Room Conversation Including Discussion on SB 4.13.48 to SB 4.14.11
Jaipur
18 Jan

Prabhupada: There was monarchy, the kings were very responsible. Therefore, the kings were known as rajarsi. Rajarsi, raja rsi, rajarsi, this is compound word. (indistinct) king supervising the administration of the state, still his character was just like a rsi, (indistinct) great sage. That was the qualification of the king. Therefore... Also Vedic civilization, even up to Maharaja Pariksit, the government was monarchy. At the present moment, practically all monarchical state is abolished. Even there is some monarchy... Formerly... (indistinct) just like in England, the Queen, she is powerless. Actually, the Queen has no power. People have taken away the power. Here also there is the (indistinct) Jaipur. Actually, they are the owner of the state, Jaipur state, the old state, at least five hundred years old, this state. (indistinct) It is the kingdom of Maharaja Mansingh, former Mansingh, who was commander-in-chief of emperor (indistinct).

But now they have no power. The people have taken away the power. But according to Vedic civilization, this people's government is not sanctioned. Democracy. Democracy is not sanctioned. But in the Kali-yuga, nobody will be a standard king. Anybody, by hook and crook, if he captures the royal throne, he becomes king. That is predicted in the Srimad-Bhagavatam. Formerly, only the ksatriyas were the kings. But at the present moment, because the institution of varnasrama-dharma is topsy-turvy, practically no more existing, everyone in this age is calculated to the sudras. So therefore, there is struggle, who will capture the power? We see practically in political field, the people are interested for capturing the power, but they are not interested... Formality. So they put their manifesto before the election, that we shall serve you in this way and that way. But because they are simply busy to keep their position in the political power...

Just like recently there was fight between two political parties, and represented by two big men, Visvanatha Das and Hare Krsna Mahatattva. Both of them learned men, lawyers, but they are fighting like cats and dogs. So formerly therefore, there was no such thing as democracy. A king, there must be one king responsible. But he was guided by the ministers and learned brahmanas, sages. There was a body to guide him, to train him. Therefore, the monarchical government was perfect. Now here is a story of Vena Maharaja. His father was very (indistinct) it is usual, very nice king. But his son, this Vena, born of a bad mother, he was not good. He was killing unnecessarily animal, even men, because he was prince. So he would play with his friends and if there is any fault on the part of his friends, he will at once kill. And because he was prince, son of the king, nobody could take any steps. So the king was very much perturbed within his mind how to train this boy to become future king. But he was not successful. He was not successful. Therefore, being too much depressed and disgusted, he left home. He left home, let the things take place as it is. So

vijñaya nirvidya gatam patim prajaḥ;
purohitamatya-suhrd-ganadayaḥ;
vicikyur urvyam atisoka-katara
yatha niguá¸ham purusam kuyoginaḥ;
[SB 4.13.48]

So purohita. It appears, purohita means the priestly order. In Europe also, this same Vedic civilization was everywhere. In the Middle Age, the priestly class used to control the king, was it not? And the King John or..., that he protested against the priestly order, and he inaugurated the Protestant Christianity from England.

Devotee: Henry.

Prabhupada: Henry, Henry, yes. So he revolted, not being controlled, revolted against being controlled by the priestly order. Here also we see, purohita amatya-suhrd-ganadayaḥ;. When the king left, then the priestly order, purohita, purohita means priestly order, amatya, amatya means ministers, and suhrd-ganadayaḥ;, suhrt means those who are willing welfare of the state, they became very much aggrieved that the king has left.

alaksayantaḥ; padavim prajapater
hatodyamaḥ; pratyupasrtya te purim
rsin sametan abhivandya sasravo
nyavedayan paurava bhartr-viplavam
[SB 4.13.49]

So they were afraid of some political convulsion. So although the son was worthless, so they decided that "Let us make him king. Otherwise, without king, how the state can go on?" So

bhrgv-adayas te munayo
lokanam ksema-darsinaḥ;
goptary asati vai ná¹nam
pasyantaḥ; pasu-samyatam
[SB 4.14.1]

