Room Conversation
Bombay
6 Apr

Prabhupada: ...therefore they are coming to these things. Process of killing is different because in this age if you simply kill all the papis, then there will be no more existence because everybody is papi. If you take sword and kill the papis, then everybody will be finished. Of course, that will be done at the last stage of Kali-yuga. But here the process of Krsna consciousness movement is killing the papa-bija. Papa-bija means just like a man is a thief. He knows that "If I steal, according to sastra, I'll be punished by God. Or there is no god. Then I'll be punished by the state, by the police." He knows that. And he sees also that one man who has committed theft, he is arrested and he is taken by the police. He has seen also. But still he does stealing. He knows either from the state point of view or sastra point of view, and he sees practically. Still he does it. Why? Papa-bija. In the heart the seed of committing sinful activities is there. So simply by seeing or knowing, it will not be killed. It has to be killed by this Krsna consciousness movement. He should be purified from the heart he'll give up everything. So this killing process is paritranaya sadhunam vinasaya ca duskrtam [Bg. 4.8]. So this papa-bija, the seed of sinful activities, is being killed. Otherwise, how people give up all the sinful activities? Because the papa-bija, the original seed, is being killed away. You see practically.

Guest: Divine birth is not... There's no known being, super-being, here to... Here you find Vietnam War, you find here Bangladesh, you find all suffering and they'll cry all around to God that "He will come and protect us," and there is no protection anywhere from this.

Prabhupada: Well, this kind of protection, crying at the time of danger, this is experienced from past history also. Just like in the last war in Germany. One German friend told me that naturally all the women went to the church for praying, "My Lord, save my husband. Save my brother." Because all men were in the front, only women were left. So they were praying that "My husband may come back. My brother may come back," or "My father may come back," but nobody came back, and they thought, "Oh, there is no God. Our all prayers are useless." They became atheist.

Guest: Then that God should come.

Prabhupada: So God is not your order-supplier.

Guest: They became atheist...

Prabhupada: God is not your order-supplier. You create war and pray to the church. Why you create war? Precaution is better than... Unless you Krsna conscious, then you will... Tena tyaktena bhuñjitha [Iso mantra 1]. You will encroach upon other's property. That papa-bija has to be killed. Now, after creating war... What is the use? After creating war by your own fault, if you go to the church and pray God, "Please save me," so who wanted you to create this war? They are creating their wars, and they are making God as order-supplier: "Now I have created war. Please stop it." Why? Did you do it by the sanction of God? So they must suffer. How can you make God as your order-supplier? You create something by your own fault and you ask God to come and save you. What is your answer? That is... That is, means, sva-karma-phala-bhuk. You have created something: you must suffer for that. You have created some disease: you must suffer it. Why you violated the law of nature and created your disease? Is it not a fact that when you eat, overeat, and you have got so many troubles in the stomach, then you must suffer for some time. You have created that disease.

Guest: But (indistinct) women, children, they are different. (indistinct) After all, they have not done anything.

Prabhupada: Well, when there is war, that thing happens everywhere. But the persons who create war, they are responsible for it. Yada yada hi dharmasya. First of all we have to understand.

yada yada hi dharmasya
glanir bhavati bharata
abhyutthanam adharmasya
tadatmanam srjamy aham
[Bg. 4.7]

paritranaya sadhunam
vinasaya ca duskrtam
[Bg. 4.8]

So Krsna says, paritranaya sadhunam vinasaya ca duskrtam, yuge yuge sambhavami. So first of all we have to know who is a sadhu. He specifically meant paritranaya sadhunam. Sadhunam. Who is a sadhu? That sadhu is also described. Bhajate mam ananya-bhak sadhur eva sa mantavyaḥ;: [Bg. 9.30] "Those who are constantly engaged in my devotional service, they are sadhus." So Krsna comes to save the sadhus. But Krsna, being Absolute, either he saves the sadhus or kills the duskrtas, it is the same. It is the same because when Krsna kills somebody, he is also liberated immediately. Paritranaya sadhunam. Dharma-samsthapanarthaya. And he comes to reestablish the principles of religion. What is that principle of religion? That is stated by Krsna in the last paragraph of Bhagavad-gita, not last, in the last chapter. Sarva-dharman parityajya [Bg. 18.66]. Anything which... Dharma-samsthapanarthaya: "I come to reestablish the religious principles." But again He says, sarva-dharman parityajya, parityajya that any religion which does not teach how to surrender to God, that is not religion. Therefore He says, sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja [Bg. 18.66]. This is only religion. Now tell me if I am right or wrong?

Guest: What can I say? Then only when sadhus are attacked, then only...?

Prabhupada: No, no. You quoted from Bhagavad-gita; I am replying from Bhagavad-gita. You quoted from Bhagavad-gita, so your answer should be given from the Bhagavad-gita. You told me that Krsna or God comes when there is such and such adharma, so what is adharma, what is dharma, who is sadhu—these things should be understood. But generally, this movement is to create sadhus. So you have to give time. You have to cooperate. This incarnation of Krsna, Krsna and nama, Krsna's name, is the same. Abhinnatvam nama-naminoḥ;: "There is no difference between Krsna's name and Krsna." So you encourage this movement. You will see that there will be no more fighting. Krsna has come. Welcome Krsna. But if you noncooperate with Krsna, then how you'll get happiness? Krsna has already come by this Krsna consciousness movement. You receive Him. Yad yad acarati sresṭha [Bg. 3.21]. You are all respectable gentlemen. You accept it. Then others will follow. Tat tad evetaro janaḥ;. And if leading personalities of the society, they reject it, then how Krsna is welcome? How can you expect? (Hindi) Everyone should welcome this movement, Krsna consciousness movement. Then actually there will be dharma-samsthapanarthaya, paritranaya sadhunam. Everything will be done. Just like when Krsna was personally present, how many received Him? Only the Panḍavas and the gopis and the Vrndavana-lila is there. Nobody knew Him as Krsna. In the Battlefield of Kuruksetra, how many knew Him that He was Krsna? But everyone benefited. Everyone benefited. Everyone who died in the battlefield of Kuruksetra, they got salvation. That is stated in Bhisma's teachings. So they got the benefit, but not that everyone understood Krsna. Avajananti mam muḍha manusim tanum... [Bg. 9.11]. Many... Even nowadays there are so many scholars... They want swamis. They do not accept Krsna as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Even nowadays, what to speak of then? Even at the present moment. They are reading Bhagavad-gita, and they are trying to kill Bhagavan, Krsna. That's all. That is their business, killing... Kamsa's business. Kamsa was trying killing Krsna, always thinking, "how to kill Krsna?" So so many Bhagavad-gita commentators, scholars, their only business is how to drive away Krsna from Bhagavad-gita. That is their... They do not give on the personality of Krsna as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. I have several times told you. Even scholars like Dr. Radha-Krishnan, he says like that, "It is not to Krsna, person." Why? Why this demonic attitude? How you can get help from Krsna? That is... We are discussing now, daivi-sampat and asuri-sampat. Asuri-sampat means to kill Krsna. That's all, to wipe out Krsna from Bhagavad-gita and bring something else. Six hundred and sixty-four editions of Bhagavad-gita. This is going on. Prasada. (en