Room Conversation
12 Dec

Prabhupada: For young man, the more he sleeps, he is dead. He's a dead body. A child, if he overeats, if he overeats, then it is not bad for him. So anyone overeats, it is bad, specially for old man. And if child gets diarrhea, it is good for him. When a old man gets diarrhea, it is death for him. Child gets diarrhea means whatever poisons he has acquired he gets out. His health becomes renovated. And old man, if he gets diarrhea, he loses his vitality. Chele hange bastre guru hage mostre.(?) These are the para... What is called? Common sayings? Parables? Oh, it is the time. They are not yet ready?

Hamsaduta: No. If we get that house, Prabhupada...

Prabhupada: You can get.

Hamsaduta: We can get?

Prabhupada: Yes, why not? You have appealed to the king, and he is willing. Why can you not? What is the difficulty? Now it is your business how to induce, induce him. There is chance, ninety percent chance.

Hamsaduta: In which way will it be most helpful, in giving money personally or inducing others to give money? He will give money?

Prabhupada: Yes, otherwise...

Hamsaduta: How much money?

Prabhupada: Ten lakhs.

Hamsaduta: Ten lakhs. They can give the full amount?

Prabhupada: Yes, why not? This man... It is to be very carefully tackled. This king is going to die very soon. And as soon as the king dies, the queen's position is very precarious, almost finished. So if she becomes our president, she'll continue to keep her honor and prestige. That's a fact. She's a good lady. We have no objection to make her the president of the local center. And she is American. She will be able to tackle these American boys and girls with motherly affection. And we shall keep her always in good respect so that throughout her life she shall be honored all over as she was, as she was honored with her husband. This is a fact. So you have to convince her. And I think if the other ladies who are..., her daughter-in-law and granddaughters, like that... Because her son is dead. He was the king. This old man being invalid, his son was king. And I think that middle-aged woman was there. You have marked this? She might be her daughter-in-law and the young girls might be grandchildren. One of them, one of the daughters, girl, was very beautiful. So it appears that she comes from the royal family. Raja-kanya King's daughters are very beautiful. That is fabulous in India, king's daughter, raja-kanya. In India if anybody gets a good dowry and a beautiful wife it is said, arddhe rajatva eka raja-kanya(?) Actually we have seen in..., when Devaki was married to Vasudeva, how much dowry. Can anyone imagine now? So many thousands of horses, chariots, elephants, maidservants, all decorated with gold ornaments. One cannot imagine even at the present moment. Therefore they talk of "legends." But actually such dowries were given when a king's daughter was married. Not only royal family, even in ordinary family still, those who are rich, they spend lots of money to be married, either son's marriage or daughter's. When one spends lots of money during the marriage of one's daughter and son he is considered to be really rich man. That is the proof that he is rich man. So we can begin. He cannot rise, this, what is called, Muktananada? That's all right. Where he is?

Devotee: Muktananda, Prabhupada?

Prabhupada: Yes. You come here. Girls may sit here. You can sit comfortably on this. (Devotees come in and sit down.) What is that?

Kausalya: Her baby. Her child. Her son.

Prabhupada: Oh. So we were talking of Ajamila, a brahmana resident of Kanyakubja, presently known as Kanauj. So, kanyakubje dvijaḥ; kascid asit patir..., asit kascid dasi-patir ajamilaḥ;, namna nasṭa-sadacaro dasyaḥ; samsarga-dusitaḥ;. That, what is known as, at the present, prostitute, they were know as dasya, dasi. (aside:) Don't make sound, "cut, cut." Silent. Dasi... The ksatriya kings also, when they married, with dowry many maidservants would follow the queen. That was the ksatriya system. So Ajamila was the illegal husband of a prostitute, dasi, dasi-pati. Actually one should be husband of dharma-pati, religiously married, not a friend or a husband of illegal marriage. That is not allowed. Dasi-patir ajamilaḥ; namna... Ajamila namna. His name was Ajamila. Why the sound is in...? It is not possible to charge? "Cut, cut cut, cut." Nasṭa-sadacaraḥ;. Sadacara means good behavior. Why good behavior was lost? Dasyaḥ; samsarga-dusitaḥ;. Because he was associating with a prostitute, illegal sex. Therefore, anyone who wants to make progress in spiritual life, he must be sadacara. His behavior must be very regulated. Asadacari, unclean, nonregulated, cannot make any progress. If somebody says that "Whatever you like, you can do. There is no difference. You can imagine your own way..." This is going on nowadays. "Whatever you like, you can do. You can imagine your own way of self-realization." But that is not recommended in the Vedic literatures. One must be sadacara. This is the beginning of sadacara, to rise early in the morning, to cleanse, then chant, or chant the Vedic mantras or, simplified as in the present age, Hare Krsna mantra, maha-mantra. This is the beginning of sadacara. So sadacara means to become freed from sinful reaction. Unless one follows the regulative principles he cannot be freed. And unless one is fully freed from sinful reaction he cannot understand what is God. Those who are not in sadacara, regulative principles, for them... Just like animals, they are not expected to follow any... Of course, by nature they follow regulative principles. Still, but human being, having advanced consciousness, so instead of using it properly, they misuse the advanced consciousness and thus they become lower than animals. The animals, for want of advanced consciousness, cannot follow any regulative principles. But by nature they have got some regulative principle. A human being, advanced consciousness, instead of using it for advance in spiritual life they use it for sense gratification and thus they become lower than the animals. So as soon as one becomes irregulated, without any sadacara, then he doesn't care for any sinful activities for maintaining his body and soul together. He doesn't mind. Their philosophy is, what is called? "Existence is the first law of nature," or something like...

