Room Conversation
Montreal
16 Jul

Prabhupada: Very soon we shall have our own publication. Macmillan Company. (pause) What is your report?

Devotee: I had a rough day today.

Prabhupada: Huh?

Devotee: I didn't get any new members today. I went all over... I went over to McGill, and not very many teachers, professors there know about the temple, especially the chemistry professors. I don't think chemistry professors go too well with Krsna consciousness.

Prabhupada: No. Every... You have to convince them that chemistry or philosophy or anything, without Krsna consciousness, it is all useless. Svakarmana tam abhyarcya samsiddhim labhate param. That verse I was explaining, that

ataḥ; pumbhir dvija-sresṭha
varnasrama-vibhagasaḥ;
svanusá¹­hitasya dharmasya
samsiddhir hari-tosanam
[SB 1.2.13]

Test for... (pause) Oh, so many?

Govinda dasi: Earlier you said you wanted it.

Prabhupada: Huh? So he is recording there?

Govinda dasi: Oh, I thought you wanted a dictaphone? If not, I can...

Devotee: It must be better if you recorded it, something I...

Prabhupada: Hm? Hm? What is that?

Devotee: I think a tape recorder is better than a dictaphone because I think a tape recording is better.

Prabhupada: Tape recording is going on?

Devotee: Yes.

Prabhupada: You can sit down. So everyone is working. Never mind in whatever occupation one is engaged. That doesn't matter. But one has to test whether he is becoming successful. Because everyone wants success. We are not animals that without any success we shall work hard labor. That is animals' business. Just like several times I have given the example, dophara gadha, the ass of the washerman. That kind of business and work is no use. Dophara gadha, ass of the washerman. Here, of course, you have no experience. In India there is a class who are called washermen. In India there are different castes. Washerman, a class; barber, a class. I mean to say... So many departmental. So each and every one, there is a class who take up that work. Sweeper, a class. All the necessities. The clerk, even clerk, there is a class; priest, there is a class; the fighter, there is a class. That is nice arrangement. In India... And florists, there is a class, florist. Their business is simply to supply flower. Fisherman there is a class; butcher, there is a class. Just like we have got a temple, now we require potter. Potter, there is a class. In Jagannatha temple the arrangement is that... One does not know since how long... (someone enters) Come on. In Jagannatha temple... Sit down. Jagannatha temple, the prasadam is cooked every day in new earthen pot. No old pot is used. Once used, it is thrown away. Formerly, this was the system in India. Even dishes, once used, it is thrown away. No washing. Even golden dishes, silver dishes, once used, it is thrown away. And now golden dishes, there is no use of golden dishes, neither nobody throws it away, but that was the system. Now the earthen dishes... Just like china clay dishes, this is considered impure because it is repeatedly used. In India, those who are strict Hindus, earthen dishes, once used, it will be thrown away. Clay dishes. So this is china clay dish. It is not to be used again. It is thrown away. Just like you have got paper plates and glass here. You eat it and throw it away. Similarly, India... Now it is being introduced, these paper dishes, gradually, but from very old time, refreshment or foodstuff supplied in clay dishes, and after eating, it is thrown away. So there is a potter class, who flourish. They sell their products. Just like in your country also, so many things are thrown away so that the manufacturer get chance to sell again. So everyone has got a particular type of profession. The potter, the washerman, and the florist, the grain dealer, the silver or gold dealer, the banker, and... Everything. And the priest, and the warrior. So even in India still, there is no difficulty for draftboard. There is a class, ksatriya; they will be very glad to be recruited as soldier. They are very strong. Jat. They are called jat, Gurkha. They don't like any other occupation. Fighting they like. The Sikhs. The Sikhs they are jat class, and the Gurkha, oh, the whole British Empire was extended with the help of the Sikhs and the Gurkhas. The Britishers took these Gurkhas and the Sikhs to Burma, to Messopotamia. They liquidated the Empire because they lost India. The British soldiers were not helping to keep up their Empire. These Indians soldiers. In the first war they gained for these Indian soldiers. They fought in France and everywhere very nicely. They are fighter class. They like to fight. And fighting is not going every day. So the arrangement was... Just like you have to fight for the state. So there is no monthly salary system. You are awarded by the government a certain tract of land free. You produce grains and utilize the land; no tax for you. But when there will be war, you shall fight. Very nice arrangement. Similarly, in temple, the florist has to supply flowers daily. Mr. Khanvar(?), am I right? You know this Indian system?