Because there was no king, so people became always like..., almost like animals. Pasu-samyatam. Pasu means animal, and samyatam means equal. So when there is a political, less strong political situation, not very strong government, at that time a class of men take advantage. Just like in Calcutta. Because the government was very lenient, not very strong, a demonic class of men took advantage of it and they began to create atrocities and fearfulness in Calcutta city. We have seen, practically people are not going out after evening, they are always staying in the fearful state. Nobody knows whether he will come back home again when he goes out of his home on the street. People are so much disturbed. So in the absence of strong king, these people take advantage and create disturbances. That is always there. So that happened. The people became pasu-samyatam. Therefore, the sages called a meeting of all respectable ministers and saintly persons and brahmanas and decided, "Let us make this boy king." So he was enthroned. But because he was demonic, he was very strong. So as soon as he became king, all the bad elements of the state, they stopped their nefarious activities. Srutva nrpasana-gatam venam atyugra-sasanam. They knew that this king is very strong and for any little criminal action, he will strike very severely. So the bad elements, they subsided.

srutva nrpasana-gatam
venam atyugra-sasanam
nililyur dasyavaḥ; sadyaḥ;
sarpa-trasta ivakhavaḥ;
[SB 4.14.3]

Ivakhavaḥ;. Just like the rats, they understand that the snake is there so they go inside the ground and they disappear. Sometimes rats, everyone knows, everywhere as soon as the house is very old, there are many rats. And as soon as there are rats, the serpent will come, the snake will come. So to keep the rats, that is also very dangerous. So one after another, the nature's arrangement is there. So the example is given that nililyur dasyavaḥ; sadyaḥ; sarpa-trasta ivakhavaḥ;.

sa aruá¸ha-nrpa-sthana
unnaddho 'sṭa-vibhutibhiḥ;
avamene maha-bhagan
stabdhaḥ; sambhavitaḥ; svataḥ;
[SB 4.14.4]

In this way, when he became very much powerful, he began to neglect the orders of the great sages, brahmanas, and respectable gentlemen. He became very much upstart.

evam madandha utsikto
nirankusa iva dvipaḥ;
paryaá¹­an ratham asthaya
kampayann iva rodasi
[SB 4.14.5]

So he became so strong that when he was traveling in the state, everyone was trembling. So very strong king. In this way, when he became too much powerful, then he began to preach atheism. That is the way. The raksasi, the demonic way is there. If a demon becomes powerful—just like nowadays it is going on—somehow or other if somebody becomes powerful, he doesn't care for the sastric injunction or religion or God. They don't care for it. Just like there are many instances, Ravana, Hiranyakasipu, like that. So he also became like that. Then he began to order

na yasá¹­avyam na datavyam
na hotavyam dvijaḥ; kvacit
iti nyavarayad dharmam
bheri-ghosena sarvasaḥ;
[SB 4.14.6]

By bugle announcement. In your country, I do not know, maybe. It is here in India still existing that if some public announcement has to be done, one takes a drum or bugle, he stands in one place and bugles or beats the drum, people when gathered they announce something that "This will be done. This is the order of the king or the state." Is there any such system in England?

Syamasundara: Formerly there was.

Prabhupada: Huh?

Syamasundara: Formerly there was. A town crier.

Prabhupada: Trumpeting.

Syamasundara: They call it town crier.

Prabhupada: Town crier, yes, yes.

Syamasundara: He would go around and announce.

Prabhupada: Yes, the town crier. So the town crier began to preach that "No more any sacrifice or yajña. Stop all this nonsense. No more Hare Krsna mantra." (chuckles) Yes, they... Just like in Russia we are afraid or China, yes. They will immediately arrest. So this declaration was there, public. Na yasṭavyam na, no charity, no more charity. Just like government at the present moment, they are allowing charity still, but most of the portion of the income they take away by income tax so that one may not have any power to give in charity. So at the present moment, the government does not declare that charity is illegal, but that time is coming very soon, very soon. As soon as there will be Communist government... Our Indira Gandhi is cooperating with the Russians, and as soon as she is under the control of the Russians, gradually Communism will be introduced. People are afraid of this attempt by Indira Gandhi.