Guest (1): Self-preservation.

Prabhupada: Self-preservation. So self-preservation... They do not know what is self-preservation. That is another ignorance. They consider this body as the self. Their self-preservation means to keep this body. And that is also not possible. If you do not follow regulative principles, it is not possible to keep your body in good condition. That is also not possible. Those who do not follow the regulative principles, mostly they are diseased, some kind. We find in the medical, modern medical shop the customers are educated people. Mass of people, they are not customers in the medical shop. You'll find it. They are not so much diseased. In every gentleman's house, modern, you'll find so many bottles of medicine. But you won't find such medical bottles in any house of less educated persons. They are not so diseased. So this is one of the items. If you want to advance in spiritual life you must follow the regulative principles to rectify your mistakes in the past life and this present life. Without being freed from all contamination nobody can understand God. That is not possible. Bhagavad-gita says, yesam anta gatam papam: "One who has become completely freed from all kinds of sinful reaction," yesam tv anta-gatam papam jananam punya-karmanam, "Persons who are engaged in pious activities only," te, "such person," te dvandva-moha-nirmukta... [Bg. 7.28]. This life, the material life, is dvandva. Dvandva means fighting or quarreling. Every one of us has got nature for fighting with others unnecessarily. Even some people come here with a spirit of fighting with me. So this is called dvandva and moha. How this fighting spirit becomes developed? On account of illusion. What is that illusion? Accepting this body as self. So if one is contaminated by sinful activity—if he is in illusion, how he can..., illusion of accepting this body as self—what is the meaning of their self-realization? He's illusioned. He'll keep himself in all kinds of contaminated life, and artificially he thinks that by some kind of mystic meditation he'll be all right. This is going on. No. One must follow. Meditation, yogic meditation, is also possible when there is yama, niyama, asana, pranayama—the eight principles of yoga system. And nobody follows the eight principles of yoga system and simply sitting down and meditating, that will not help. The first two steps are yama, niyama, then asana, then pranayama, then pratyahara, then dhyana, then dharana, then samadhi. These are explained in the yogic sastra or Bhagavad-gita. So this man, although born of a brahmana father... Now, here it is said that nasṭa-sadacara. Although he is born of a brahmana father, his acara, his dealings for advancing in spiritual life...A brahmana is expected to be truthful, to be self-controlled, to be fully cognizant of spiritual life, practical application in life, jñanam, vijñanam, astikyam, to have complete faith in the statement of the sastras. That is... That is called astikyam. We, according to our Vedic system, we do not accept any other system of religion because we consider them nastika. That is the primary principle. Nastika means one who does not believe in the Vedas. He is called nastika. Not that he does not believe in God. One may believe in God, but one who does not believe in the Vedic literature, he is called nastika. Veda na maniya bauddha haila nastika. Lord Buddha, although he is accepted as incarnation of God, but because he defied the Vedic principles it is said, nindasi yajña-vidher ahaha sruti-jatam. Lord Buddha criticized the, I mean to say, sacrificial ceremonies because in the sacrificial ceremonies sometimes there is recommendation of killing an animal. But he was preaching nonviolence. So he criticized even the sacrifice in yajña. He criticized. Nindasi... But a Vaisnava is praying, "My dear Lord, you are defying the Vedic principles." He knows why the Lord is now defying the Vedic principles; therefore he is devotee. In spite of Lord Buddha's defying the Vedic principles, a devotee is offering him obeisances. Kesava dhrta-buddha-sarira jaya jagadisa hare. He knows the Lord, how He is playing, how He is bewildering the atheistic class of men. The atheistic class of men did not believe in God. Lord Buddha says, "Yes, you don't require to believe in God. There is no God. But you feel yourself that when you are attacked with violence you feel pain. Why should you offer to others?" Because his mission was to stop animal killing. Sadaya-hrdaya-darsita-pasu-ghatam. The Supreme Lord became too much compassionate when he saw that people are unnecessarily killing animals, as it is going on still. Instead of... At least those who are claiming Buddhist, they are killing animals. Bruce, is it not? Yes. But in the Buddhist religion there is no sanction for killing animals. Yes?

Guest (2): (Hindi)

Prabhupada: (Hindi) Muhammad, he also did not believe in the Vedic literature. But according to Vedic literature, anyone who does not believe in the Vedic literature, he is nastika. Just like the Mohammedans, they say, "Anyone who does not believe in Koran, he is kafir." The Christians say, "Anyone who does not believe in the Bible, they are heathens." That is there everywhere. Similarly, Lord Caitanya said that veda na maniya bauddha haila nastika. He is giving the definition because we have to follow the great personalities, great acaryas. That is our process. We do not make any research, or we do not make any statement made by us. We simply accept the injunctions given by great acaryas. Acaryopasanam. That is the process of Vedic system. Tad-vijñanartham sa gurum evabhigacchet [MU 1.2.12]. One must approach a spiritual master and learn from him. So whatever spiritual master says, that is accepted. Sadhu guru sastra vakya. Real evidence is, it must be stated in the scriptures, it must be explained by the spiritual master or saintly persons. That is evidence.

Guest (3): Sastra-vakya-pramana.