Mr. Khanvar: Yes.

Prabhupada: So the florist is given a certain tract of land free, and let him produce flower and make business. But the quantity of flower I require for my temple, he must supply daily. Similarly, the bandsman, he should come and play band. Everything was on land distribution. That was the system. And tax was paid to the government. Not by assessment. Uh, assessment... Whatever your land production is there, you give to the government one-fourth. That's all. If you have produced 1,000 mound grains, you have to give to the government 250 mounds. And if you have produced 100, then you give 25. So there is no question of harassment. Whatever is the production is there... So these profession is accepted from Vedic time, different kinds of men engaged in different kinds of activities. Maybe a florist, maybe a potter, maybe a cobbler, maybe anything, grain producer... So many, society requires so many things. So according to Vedic system, there is a class, and Bhagavata says that "You are engaged in your occupational duty; so whether you are getting success by such occupational duty?" The Vedic system does not condemn anyone. "You are a potter. Oh, you are lower." No. You are as good as a priest because you are doing your duty. That's all right. Never condemns. This is development of later age when the so-called brahmanas became, I mean to say, treacherous. They began to condemn so-called lower class. There was disruption, the whole social system. But in the beginning it was not. So they have got respectable terms. Just like a brahmana is addressed as panḍita maharaja. A ksatriya is addressed ṭhakura saheb, ṭhakur. And a merchant is addressed: sethji. And the laborer class addressed as choudhari, means leader. In this way everyone has got respectable position. Why? Because the test of their success was one, Visnu. Success... Svakarmana tam abhyarcya siddhim labhate param. Whatever your occupation may be, that doesn't matter. But if you worship the Supreme Lord by your occupation, then you are successful. The florist supplies flower to the temple. The potter supplies pots to the temple. The priest chants mantra in the temple. The ksatriyas, they protect the temple. He supplies the expenditure of the temple. Because the land belongs to the ksatriya. They are royal class. Because they occupy land, so they have got the obligation to give protection to the country, fight. They shall fight. And here, at the present moment, the arrangement is that you have no land, you are landless, but you are called to fight. Why? This system is condemned system. The ksatriyas, they are royal class, they possessed land, so they had obligation to protect the country. Therefore they were fighting. How nice arrangement. Those who are occupying administration of the country, they should fight. But they are sitting very nicely in their armchair and calling somebody, "Go and fight and be killed." This system is not scientific system. Therefore the caste system is very nice. They have now been condemned... Not condemned, but they want to revise it. But this is a very scientific system. Why? It is created by Krsna. Krsna says in the