So anyway, these such things were existing formerly also, but they were not very common affair. Sometimes after many, many years, a bad king would come. Throughout the history, at least in Srimad-Bhagavatam, we find this one king only, Vena, who declared the sacrifice, charity illegal. na yasṭavyam na datavyam na hotavyam dvijaḥ; kvacit [SB 4.14.6], by the brahmanas. Just like the other day it was published in the paper that this India spiritual, this is a myth. They are also declaring. Iti nyavarayad dharmam. So execution of religious principle was forbidden, nyavarayat. Bheri-ghosena, bheri means bugle, by bugle, sarvasaḥ;, everywhere.

venasyaveksya munayo
durvrttasya vicesá¹­itam
vimrsya loka-vyasanam
krpayocuḥ; sma satrinaḥ;
[SB 4.14.7]

So all the great sages and saintly persons, brahmanas, they assembled together and began to consider, "Now what to be done? This rascal king has declared like this and making things hellish, what to do?"

This is the problem of Krsna consciousness movement, that people are becoming more and more Godless. And one may think that unnecessarily we have taken this responsibility to make them God conscious, Krsna conscious. There is no need to make this propaganda all over the world. But actually, the saintly persons have concern. Just like the other day I told you, Prahlada Maharaja was concerned that these rascals for temporary so-called... [break] ...people are engaged unnecessarily to work very hard day and night, the capitalist, the worker. Big, big factory, iron factory, in so many factories, unnecessarily. So Prahlada Maharaja was concerned. He was living, his father was a demon, in the demonic state. So this is natural. If one saintly person do not be disturbed by people's unhappiness, he is not saintly person. He is not saintly person. If he is simply satisfied that "I have got a temple, I am getting good income, let me eat and sleep." My Guru Maharaja condemned this process. He said that to earn livelihood by showing some temple and collecting money and eat and sleep, better to become a sweeper in the street and earn his livelihood instead of earning livelihood in this so-called spiritual way. So practically all over the world a class of men, a priestly class of men, they have made it a means of earning livelihood, temple achar(?), taking money from people and enjoying, and then become drunkard. In your country, five thousand drunkard priests were consolidated in a hospital for treatment. They're getting money. So there is possibility, we are opening temples, public is contributing. But if we become easy-goer, "Now money is coming, let us eat sumptuously and eat, eat and sleep, and if possible drink also." But, of course, we are restricting. But naturally when one man becomes idle, idle brain is the devil's workshop. So if he can get... Just like rich man's son, they become. Everyone has got experience in every country. When he has no difficulty to get money, then what he will do? He will simply drink or invent some means of intoxication, naked dance. So they became very much perturbed. Venasyaveksya durvrttasya vicesṭitam, vimrsya loka-vyasanam krpaya ucuḥ; sma... Krpaya, they were very much compassionate. They cannot see. Para-duḥ;kha-duḥ;khi. Therefore, Vaisnava is always unhappy by seeing other's unhappiness. They know how they are going to hell. Just like any gentleman will be aggrieved when they pass on the Bowery Street, seeing their fallen condition. So if any gentleman can become unhappy by seeing such condition of people, what to speak of saintly persons who are supposed to be responsible for spiritual up...

Devotee: Ahhhh!

Prabhupada: What is that?

Devotee: A monkey. No one is guarding.