Prabhupada: Sastra-vakya-pramana. And it should be known through the spiritual master. Just like nowadays Bhagavad-gita is being interpreted in so many foolish ways because they do not accept explanation from the authority. They become themselves authorities. Therefore misused. That is not explanation. Somebody is explaining that Kuruksetra means this body, pañca-panḍava means the senses. These are all nonsense. You have to accept Bhagavad-gita as it is. When you cannot understand, you should get it explained by your spiritual master. Therefore one has to accept a spiritual master to understand. Tad-vijnanartham. In order to understand that transcendental science one must approach a bona fide spiritual master. That is injunction. So here it is said that kanyakubje dvijaḥ;. Dvijaḥ; means he was offered the sacred thread. That means he was born in a brahmana family. Janmana jayate sudraḥ;. Everyone is born a sudra, a foolish. Sudra means a foolish man who simply laments. That is the real meaning of sudra. Anyone who has no intelligence, he is sudra. We also generally say, gadah, less intelligent. So brahmanas, ksatriyas, vaisyas, they are called higher caste. According to their... Brahmana, first-class because his intelligence is first-class. Ksatriya, his intelligence is second-class. Vaisya, his intelligence is third-class. And sudra means fourth-class. And less than sudra, they are called pañcama, canḍala. They are accepted as animals, those who are less than sudras. This is the Vedic system. Now, here it is said that this Ajamila, dvija... Dvija means he was properly initiated, second birth. First birth by father, mother, is sudra. Anyone, even if he is born in a brahmana family, the natural birth is considered as sudra. But if there is garbhadhana-samskara, then he's accepted as born brahmana, born brahmana. Still, one is born brahmana, he has to undergo the samskaras. So our, this... Now it is known as Hindu society although the "Hindu" word is given by the Mohammedans. It is called sanatana-dharma or varnasrama society, who very strictly follow the four divisions, social divisions of varna—brahmana, ksatriya, vaisya, sudra—and four divisions of spiritual life—brahmacari, grhastha, vanaprastha, and sannyasa. So our, the Vedic system is called varnasrama. Varna means the social order. Asrama means spiritual division. Therefore those who are following strictly the Vedic principle, that family life is called grhastha asrama. Asrama. Whenever you add this word asrama there is spiritual significance. So all the division-brahmacari, grhastha, vanaprastha, and sannyasa—they are known as asrama. Anyone can understand asrama. As soon as there is asrama that means "Here some men, saintly persons, spiritually advanced persons, lives." That is asrama. So that asrama, when a student follows the regulative principles, he is supposed to be situated in brahmacari asrama. A householder living with family, husband, wife, children, if they are following strictly the regulative principles—grhastha asrama. Similarly, retired life, if he is following the regulative principles—the vanaprastha asrama. Similarly, a renounced life, sannyasa, if he is following the regulative principles, that is sannyasa asrama. Not that imitating somebody, I put on a saffron dress and I become a sannyasi and by begging I live. This has killed the whole Hindu society or the sanatana-dharma society. Unqualified persons, they do not know the regulative principles but for solution of economic problem they dress themselves. This is Kali-yuga. They will pass on simply by the dress without any knowledge. So here also, although Ajamila was born of a brahmana father and he was strictly following the regulative principles of a brahmana—that will be stated—but he fell. He fell in love with a prostitute And therefore his characters were lost. Nasṭa-sadacaraḥ;. The reason is why? Dasyaḥ; samsarga-dusitaḥ;. Because he associated with a prostitute, therefore his all regulative principles became lost. And as soon as you are lost of regulative principles then you take to all kinds of sinful activities. The regulative principles will keep you on the standard of life. If you give it up, then immediately you fall down, maya. So this man Ajamila, because he was duracara, nasṭa-sadacara, lost of all regulative principles on account of associating with a prostitute, then, although he was born of a brahmana family, he became... His livelihood was juha(?), bandy-aksaiḥ;, cheating and stealing. Bandy-aksaiḥ; kaitavais cauryaiḥ;. Cauryaiḥ; means stealing. Garhitam vrttim asthitaḥ;. This kind of profession is garhita. Garhitam means... Hita means beneficial. But this profession is garhita because it is not beneficial. Ultimately he will be punished either by the king's law or by the God's law. I can escape the king's law by doing something which is abominable but I cannot escape God's law. That is not possible. Therefore, although he is thinking that "Now I am cheating this person," or "I am stealing and getting some profit," that is not good for him. Just like a man is killing some man, another man. So that is not good for him because as soon as he will be arrested he'll be hanged. So they think that "I am cheating the state, I am cheating God, and I can go on gratifying my senses by all these activities," but that is stated in the sastra as garhita. Garhita means it is not beneficial for you." Na sadhu manye yato atmano 'yam. In another place it is said, "These kinds of activities, vikarma, is not good ultimately." Na sadhu manye yato atmano 'yam asann api klesada asa dehaḥ; [SB 5.5.4]. Although atma, the self, is different from this body—that is the first lesson in spiritual life—still, this body, although temporary, but as soon as you accept this material body you will have to suffer according to the body. If you get a dog's body you suffer according to that. If you get a man's body... Suffering will be there more or less as soon as you get this material body. Therefore Ṛsabhadeva said, na sadhu manye: "You are acting abominable. It is not good because you are already suffering in this body." Otherwise why you are stealing? You are in want of money. You are suffering. Therefore necessity is now law. Therefore you are accepting. Even you know that stealing is bad, still, you are accepting it because that is a suffering. So for some of your activities in the past life you are now suffering, and if you go on, continuing committing this nonsense, then you will again, you will have to again accept a body and you'll suffer. Therefore garhitam. There are so many things to know but these things are not discussed nowadays. Very cheap thing: "You can do whatever you like. You simply meditate and become God, that's all." So much cheating is going on everywhere, all over the w