Bhagavad-gita: catur-varnyam maya srsṭam guna-karma-vibhagasaḥ; [Bg. 4.13]. "I have created the four divisions of caste." It is not exactly caste; section, varna. So how you can stop? It is natural. So Bhagavata recommends, Suta Gosvami is addressing, ataḥ; pumbhir dvija-sresṭha varnasrama-vibhagasaḥ;. This system of sectional division, this is... "He is brahmana, he is ksatriya, he is vaisya, he is sudra, he is brahmacari, he is householder, he is vanaprastha, he is sannyasi." Or sub-section. "He is potter, he is washerman, he is this and that." You may divide it or not, this section will be there in every society. So Bhagavata says that "You may be situated in any section. It doesn't matter." Either you be a ksatriya or a brahmana or a potter or a washerman or whatever you may be, it doesn't matter. Everyone should be satisfied by his occupation. But how one gets successful by his occupation? He hasn't got to change the occupation. In the material world one has to change his occupation for certain kind of success. Suppose if you are a potter. Now, if you want to become engineer, so you have to change your occupation as potter. But in the spiritual world you haven't got to change your position, and still, you get success, spiritual life. That is the beauty. You haven't got to change. If somebody says that "Sir, I am potter. How can I be Krsna conscious? It requires that one should be a brahmana, one should be very learned man, Vedanta philosophy, and one must have the sacred thread, and this and that. So I am a potter. I am a cobbler. I am a washerman." No. Krsna says, "No." You do not require to change. Caitanya Mahaprabhu also says, "You do not require to change." Krsna says that svakarmana tam abhyarcya. You just try to worship the Supreme Lord by the result of your occupation. Because Krsna requires everything. So if you are a potter, you supply pots. If you are florist, you supply flower. If you are carpenter, you work for temple. If you are washerman, then wash clothing of the temple. Temple is the center, Krsna. And everyone gets chance to offer his service. Therefore temple worship is very nice. So this temple should be organized in such a way that we don't require any money. You give your service. That's all. You be engaged in your service. Don't change your service. But you try to serve the-temple means the Supreme Lord—by your occupational duty.

Sivananda: In other words, in the correct position that... You might have a community, and then...

Prabhupada: The community is supposed to be there. The potter is there, the washerman is there, the grocer is there, the milkman is there, everyone is there. So we haven't got to form community.

Sivananda: No. In the correct position then, the temple would be the center of the community.

Prabhupada: Yes. Temple is open for everyone. Let them come and sit down, chant Hare Krsna, hear Bhagavad-gita. We don't say, "Oh, are you potter? No. You are not allowed." We don't say that. "Are you cobbler? Oh, you are not allowed." No. We don't say that. Everyone is welcome. Come on. And what is the business? Chant Hare Krsna. Everyone can do it. And what is the next business? We read some nice philosophical portion from Bhagavad-gita, Srimad-Bhagavatam. Yes. You have got ears. (shouts:) But the rascals are not coming! That is their rascaldom. Because they will go to hell. We are offering the greatest facility, but they are so rascals they are not coming. This is a rascaldom civilization. What is difficulty there? You come, sit down, chant Hare Krsna, take nice prasadam, hear philosophy, see nice pictures, decorated Deity. What is the difficulty there? But their brain is full with rascaldom. They will go to cinema, they will go to hotel, they will go to some other thing, but they will not come to temple, or church, or anywhere where these things are being done. This is called Kali-yuga. Kali-yuga means they are so condemned that they don't take facility of the highest benefit. They have been educated. They have been trained in such a way that they don't like this. But this is their success. Bhagavata says, samsiddhir hari-tosanam [SB 1.2.13]. Ataḥ; pumbhir dvija-sresṭha varnasrama-vibhagasaḥ;. Vibhagasaḥ; means sectional division. "My dear learned brahmanas..." Because Suta Gosvami was speaking to very learned assembly of brahmanas Srimad-Bhagavatam. Because it is understandable not by ordinary class of men. But they are not disallowed. It depends on the speaker to present very nicely for their understanding. It is not, I mean to say, stopped. Nityam bhagavata-sevaya [SB 1.2.18]. This is the process.

srnvatam sva-kathaḥ; krsnaḥ;
punya-sravana-kirtanaḥ;
hrdy antah-stho hy abhadrani
vidhunoti suhrt satam
[SB 1.2.17]