Prabhupada: Somebody must be there. So monkeys, they are now taking advantage, that these people have got some eatables. Therefore, Darwin's theory is from monkey. That's a fact. From the monkey, cow, and lion, the next birth is human life. So vimrsya loka-vyasanam krpaya ucuḥ; sma satrinaḥ;, they began to discuss how to mitigate the troubles of the people. They began to discuss that aho ubhayataḥ; praptam lokasya vyasanam mahat. People, they are now disturbed both ways. One way, the king is a rascal. Another way is that taking advantage of the bad king, the thieves and rogues, they are also very powerful. So just see how the saintly persons became compassionate to the people that they are both ways. Actually at the present moment, people are disturbed by unnecessary taxes, at the same time bad elements. So without proper king, without nice state, everyone is unhappy. And that is going on nowadays. In the Kali-yuga, it will go on continual, and more and more people will be unhappy.

arajaka-bhayad esa
krto rajatad-arhanaḥ;
tato 'py asid bhayam tv adya
katham syat svasti dehinam
[SB 4.14.9]

If people are disturbed in this way, both ways, from the state side and from the rogue side, then how they will live peacefully? Just like we sometimes say that if the politicians and the statesmen they are so irresponsible, fighting amongst themselves to capture the power, where is the time for them to think of people's welfare? They cannot. It is not possible. The same thing happened there. Tato api asid bhayam tu adya katham syat svasti dehinam. Svasti means peacefulness, dehinam, of the embodied living entities, dehinam.

aher iva payaḥ;-posaḥ;
posakasyapy anartha-bhrt
venaḥ; prakrtyaiva khalaḥ;
sunitha-garbha-sambhavaḥ;
[SB 4.14.10]

Nirupitaḥ; praja-palaḥ; sa jighamsati vai prajaḥ;. So Vena, here it is mentioned, sunitha-garbha-sambhavaḥ;. His mother's name was Sunitha. She was also daughter of a very bad king, and she inherited the father's quality. And the son also inherited the mother's quality. This is also true. The son inherits mother's quality, and the daughter inherits father's quality. So because the grandfather of Vena Maharaja was a bad man, his daughter means Sunitha, the mother of Vena, she became bad. And naturally her son, Vena, she (he) became bad. The father was very nice, good king. But because the mother was not good, the son became bad. Here is the evidence. Sunitha-garbha-sambhavaḥ;. Sunitha, his mother's name was Sunitha. Because he was born in the womb of Sunitha, a bad woman, therefore, he... Nirupitaḥ; praja-palaḥ; sa jighamsati vai prajaḥ;. He has been elected as the king to protect the citizens. Instead of protecting, he is disturbing.

nirupitaḥ; praja-palaḥ;
sa jighamsati vai prajaḥ;
tathapi santvayemamum
nasmams tat-patakam sprset
[SB 4.14.11]

Now there is another saintly compassion, "Never mind he has done so much mischievous activities, this king, still it is our duty to go to him and give him good advice so that all these disturbances may be stopped and people will become happy." Just mark this point that formerly the government could not be irresponsible because the saintly person, they are always thinking welfare of the people in general. Mark this point.

So therefore, a saintly person duty is to protect the praja, the citizens, in a system so that they may become happy both materially and spiritually. This is one of the duties of the saintly person. Not that let me go to Himalaya and press my nose and I become liberated. This is not saintly person. This is not saintly person. Saintly person means they should be interested with the public welfare, real public welfare. And public welfare means every citizens should be Krsna conscious, and then they will be happy both materially and spiritually. My point is that our Krsna consciousness movement is not selfish movement. It is the most philanthropic movement. But people in the name of philanthropic movement generally, because they are not actually saintly persons, they collect money and live.

Just like we can say frankly that the Ramakrishna Mission, they are collecting money, huge money from your country, here also, to mitigate the sufferings of the poor people, daridra-Narayana seva. But actually you see that how many poverty-stricken people are there in India, and if you go to the Ramakrishna Mission, you will see all the swamis, they are living in royal order. This is going on. But people are still fool that... But your American people now, they are questioning. That one swami, Nikhilananda, he told me personally that the American people now are questioning that "You collect money for feeding the poor, but when we go to India, we see so many people lying down on the street." So they are questioning. Naturally there will be question. So... (aside) Oh, Hare Krsna. (chuckles) So our Jaipur party is becoming stronger and stronger. So what news from Delhi? (end)