orld. So-called yogis, they go, "Oh, you meditate. You are... And as soon as you realize, you are God, within six months." No. Therefore in this age the only method... It is a concession to the fallen people of this world, this Hare Krsna mantra. They 'll not be able to follow all the regulative principles; therefore they must commit all kinds of abominable activities. Under the circumstances the sastra or God has given a concession that you simply chant Hare Krsna mantra and gradually you will be elevated to the highest position of spiritual life. Other things you cannot follow. You are already fallen. So you take to this process of chanting Hare Krsna mantra without any offense. And in order to save yourself from the offenses, a little austerity that you cannot have illicit sex life. Why should you have illicit sex life? Everyone's need is sex life. Ahara-nidra-bhaya-maithunam. These are the bodily needs. So sastra has sanctioned, "All right. You can live peacefully by married life and have sex life for children, good children." That is allowed. But why should you have illicit sex life? What is this? Irresponsible life. "I shall not take responsibility of family life, and I shall go on as so-called bachelor and have illicit life." But that is not good. That is garhitam. Na sadhu manye: "This is not good." This is the advice of Vedic literature. Ultimately you'll suffer. You are thinking at the present moment that you are avoiding suffering because family life is very responsible life. So if you think that family life is responsible, yes, it is responsible life. If you don't take, if you cannot take the responsibility, then remain as a brahmacari. Why should you marry? Yes. If you practice brahmacarya, then you become free, seventy-five percent freedom immediately. But you do not want to undergo the austerities of a brahmacari, and still, you want to remain as an unmarried man. Everywhere in the world it is going on. This is increasing. That is stated here, sadacara. Nasṭa-sadacaro dasyaḥ; samsarga-dusitaḥ;. The illicit connection with man and woman will certainly make him abominable, fallen down to this abominable life. I... When I was... In my younger days, when I was in business, so I was to take agency one of big company, Smith's Transit Company. So they had to... I had to give some guarantee of my honesty. So in that program the question was whether married or unmarried. Because unmarried man mostly become dishonest. So that inquiry was there, "Whether he is married?" Married man cannot be dishonest because he has got responsibility. If he is arrested he will be insulted in his family. His family members will be in difficulty. Therefore he does not commit dishonesty very easily unless it is absolutely... But that should not be done. But unmarried man, because he has got no responsibility, he commits all kinds of sinful activity. That's a fact. Therefore in our Krsna consciousness movement we do not allow such illicit sex life, no. You must get yourself married. And practically, we are seeing, that is very effective and that is going on nicely. All right. (Hindi)

Guest (4): (Hindi) Yesterday I had a talk with Bhagavati Hema.

Prabhupada: Accha.

Guest (4): She told me to come for an interview.

Prabhupada: Oh. So your interview is finished?

Guest (4): I have got most of my queries and answers but they remain, some.

Prabhupada: So you can inquire. But sometimes wrong report is published.

Guest (4): People releases wrong report. I am a responsible man, sir.

Prabhupada: Yes, but some irresponsible report is published in that paper, that "Bhaktivedanta Swami says that Krsna is everything and nothing." That...

Guest (4): The very reading was abominable.

Prabhupada: That's it.

Guest: (unintelligible)

Guest (4): I really couldn't believe it.

Prabhupada: No, in the reading matter he said that, "He was trained by his father to worship Radha-Krsna, to observe Rathayatra, and he was taught mrdanga." These are all true. But anyone who worships Radha-Krsna and who follows the Hindu ceremonies, Rathayatra, how he can say that "Hinduism nothing"? Just see how rascaldom. This is contradiction.

Guest (4): Maharaja, there is reason for that. Because that paper, the owner of that press is a Jain. And the Jains have a natural antipathy towards the ...?...

Prabhupada: Oh, just see. So how biased man can report? So therefore we are avoiding reports.

Guest (4): (Hindi?)

Prabhupada: No, tape may be. But he also taped, that man. But he has misrepresented.

Guest (4): I should like to ask one question, sir.

Prabhupada: All right, you can ask. But kindly publish rightly. Don't...

Guest (4): Yes, yes.

Guest (5): (unintelligible)

Prabhupada: [break] Still you want to inquire from her?

Guest (4): From the entire business.

Prabhupada: So you can inquire from me. In my presence, you can inquire from me. Because, after all, they are my students, they may not be able to reply thoroughly. So if you have got any inquiries you can ask from me.

Guest (4): Yes. Yes. Maharaja, I am a teacher of Sanskrit and English in one of the higher secondary schools here and I am very much interested...

Prabhupada: So you join us. Simply lip sympathy will not do. Just like these boys and girls, they have joined wholeheartedly. So I do not find any Indians.

Guest (4): I am ready to join but for my family liabilities. Is there is some...?

Prabhupada: So you can join. You are family man, so it is not that we have no family men. We have got many family men. Now, they are all family. These girls, they have got a husband. And some of them, they are living separately. Just like one of my students, Professor Howard Wheeler. He is married man. He is living separately. Not separately. He is also conducting our, one establishment, New Vrindaban. So it is not that one has to live with us. He can live separately also, but his whole life is dedicated to Krsna. That is wanted.

Guest (4): I would like to live with you and tour with you.

Prabhupada: So why not come and live and tour with me? Who forbids you? But it is not possible to pay anything for your family expenditure. That is difficulty. We cannot pay anything but you can live with your family. That responsibility you can take. But I cannot pay you. That's not possible. Because we are maintaining by collecting alms. In that case it is not possible to pay something. There is... [break] It is selling all over Europe. (Hindi)

Guest (4): Maharaja, could you employ me in some...?

Prabhupada: Yes, employ, I can employ in any way. But there is no payment.