If you kindly come and hear about Krsna, then Krsna will be very much pleased upon you. Anyone. Suppose if somebody is interested with you, he likes your activity, he likes to hear about your qualities, you will be also pleased with him. "Oh, this man is interested with my affairs." So srnvatam sva-kathaḥ; krsnaḥ;. Krsna is within your heart. Krsna is within and without because He is all-pervading. It is not that He is simply without or within. He is within and without. That is all-pervading. Akhilatma-bhutaḥ;. And all-pervading does not mean that He is not in Goloka Vrndavana. He is there also. Goloka eva nivasaty akhilatma-bhutaḥ; [Bs. 5.37]. Although He is in His abode, Goloka Vrndavana, He is everywhere. Just like sun. He is ninety millions miles away from here, situated in sun globe, but he is everywhere. This light now, it is sunlight. So if sun can remain in that way, everywhere, why not the Supreme Personality of Godhead, He also remains everywhere? So He is within your heart. And when He sees that you are interested in hearing about Him, He becomes sympathetic. He is sympathetic to everyone. Still more sympathetic. So what does He do? Srnvatam sva-kathaḥ; krsnaḥ;. Krsna, when He sees that one is interested in hearing about Him, then He gives you facility. What is that facility? That facility is srnvatam sva-kathaḥ; krsnaḥ; punya-sravana-kirtanaḥ; [SB 1.2.17]. Krsna-katha, talks about Krsna, you, either you understand it or not understand it, it doesn't matter, if you simply sit down to receive, give aural reception to such message, you become pious. Immediately. Punya-sravana-kirtanaḥ;. You don't understand; simply you talk and discuss and hear, you become pious. Just like fire. You come to the fire, you understand it or not understand, you get warm. That facility is there. You don't require to understand how fire is produced, what is the chemical or physical constitution. You do it, understand or not understand. Just like you sit down on a car, motor car. You understand it or not understand it, what is the engineering of the car, but you run on. Similarly, krsna-katha, the simply, the simple method, if you kindly come and hear, then you will be pious. That is the first installment. You don't understand or don't follow, but if the injection is there you become pious. Punya-sravana-kirtanaḥ;. And if you give little attention, then the result will be hrdy antaḥ;-stho hy abhadrani, all undesirable things that is accumulated within your heart, that will be cleared. Krsna will help you.

Sivananda: Now, um, supposedly, the false ego and...

Prabhupada: What is the false ego and..., now you have to hear. That's all.

Sivananda: No, I mean the attention itself, this is material, very, very subtle, but...

Prabhupada: Yes. If you give attention, it is better. Even if you don't give attention, simply hear, that will also have some effect.

Sivananda: Now, can... We should be able to control our attention then, to direct our attention to where...

