Yes. (indistinct)

Svarupa Damodara: (indistinct)

Jayatirtha: So if someone is sincere, we want them to follow devotional principles. (indistinct)

Prabhupada: No. If you have the determination, Krsna will help. If she is determined that "Even if I die, I shall not smoke," then Krsna will help her. And if she thinks, "So I'll not do it. If Krsna likes, He will help me." (indistinct) Just like (indistinct). He has prepared some nice foodstuff. So he says, "If Krsna comes, I will give Him; otherwise I shall eat." (laughter) "And if Krsna is very hungry, He will come." So this alternative proposal is not accepted. "If Krsna comes, I will offer Him this. Otherwise I shall eat."

Svarupa Damodara: That is personal motivation.

Prabhupada: This is not surrender.

Jayatirtha: Krsna is not attracted by the foodstuff; He's attracted by the devotion.

Prabhupada: Devotion, yes. For Krsna we can offer (indistinct). [break]

Jayatirtha: You will go from London to Bombay?

Prabhupada: If need be. (indistinct) [break]

Svarupa Damodara: It is dark.

Prabhupada: It's getting darker and darker. (indistinct) So we will have to change our plan. [break] (indistinct) ...and they are also making dog show.

Svarupa Damodara: When I came here, I was walking and I saw big house and the restaurants. So I didn't know what... So I asked somebody, "Oh, this is just (indistinct)." And afterward I found out it was some food made out of...

Devotee (2): Meat.

Svarupa Damodara: Yes. But I thought in the other sense that it may be dog's meat(?) [break] neighbour(?) from Poona, he was also from Calcutta, (indistinct) to me, he came little later than I, he thought... One day he came to me and he said he took a hamburger in the restaurant. He said that hamburger is not made out of beef. He said it is made out of ham. So he said he had hamburger. He came to me and he said. I said, "So you have taken beef?" So he said "No, it is not. It is ham."

Prabhupada: Now many Indians are taking beef. Most. In London, all Indians they take beef. The school children, they take beef.

Jayatirtha: They don't remember their culture.

Svarupa Damodara: When they come here, they change everything, most of them.

Devotee (2): I run into many Indian people, many young boys going to school, on sankirtana, on holidays. They don't want to try to understand Bhagavata philosophy.

Prabhupada: Indian student?

Devotee (2): Some students, they are going colleges for higher learning.

Prabhupada: He was inquiring that why we ask no meat-eating. They (indistinct) that why we ask no meat-eating. That Dr. Bernhard, he was asking.

Svarupa Damodara: Dr. Benford?.

Prabhupada: Benford. [break] ...before me never dared to ask people to stop meat-eating. Rather, they learned how to eat meat. Vivekananda was eighty years ago, he came. He learned how to eat meat. Instead of teaching Vedanta, he learned how to eat meat.

Jayatirtha: In the Vedanta Society temple in Santa Barbara, they were offering chicken soup...

Prabhupada: Prasadam.

Jayatirtha: the Goddess Kali an offering, and then they were distributing it as prasadam.

Prabhupada: In the name of Vedanta.

Jayatirtha: Vedanta means the goal of knowledge, but they are making an end of knowledge. Kesava went to Santa Barbara last night to finish up some last minute business he had there, but now he's back and he is resting.

Prabhupada: So he is prepared to go to London?

Jayatirtha: He seems anxious to go, yes.

Prabhupada: That's good. Why Syamasundara does not return?

Jayatirtha: He's here. He's also asleep. He came in the middle of the night, two or three o'clock in the morning.

Prabhupada: (indistinct)

Jayatirtha: (indistinct) is in charge of our traveling sankirtana party, so he's back here for a few days. They're going around to all the fairs, state fairs, county fairs, and distributing literature. He's had very great success

Prabhupada: Indians are coming in Europe and America to learn technology, but next generation will come here to learn spiritual science, to seek brahmanas. What do you think?

Svarupa Damodara: Yes, there's no doubt about it. They will learn technology the coming years, and when they become frustrated again, then they will again learn the spiritual science.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Jayatirtha: A lot of times when the Indian people come to our temple, they remark like that, that they've never seen such a temple and devotees.

Prabhupada: There is no temple in India. As we are maintaining our temple, there is no such temple in India. There are temple, they are neglected. Just like here, the churches are neglected. [break] ...demons, and here we are manufacturing demigods.

Svarupa Damodara: I read in the news that in the next five-year plan, they are planning to spend about thirty-two billion rupees for education, the greatest for ten years. They said that there were so many mistakes for the last ten years in introducing the basic education that everybody said there is no success. So they are planning another thirty-two billion rupees from 1974 onwards.

Prabhupada: What education? To eat meat and beef.

Svarupa Damodara: Yes.

Prabhupada: That education. And no restriction of sex even amongst the leaders.

Jayatirtha: And all advanced contraceptive methods.

Prabhupada: This Jawaharlal(?) was implicated with his sister, and some say with his daughter also, and he was the prime minister. This is their position. In our Indian system, education is matrvat para-daresu: every woman except your own wife, all mothers. That is education. Matra svasra duhitra va [SB 9.19.17]. Either your mother or sister or daughter, you don't live together alone. These are education. And they're freely advocating sex life. What is the (indistinct) difference? In India they're doing, so many leaders. (indistinct), it can be done. The leaders are speaking while doing that. No discrimination, just like hog. No discrimination. [break]

Jayatirtha: Isopanisad that modern-day educational system means culturing avidya.

Prabhupada: Yes, avidya.

Jayatirtha: So they're spending so much, so many billions of rupees, simply to culture ignorance.

Prabhupada: Making rogues and gunḍas and hippies, that's all. The science is manufacturing atom bomb, and philanthropy is becoming hippies. This is the result of education. They are manufacturing compounds, strong contraceptive method, infallible contraceptive method. Suffering only. What is the time now?

Jayatirtha: (?) minutes to seven.

Svarupa Damodara: So this propensity will increase in this Kali-yuga.

Prabhupada: Yes. [break]

Jayatirtha: many riots by the students at the university there that the shopkeepers in the local area are suing the State because the windows have been broken so many times and so much merchandise has been stolen by the students, they think the State should pay them back.

Prabhupada: Yes, they must. The State must be responsible. What the State reply?

Jayatirtha: Well, they're having to litigate in court over it. The State doesn't want to do it. So this university there is one of the most famous universities in the whole country. They spend so many millions of dollars to maintain it nicely. [break] (dog barking) ...changing their bodies in particular ways to make them look (indistinct).

Prabhupada: When you do not take care of God, you must take care of dog. (laughter) (end)