Guest (4): I am M.A. in English, M.A. in Hindi. I am trying to devote myself to this work...

Prabhupada: So please come.

Guest (4): But for my family liabilities...

Prabhupada: What amount you want for your family, minimum?

Guest (4): Five hundred a month.

Prabhupada: That is not possible. Yes, you require five hundred. I know that. That is not much. To maintain a family nowadays five hundred rupees is not much but where is the money? How can I pay you?

Guest (4): I would be a very good asset to your publications work.

Prabhupada: That I know. You are qualified, educated boy. You can do it. But one thing I can do, that you can live with your family just like they are living. That I can arrange. And whatever food we can provide you have to accept. We can... We can arrange for the education of your children also, everything. But we cannot pay anything. That is not possible. We can take charge of the husband and wife. We can take charge of your children. But it is not possible to pay. And besides that, when there is question of payment the service is not good because the payment means he is serving the money. He is not serving the cause. (tape of kirtana plays for a second)

Guest (4): His old mother listens to these chantings. [break]

Prabhupada: No, no, he has appeared to establish dharma. So what is the dharma according...

Guest (4): Sastra-dharma. Sastra means Arya-samaji-pratisá¹­ha...

Prabhupada: So what is that sastra veda dharma?

Guest (4): Vedic dharma.

Prabhupada: So what is that? Explain it practically.

Guest (4): Yama, niyama, samadhi, dhyana...

Prabhupada: No, that is the process. So what is the end of dharma?

Guest (4): Self-realization.

Prabhupada: What is that self?

Guest (4): That is to be realized. (laughter)

Prabhupada: This is going on. One has no idea what is dharma, what is the end, but he becomes, "Oh, I have appeared for establishing dharma." And when he is asked, "What is that dharma?" "It is to be realized." Then what you have realized that you are preaching dharma?

Guest (4): Sadacara...

Prabhupada: Sadacara is the means. Sadacara is not the end.

Guest (4): Can I know as to what made these young people want to leave the affluent present society and join this...

Prabhupada: Because they are sincere, seeking after...

Guest (4): Pardon, sir?

Prabhupada: They are sincere, sincerely seeking after. Their material business is finished because they have enjoyed enough of material things. Now there is spiritual inquiry. That is natural. When our material necessities are complete, we enjoy, then next stage is spiritual hankering. And that is explained in the Vedanta-sutra, athato brahma jijñasa. After finishing karma-kanḍiya life... Karma-kanḍiya life means you do pious activities and enjoy life. That is called karma-kanḍiya. So... But the fact is that even you get your birth in a very rich family, you cannot avoid the sufferings of this material nature. Just like yesterday we had an interview with Holkar(?), His Highness Holkar, the old gentleman. So he was a king. He has got very beautiful wife, very beautiful family, very palatial building, but he is not happy, we saw. So the foolish people, they do not know that in this material life there is no happiness. They hanker after these palatial buildings, the motor cars, the bank balance, and so on, so on. Therefore those who have enjoyed all these things but have not become happy, there is another inquiry: "How to become happy?" [break] ...say America, they have enjoyed material life. Their children have enjoyed material life to the fullest extent but they are not happy. Therefore they have come to this spiritual life.

Guest (4): Last night in your learned discourse you said that you're supposed to found a temple in this city.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Guest (4): But you preach the Vedic marga. Don't you think that instead of building a temple, asramas in this brahmacari model would be...

Prabhupada: Yes. And without temple the brahmacaris will be vyabhicaris. (laughter)

Guest (4): That asrama becomes a temple.

Prabhupada: Yes, that we... Wherever we have got a center we have got a temple and at the same time teaching. These two things must go parallel. If simply dry teachings go on and there is no temple worship, then gradually he will glide down to vyabhicari instead of brahmacari.

Guest (4): Besides the chanting Hare Krsna and arousing(?) this Krsna consciousness in the people, what else are you doing to establish the way...?

Prabhupada: That you have seen this morning. We are teaching every day the sastra. They are not simply chanting. Their chanting is based on understanding. Therefore they are sticking.(?)

Guest (4): Maharaja, the educational system of this country has so much deteriorated. I have been studying. I see young people of different colleges, boys and girls taking to LSD even in this city and doing to all sorts of nonsense. What is the best...?

Prabhupada: That I was explaining. As soon as there is indulgence in illicit sex life, all bad qualification will come. That I was explaining.

Guest (4): And Maharaja, what are your impressions of the youth of this country?

Prabhupada: I have no estimation of this country or that country. I know everywhere, because spiritual education is lacking, everywhere the boys and girls are fallen.

Guest (4): Is secularism coming in way of spreading spiritual education?

Prabhupada: Secularism is a bogus thing. You see? That is an indulgence, "Whatever you like, you can do. Whatever religion you follow, that's all..." No. That is not good. The state should be responsible for the spiritual progress of the citizens. Now, especially in our country, we say it is Hindustan, Bharatavarsa. So we are not giving the bharatiya or Hindu spiritual cultural education. So that's a great loss of the secular state.

Guest (4): Do you think that the present democratic system will be able to impart a spiritual education?

Prabhupada: No.

Guest (4): Then what system do you advocate?

Prabhupada: Of course, so far Vedic culture is concerned, they advocated monarchy because the one man's training, a good king guided by the brahminical culture, although it was autocratic sometimes, but because the king was very cultured there was no possibility of doing any harm to the citizens. But democracy means simply they are given the post by votes, and they may be all rascals. Then what they can think of good to the citizens?