Prabhupada: Then what is the use of sitting if you don't control your attention? Then you are simply wasting time. Why do you come? That is understood. When you come to hear, that means you must hear with attention. But this is a concession, that even if you don't hear with attention, you become purified. But if you do it, it is very nice. You make progress. You get the result very quickly. So success of life is to please Krsna, or the Supreme Lord, by one's occupational duty. Ataḥ; pumbhir dvija-sresṭha varnasrama-vibhagasaḥ;, svanusṭhitena dharmena. Svanusṭhitena dharmena samsiddhir hari-tosanam [SB 1.2.13]. One should try to satisfy the Absolute Truth, Personality of Godhead. And Lord Caitanya also recommends that "You remain in your occupation. That doesn't matter. But you submissively try to hear." So we are giving this chance to the people "Please come and hear." But they are not prepared even for that thing. The age is so strong, the Kali-yuga, that it will dictate. Maya will dictate, "Why you go there? What is there?" But actually, those who have come to us, those who are following, they are so much changed. That is a fact. They are seeing. They are hearing, "It will be." They are seeing, "It is." Still, they are not interested. Just like a class of men, they see that a person who has committed theft is arrested by police, and he is hearing that "If you commit theft, then you will be sinful or you will be caught by the laws of the state." So seeing and hearing, still he is committing theft. Why? By experience, practical experience, he is seeing that "Here is a man, committed theft. He is punished. He is going to be arrested by the police." And he has heard also that if somebody commits theft, he will be punished. So what do you want? Two things are required. Dekha srona(?), seeing and hearing, for gaining knowledge. So he has got knowledge by seeing and hearing, but still... That means the heart is not clear. So this thing will be helpful for clearing the heart. Srnvatam sva-kathaḥ; krsnaḥ; punya-sravana-kirtanaḥ; [SB 1.2.17]. Simply by legal obligation one cannot be purified. You may enact thousands of rules and regulation and laws. You cannot purify the heart of the people. Here is the process to purify the heart of the people. Therefore they should be taken advantage of. Simply by saying that "If you do this, then you'll be punished," nobody cares for that. Just like a child. The parents daily says, "My dear boy, don't do this. This is mischievous." But he does. Just like a dog, animal. Because the heart is not purified. The knowledge is not there. So this is the process for purifying the heart. Ceto-darpana-marjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. This is the process. So one should take advantage of this process, how to purify the mind, how to purify the heart. Then you will be a perfect personality, perfect man. Srnvatam sva-kathaḥ; krsnaḥ;. So we don't say that "You change your profession, you change your position or occupation," no. Please come and hear. Please... If you don't chant, please hear. That hearing process also will cure you. Sravanam kirtanam. So people should come to our temple and hear this chanting, this... We are not taxing. We are not asking any... If you give some contribution, there is temple and management, there is expenditure, heavy expenditure, in this country. If you so kind... It is very kind of you. Even if you do not pay, you don't like, please come. Please come and hear. Please bring your friends if you are really friend. So it is very nice thing. Sthane sthitaḥ; sruti-gatam tanu-van-manobhir. You remain what you are. We don't say that you change, but you hear. Sruti-gatam. Sruti means this ear. God has given you this nice thing. You just inject this transcendental vibration through this ear. And when you will, you purify yourself, then you'll know how to make your life successful by your occupation. Sva-karmana tam abhyarcya samsiddhim labhate param [Bg. 18.46]. Samsiddhi. Samsiddhi means perfection. So even fifty years... Not fifty. About sixty years before, in our childhood, or more than, sixty-five years before, when we were five, six years old, this system of hearing in the evening, in every village there was current. And my maternal uncle's house was in the suburb of Calcutta. So in our childhood, when we used to go to our maternal uncle's house, all the ladies and members being discussed. They will sit down. All the members of the neighboring people, they will come, very big crowd, and they will hear, and whatever they can pay, they will pay. And with that impression, at nine o'clock or ten o'clock, they will go to bed. Very nice arrangement. Usually the meeting was taking place after night, dinner, you see? Say, about at nine o'clock. And from nine to ten, eleven, the discussion would go on, and then the members dispersed and go to their respective home. We have seen. And all the ladies, whole road, they were discussing, "The priest told me..." They discussed very seriously to understand. So they don't require any education. Simply by hearing they become advanced. This is recommended. Srnvatam sva-kathaḥ;... Srnvatam. Just try to hear, hear, hear. Very nice process. So we are inviting people. We have got so much big space. Unfortunately, nobody is coming to hear. Mr. Khanvar? Why they do not come?

Mr. Khanvar: I don't know.

Prabhupada: (laughs) No, can you guess any reason?

Mr. Khanvar: Many people don't know about temple. Many people are not aware of the temple.

Prabhupada: Well, these are..., so many people came on that day. At least, they know. They have no interest. That is the thing. That this life is meant for perfection in self-realization or Krsna consciousness, their dull brain does not allow to understand this fact. Therefore I was explaining last night, su-medhasaḥ; good brain substance. So people are becoming dull, and talking all nonsense. They are interested with so many nonsense things. Just like yesterday that gentleman came. You were present?

Devotee: Yes.