Guest (4): Maharaja, don't you think that monarchy (unclear)

Prabhupada: No, that is also not possible. And therefore we are training people to be Krsna conscious. And when the Krsna conscious people will elect Krsna conscious leaders there will be peace and prosperity. And now, because the minority is Krsna conscious, they cannot elect Krsna conscious leaders and therefore havoc is being played.

Guest (4): Maharaja, do you think the West is being Hinduized?

Prabhupada: The "Hinduized" is a sectarian view. We are not...

Guest (4): I mean this, being brought up on sanatana culture.

Prabhupada: Vedic ways. Yes. You can... The perfect word is Vedic civilization.

Guest (4): Vedic civilization.

Prabhupada: Yes. That is original civilization. Out of Vedic civilization there are so many outcome now, but if you go originally to the Vedic civilization, that is Krsna consciousness. In the Bhagavad-gita you will find the word is vedais ca sarvair aham eva vedyam [Bg. 15.15]. That means to follow the Vedic way of life means to become Krsna conscious.

Guest (5): (unclear)

Prabhupada: Yes, Vedic way means they are following principles, regulative principles.

Guest (5): So what principle?

Prabhupada: That I was explaining. That is a big principle. But it has been shortened, shortened in this age. Harer nama harer nama harer namaiva kevalam, kalau nasty eva nasty eva nasty eva gatir anyatha [Cc. Adi 17.21]. In the Kali-yuga you cannot reform the whole population by any other means except this harer nama. Therefore we are introducing Hare Krsna movement everywhere.

Guest (4): Maharaja, do the Western and Eastern societies respond differently to this call...

Prabhupada: No. You cannot say that. Two plus two equal to four everywhere, East and West. There is no difference, East and West. It is scientific. It is vijñana. So when you call of, talk of science, there is no difference of understanding in the East and West. The same thing is understood.

Guest (4): Maharaja, (Hindi)

Prabhupada: Yes. Varnasrama-dharma... That is stated in the Bhagavad-gita. Catur-varnyam maya srsṭam guna-karma-vibhagasaḥ; [Bg. 4.13]. Qualified. Therefore we want qualified brahmanas, qualified ksatriyas. At the present moment, without being qualified, they are passing on as brahmana, ksatriya. That is not varnasrama. Without being qualified they are all sudras, all canḍalas. But when they are properly trained and qualified, then it is varnasrama, real varnasrama.

Guest (4): Where are they to be trained, then? How are they...

Prabhupada: That we are proposing. When we open a center we shall train anyone. It doesn't matter whether he is born in a sudra family or brahmana family. Just like they are born in a different family other than brahmana but they are now brahmana because after being trained up.

Guest (4): (Hindi) ...regard, you said that monarchy and democracy, both are systems which cannot help this cause. Then...

Prabhupada: No, why cannot help? If... Monarchy means the king was properly trained up. Similarly, in the democracy, if people are properly trained up, then they will vote for nice men and there will be nice government. Now, because the people are not trained, they are practically asses. The votes of the asses, what has the meaning? If the majority are asses, then one ass will be elected. That's all. So when the executive head is an ass what benefit he can do to the people?

Guest (5): I see.

Guest (4): Maharaja, you said that you had been misrepresented in that report which appeared yesterday in one of the dailies of the cities.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Guest (4): How could you like to mend your statement?

Prabhupada: My statements are clear there but he has mis-stated in the heading with ulterior purpose.

Guest (4): I think he has...

Prabhupada: Young men of cities, they may come to me and be trained up in the spiritual life, Krsna consciousness. (Hindi) So long you'll ask me to keep here, provided you are serious of taking training from me...

Guest (4): I am very much serious.

Prabhupada: Then you are welcome. I am asking young men like you to come and join me.

Guest (5): (unintelligible)

Prabhupada: Aiye. Yes. I am speaking in English because my students, they cannot understand Hindi. But if educated young boys like you come they will be also able to understand English, so there will be no difficulty.

Guest (4): Thank you, Maharaja.

Prabhupada: Hare Krsna. Replay little. [break] Please try to understand the philosophy. Thank you. Yes. (Hindi) So you are welcome. You come. Live with us with your family. We take charge of you. But if you ask some salary, that is not possible. That is not possible.

Guest (4): I have my sisters and mother and father to support.

Prabhupada: So let them come, all, and live with me. (Hindi) That's nice. (Hindi). That I can take. But if you want money, that is not possible.

Guest (5): No, I don't want money.

Prabhupada: Then you come with your whole family. (Hindi) [break]

Prabhupada: Don't be dependent. Be dependent on Krsna. To live here means to become dependent on Krsna. That is there(?). You have to become dependent either to your master or to your boss or to your brother or to somebody else. But if you become dependent on Krsna your whole problem is solved. Yes. Hare Krsna. [break] Don't consider about money. (Hindi) ...did not care for the family. For political emancipation they sacrificed so much.

Guest (5): Perhaps they are the people, the older followers of...

Prabhupada: Not always these people. Not all. (Hindi) We have created this problem. (Hindi) [break] You'll get your bread, bara, and somebody will fill up your belly. (Hindi) It is not possible. (Hindi)

nityo nityanam cetanas cetananam
eko bahunam vidadhati kaman
(Kaá¹­ha Upanisad 2.2.13)

These are Vedic injunctions. You know all this; then why don't you believe in this? [break] (Hindi) So it is coming? (Hindi) [break] We must have faith. Adau sraddha (Hindi) You should be prepared even there is difficulty. Just like when I took sannyasa I gave up my family life. In the beginning there was so much difficulty. I was living alone. But I never cared for it. Hare Krsna.

Guest (6): Swamiji, suppose one wants to become life member... They can't pay whole money in one charge. They want to pay in installments.

Prabhupada: That's nice. We shall accept. Oh, yes.

Guest (6): They told me that it is impossible for them to pay whole sum.

Prabhupada: That doesn't matter. Let him pay by...

Guest (6): They are ready to pay two or three installments.

Prabhupada: That's all right. It is accepted. Please bring them.

Guest (6): One man, that Bengali person, he is coming. He wants to become member but he is telling that "I am unable to pay whole..."

Prabhupada: No, no, no. That doesn't matter. Let him pay by installments.

Guest (6): I told him I will ask you, whether you are ready or not.

Prabhupada: (Hindi)

Guest (6): He is coming daily, that man.

Prabhupada: Yes, yes. Mr. Chakravarti or Chatterjee. Yes.

Guest (6): Chatterjee. He is scared of people.(?)

Prabhupada: He is good boy. Yes. No. He had the cap on his head, sweater, cap and pant.

Guest (6): Yesterday he was asking me to ask you.

Prabhupada: Where is my stick? Give me a glass of water. [break]

Guest (6): I am ready to pay installments.

Prabhupada: Then there is no problem. You come and join me. If you want...

Guest (6): Let me get degree.

Prabhupada: You get your degree. That's all right. Finish your education. If I'll be able to open a center, nice center, I shall call so many people, "Come and live with me and be trained up." I am just writing one advertisement. We shall have to publish it. Just read it.

Hamsaduta: "Wanted: qualified brahmanas for preaching Bhagavad-gita all over the world. (laughter) Candidates accepted without any discrimination of caste and creed. Apply ISKCON."

Yamuna: Oh, ho, ho, Prabhupada!

Hamsaduta: "Life member can send any member of his family for being trained up as a qualified brahmana who can preach Bhagavad-gita as it is all over the world." You're going to put this in the newspaper?

Prabhupada: Huh? Yes.

Hamsaduta: Oh, that will be nice. (laughter)

Prabhupada: Yes.

Yamuna: Oh, that's a wonderful notice, Prabhupada. It's so wonderful.

Prabhupada: We have to preach all over the world. We require so many men, so many boys, girls, men we want.

Hamsaduta: I should send this to the GBC members...

Hamsaduta: the West, and they should put ads in the paper.

Prabhupada: Yes. Let us have application.

Hamsaduta: Should I copy it down?

Prabhupada: Yes, you take it. You take it. Type it.

Himavati: Prabhupada, in Calcutta Madhudvisa advertised like that at one meeting, and the next day a man came...

Prabhupada: Only one man?

Hamsaduta: Two men came.

Himavati: With his six children and his wife, they were prepared, "Let us live here. We will see."

Prabhupada: Yes.

Himavati: And another old man that was so old that he was ready to die. (laughter)

Prabhupada: Then you write, "Young men." No, even old man, there is no question. That we can test, whether he is able, he is a qualified brahmana. First of all he is qualified brahmana.

Himavati: You were going to Peruda(?) that day, so we said, "When we return, then you come and join us." But when we returned they didn't come. They changed their mind.

Prabhupada: Yes. They cannot. They cannot. Only young men can join. Old men cannot join. (Hindi)

Guest (6): Asoka Kumar.

Prabhupada: Oh, yes, I remember. So please, after finishing your education you come and join this great movement. They are joining Communist movement, this movement, that movement. Why not a real genuine movement for the welfare of the whole?

Guest (6): I am not joining any...

Prabhupada: No, I mean to say...

Guest (6): I want to join...

Prabhupada: Generally they join. Generally they join.

Guest (6): My brother also agrees to stay with you.

Prabhupada: Oh, that's nice.

Guest (6): From today I am ready to join you.

Prabhupada: No, you finish your education. That will be a good qualification.

Guest (6): Why not you are paying a visit in Lakhpur(?). There is a very big Gita Mandir.

Prabhupada: Everywhere there is Gita Mandir. Here there is also big Gita Mandir.

Guest (6): No, there... Here they have mixture of many gods. Not like that. There is only one Gita, and all, the whole temple, belongs to Gita and nothing else.

Prabhupada: So if they invite, I can go. Why don't you ask them to invite us? Then we can go immediately.

Guest (6): Whole temple there is a pracara(?) Gita.

Prabhupada: But how many preachers they have produced?

Guest (6): You must be knowing that Vidyananda, Swami Vidyananda.

Prabhupada: Oh, he's a great nonsense.

Guest (6): Oh, no.

Prabhupada: I know.

Guest (6): He has constructed that from Gujarat. He's a Gujarati.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Guest (6): He constructed a temple there.

Prabhupada: I have seen in Ahmedabad his temple. He established one deity, a woman shape, and there is no Krsna. "Gita." "Gita" means a woman. So I don't think he has full understanding of Gita. He has money; he has spent. That's all. But he does not understand Gita. Gita means unless one takes Krsna as the Supreme Personality of Godhead he does not understand anything of Gita. That is the test. He may advertise himself as scholar or this or that, but our only test is whether he accepts Krsna, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja [Bg. 18.66]. That is the test. Is that person accepting Krsna as the Supreme Personality of Godhead? He himself accepts that "I am God." Is it not? Therefore he's a foolish. He is squandering money, public money. That's all. That is his business. He might have some qualification to collect money, but he does not know what is Krsna.

Guest (6): He's all (unclear).

Prabhupada: But I think he is dead.

Guest (6): He is dead now or he... Sadhanananda is dead, Swami Sadhananda.