Prabhupada: Oh, he was talking that on zero some great swami spoke four hours. And he was very proud that on zero one can speak throughout his whole life. Now I did not... (laughs) But if you can speak on some subject matter for four hours, how it is zero? Just see the contradiction. Gaurasundara, you were present when he was speaking? You heard? If I can speak something on a subject matter, is that subject matter zero? Zero means sunya. Sunya means nothing. So how you can speak on nothing? If you can speak on nothing, then nothing is no more nothing. It is something. Just see. But you are so proud. "Oh, he spoke on zero for four hours." I did not contradict because he is newcomer, but I talked on other subject. But this is the position. Suppose you can talk on zero for four hours. Then either you waste your time... Because after all it is zero. The result is zero. Just like you add one million zeros. So what is the value? Zero. So who is a fool that knowing that one million zeros makes zero, why shall I waste my time making so many zeros? So either he is a fool or if zero has so much substance to speak, then how it is zero? If zero has so much value that one can speak on it for hours and hours together, then how it is zero? So people do not understand things very properly. They're so dull. Then he was eulogising the man who spoke on zero for four hours. Yes. That is the system, if you hear a man talking nonsense and people will give cla... Oh! And he's asking what you have understood, "Oh! it is very difficult to explain." Then why you are wasting time? If you cannot express, if you do not understand. Simply people wants jugglery of words, they don't want substance. They don't want substance. That is the difficulty in the mod..., in the present age. Sva-karmana tam abhyarcya samsiddhim labhate param [Bg. 18.46]. Svanusá¹­hitasya dharmasya samsiddhir hari-tosanam [SB 1.2.13]. So you should learn this nice simple fact, that whether by your work Krsna or the Supreme Personality of Godhead is being satisfied. Just like a student, how he is prosecuting his studies will be tested at the examination how he can satisfy the examiner. Similarly, whatever we may do, we have to enquire or to understand whether by that work the Supreme Personality of Godhead is satisfied. Unfortunately, they do not believe in God, or if they had some ideas of God... Now they say God is dead. So they do not think that it is necessary to please God. That is the difficulty.

Sivananda: In other words if we have a decision to make, we should make the decision only in terms of how it's going to affect my service to Krsna.

Prabhupada: Hm?

Sivananda: In other words, you don't necessarily make snap decisions. I mean they're probably very... They can consider it from all different points of view.

Prabhupada: It is not difficult.

Sivananda: No. But I mean you have to consider all the different means and figure out how you're going to serve Krsna the best way.

Prabhupada: Yes. Krsna can be served by his own occupation, as I described just now. Or whatever you may be. You may be a potter, you may be a florist, you may be... Whatever you may be, but you can satisfy Krsna by his work, by your work. You do not require to qualify yourself with some specific qualification. Whatever qualification you have got, you have to dovetail it under the direction of expert spiritual master, how you can serve. That's all.

Pradyumna: What does that expert mean in the list of qualifications for a devotee? In the list of qualifications of a devotee there is one qualification, expert.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Pradyumna: What does that mean in relation to the occupation?

Prabhupada: Expert means whatever he is doing, he must do it very nicely That's all. Suppose you are sweeping this room. You can do it very nicely, to your best knowledge. That is expert. The people will say, "Oh, you have very nicely done." Any work you do, do it very nicely. That is expert. Don't do it haphazardly. To your best talent, to your best capacity, try to finish it very nicely, whatever it may be. You are entrusted with some work. Do it nicely. That is expert. If you think that you are unable to do that work, then whatever work you can do, you take. But do it nicely. That is expert. Don't imitate. "Oh, I have no capacity to work in that way, but I want to imitate. Oh, he is doing that. I shall do that." Don't do that. That is not expert. You take up what you can do very nicely and do it nicely. We have so many works. Krsna is not that He is static. He is dynamic force. Just like Arjuna, he was not a Vedantist, he was not a brahmana, he was not a sannyasi. He was householder. He was military man. But he knew his business, how to do it nicely. So you do your business nicely. That is expert. And when it is dovetailed in Krsna, there is no gradation that this business is better and that business is lower because everything is for Krsna. So that business becomes Krsna. Do it nicely and Krsna is satisfied. And that is your success. Avyapare suvyaparam yo naraḥ; kartum icchati, sa-mulo hanyate 'khila parthiva vanaraḥ;.(?) Expert. There is a very nice story in Sanskrit. A monkey. A monkey... You might have some experience, that sawmen, who cut wood? Sawmen. So a sawman was cutting wood by the saw. So at the end of business it was half cut so he pulled down a, I mean to say, a plug so that next day he will come and he'll again begin sawing. So went away. So one monkey came. So monkey sat down there and began to pull on the plug because monkey's business is simply mischievous. So he did not know that his plough (?) and some portion of his thigh was within the hole and when he took out this plug it was, (claps) I mean to say, clipped, and he could not get out and died. So the instruction is that... 'Khila parthiva vanaraḥ;, vyapare suvyaparam. Avyapara means a occupation, an occupation which is not fit for you. That is avyapara. Avyapara-suvyaparam. And one occupation which is not exactly fitting you, you do not know how to do it, so avyapare suvyaparam yo kartu... If one wants to act in a business in which he is unable to do, then he is killed just like this fool monkey. Avyapare suvyaparam yo naraḥ; kartum icchati, sa-mulo hanyate. That foolish person is killed just like this monkey. The monkey's business was not to imitate the sawman, but he wanted to imitate. The result was that he was killed. So that is not expertness. Expertness is you just try to do which is easily performed by you. You don't accept anything heavy task because Krsna does not want that you have to do this heavy task. Whatever you know, you just apply it. You dovetail it in Krsna consciousness. Krsna does not say that you have to become like this, like that, like that, then you can serve Him. Does not say. Just like this cow. Just see. What does it know? He's an animal. You see? But the calf knows to brush his head and tongue like this, in love. It is doing and Krsna accepting, "Yes." That is expert. First of all find out what is easily done by you. Don't take anything which is not easily done by you. You find out what is your occupation, what you can very nicely and easily perform, and do it for Krsna. That's all. Is that clear? Expert? This is expert. Expert does not mean that I do not know how to drive motor car, and I will have to imitate somebody, "Oh, I shall become driver." Why? If you do not know driving, why should you attempt driving? Whatever you know, you just try it, that business, and try to satisfy Krsna. If you know driving, that's all right. But don't take... My Guru Maharaja explained that you haven't got to learn anything extra for Krsna's service. Whatever you know, you just apply it... Then you become successful. Because our time is very short. We do not know when I am going to die. As soon as I am out of this body, I am completely under the grip of nature, and I do not know what kind of body I am getting next. Of course, Krsna assures that His devotee will never be vanquished. He will get good body. But I do not know what kind of body I am going to... Therefore before finishing this body I will have to develop Krsna consciousness very nicely. That is my success. Sabdhva sudurlabham idam bahu-sambhavante. After many, many of evolutionary process, I have got this nice human form of body in America or India, in civilized nation, or rich family, I have no economic problem. That's all right. So it is to be understood they are simply wasting. Oh, how miserable it is. They get the opportunity, and they are simply wasting for sense gratification just like cats and dogs. Whole day working, whole day laboring. Why? Sense gratification. That is also in the hog society. Eating stool, living in nasty place, and they have got very good facility for sex. Is that the end of life? So Bhagavata says, nayam deho deha-bhajam nrloke kasṭan kaman arhate viḍ-bhujam ye [SB 5.5.1]. You are working so hard and the end should not be simply sense gratification. Sense gratification you can get in hog society, dog society, without any, I mean to say, extra qualification. That is... Visayaḥ; khalu sarvataḥ; syat. Visaya means this sense gratificatory business, you will have in any life. In bird's life, in dog's life, in cat's life. So do you think that human life is also meant for that purpose? Then what is the meaning of civilization? Is that civilization? If the end of life is the same, just like cats and dogs, is it civilization? They do not know what is civilization. They have forgotten. They think that eating very nicely in a palatable dish, that is civilization. But eating is eating. And if you eat... If you are hungry, anything satisfies you. That is eating. Finish. You can eat. Sleeping. When you are fast asleep, you do not know whether you are on the nice building in a nice apartment. You are dreaming that you are thrown into the ocean. So sleeping. So simply for nice arrangement for sleeping, is that civilization? [break] Then life is successful. At least, if one understands that "This is my business. My business is not to work hard and end it by sense gratification. This is not my business." That is samsiddhi. That is success. If, at least, one understands this aim of life, even little understands, he gets next human body. That is guaranteed. At least, he is not going to get any cats' and dogs' body. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gita. Sucinam srimatam gehe yoga-bhrasṭo 'bhijayate [Bg. 6.41]. When Arjuna inquired that if a man cannot execute this yoga system, Bhakti-yoga system, Krsna consciousness, if it is half finished or one-fourth finished, or 10% finished, not complete finished, then what is the result? He is good for nothing? No. Krsna says, "No." Svalpam apy asya dharmasya trayate mahato bhayat. Even a little understood, it can save him from the greatest danger. And sucinam srimatam gehe yoga-bhrasṭo 'bhijayate. If one is not successful in this life, then he is given another chance next life. Where? Sucinam. In nice, transcendentalist, brahmana or Vaisnava devotee or pious man, in his family. Or less than, if he is less qualified, then he is given a chance to get his birth in a rich family. Both the families. In rich family he has no economic problem. And in a pious family he gets direct opportunity to, I mean to say, advance his past Krsna consciousness again. So in these two families he gets another chance. But unfortunately, those who are born in rich family, they immediatel