Prabhupada: I know. So that is the test. That is the test. Therefore it is a revolutionary movement. Even so-called followers of Gita, they will be caught up by this movement as rascals. Because the real purpose of Gita they do not know. Real purpose of Gita is to know Krsna, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That you will find in the Bhagavad-gita. Sarvam etad rtam manye yan mam vadasi madhava [Bg. 10.14]. And Arjuna says that "Whatever You have said, they're all right and I accept them in toto without any revision." So Krsna says that "I am the Supreme Personality of Godhead." One who does not understand Krsna as the Supreme Person, what he has read Gita? He is useless. Srama eva hi kevalam [SB 1.2.8]. Simply has labored. That's all. That is the test. Don't you agree to this point? So anyone who does not accept Krsna as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, he has no knowledge of Gita. He immediately becomes foolish. That is our test. So Muktananda, what do you think?

Muktananda: Yes, Prabhupada.

Prabhupada: Yes. That is the test, whether he has understood. In the Seventh Chapter,

mayy asakta-manaḥ; partha
yogam yuñjan mad-asrayaḥ;
asamsayam samagram mam
yatha jñasyasi tac chrnu
[Bg. 7.1]

"Anyone... How one simply by concentrating his mind upon Me," mayy asakta, "with asakti..." Asakti means attachment, love. Mayy asakta-manaḥ;. Mind attached to Krsna in love. Yogam yuñjan mad-asrayaḥ;. And performing the bhakti-yoga, mad-asrayaḥ;, under the disciplinary action by a bona fide spiritual master, mad-asrayaḥ;. Asamsayam samagram mam: "Then he can understand without any doubt and fully what I am." That means one who has not understood Krsna as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, he has not found the yoga properly. And why? That is mad-asrayaḥ;, he does not follow the disciplic succession. Mad asrayaḥ;. And in the beginning, in Fourth Chapter it is said, evam parampara-praptam [Bg. 4.2]. So these foolish persons, they do not follow all these principles; therefore they cannot understand Bhagavad-gita. Anyone... We say... It may appear to be very strong word but that's a fact. (Hindi) That's a strong word, that's all right, but he's a chor. (Hindi) Strong language used here... (Hindi)

Guest (6): (unclear)... From the very day I saw this movement, I have intent only in Krsna, not in any other movement.

Prabhupada: So that is our movement. Wherever we go, we find out sincere persons, immediately attract. Yes. But if he's not sincere, we cannot attract. If he's sincere, immediately attract. That is the value of this movement. All my students, they were attracted only because they were sincere. Anyone sincere in seeking after the Absolute Truth will be attracted.

Guest (6): I am not getting ...(unclear)

Prabhupada: Ekagra. Ekagra. Yogam yuñjan mad-asrayaḥ;, therefore it is said. "One has to perform this bhakti-yoga under My representative." Mad-asrayaḥ;.

Guest (6): I am very grateful to you.

Prabhupada: And there is Narottama dasa Thakura-Prarthana. Asraya laiya bhaje, krsna nahi tare tyage: "One who takes asraya, shelter of a devotee, Krsna does not give him up. Krsna accepts him." Yasya prasadad bhagavat-prasadaḥ;... **. Because if that person who is giving shelter, if he's pleased, Krsna is immediately... If he recommends a fool, "Oh, Krsna, here is a devotee," Krsna will accept immediately. It doesn't matter whether he's a fool or rascal. Because he is recommended by representative, he will be accepted. Yasya pra... This is the meaning of yasya prasadad bhagavat-pra... Without his recommendation there is no entry in Krsna's kingdom. Yasya-prasadad na gatiḥ; kuto 'pi. If he displeases Krsna's representative he has no entrance to the Krsna's kingdom, however learned he may be or whatever he may be. Immediately rejected. In a business office, suppose a secretary is there. A clerk does not accept the order of the secretary. Immediately he should be dismissed. In my personal experience, when I was young manager in a big chemical concern, one correspondent clerk, he disobeyed me. I reported to the head boss. He immediately came and he said, "Get out immediately from the office." And he wanted to plead in so many ways. Said, "No, I don't want. If you don't go out, then I shall call my doorman. He will forcibly get you out. Get out." I was sorry because this man is dismissed immediately, but he took. Disobedient... "Obedience is first discipline." So if Krsna's representative is disobeyed—"Get out immediately." Krsna is very strict.

Guest (6): (unclear) ...From tomorrow he was not able to get (unclear)

Prabhupada: Yes. Just see. Yes. Therefore in our system Vaisnavaparadha is the greatest offense, to commit offense at the lotus feet of a Vaisnava, and spiritual master is to be considered the first Vaisnava. If there is aparadha, that is great, greatest offense. That will spoil the whole spiritual life. These are stated in Caitanya-caritamrta. In Teachings of Lord Caitanya you'll find.

Guest (6): In yesterday's paper I read that somebody donated some land to you.

Prabhupada: Yes. No. He has proposed to donate; not he has done. Where you learned this?

Guest (6): In that (unclear)

Prabhupada: Yes, somebody has promised. Somebody has promised.

Guest (6): And it will (unclear) Radha-Krsna mandir, I will possibly able to get (unclear)

Prabhupada: Yes, why not?

Guest (6): Swamiji, you are here still.

Prabhupada: But if somebody gives me land I may go on staying here.

Guest (6): No, no, father and mother, they are forcing me to leave you all in my home.

Prabhupada: Where it is?

Guest (6): It is nearby.

Prabhupada: Your father, mother, cannot come here?

Guest (6): They want you to come.

Revatinandana: They've come here before.

Prabhupada: Oh. (end)