y give up all principles of Krsna consciousness. "Oh, I have got so much money without any labor. Let me enjoy." This is maya. He does not think... Because he has no education that "You have got this opportunity that you have no economic problem. Take this opportunity for advancing in Krsna consciousness. Engage your full time to become a devotee." Nobody educates him. The poor boy or poor fellow is misguided. He gets his friend, "Oh you have got so much money. Let us enjoy." Eat drink be merry and enjoy. So he becomes again cats and dogs.

Pradyumna: What is that type of pleasure that is material pleasure, that a person feels engaged in material pursuit. He feel some kind of pleasure. It's not very much pleasure, but it's some pleasure. What is that pleasure made of? Because if he is enjoying sense gratification...

Prabhupada: That is pleasure. That is material pleasure. Material pleasure means sex pleasure. That's all. The end of material pleasure, the topmost material pleasure, is sex pleasure. So all these materialists, they are trying to get pleasure from the sex life. In this way, that way, that way, that way, that way. That's all. Because they have no other information. Material pleasure means sex pleasure. Sex pleasure, tongue pleasure. They have manufactured so many things. That gentleman was sitting and asking "Can I smoke?" The tongue is agitating for... "Please, please give me one cigarette. One cigarette." He became disturbed. And we said, "No. You cannot smoke." This is material pleasure. You train up your senses in such a way that it becomes addicted. It cannot get out of the entanglement. So this Krsna consciousness will save you. Yan maithunadi-grhamedhi-sukham hi tuccham [SB 7.9.45]. They are all explained in the Srimad-Bhagavatam. The material pleasure means sexual intercourse. That's all. That is the sum and substance of pleasure. That's all. You'll find everywhere two, one male and female, one male and female. Either legitimate or illegitimate. Either human being or animal or birds or beast, that male and female, male and female, male and female. This is material pleasure. And unless one is strongly equipped in Krsna consciousness, it is not possible to give up. That is the test. It is not possible. Therefore Krsna is Madana-mohana. He can captivate even the Cupid. This is Cupid's business, attraction of male and female. And when that Krsna attracts you, you forget this Cupid attraction. Therefore He is known as Madana-mohana.

jayatam suratau pangor
mama manda-mater gati
mat-sarvasva-padambhojau
radha-madana-mohanau

This is the beginning.

Sivananda(?): When do we become attracted? When do we begin to become attracted?

Prabhupada: Forget that. You are attracted. That you take account of. When you become diseased, that is useless. You are diseased. Take medicine. There is no necessity of asking when you became diseased. You are diseased. Take medicine. That's all. What is the use of tracing the history? Everything has his history, that's all right. But my immediate necessity is that "I am diseased. I want to be cured. Give me some medicine." But there is history. The history is this. Just like disease. You have fallen victim of disease. That means you have given chance to the infection. That's all. That is the sum and substance of disease. You are infected with some disease. That means you have given chance for that infection. There was a story in a medical journal. "Typhoid Mary." Typhoid Mary... One girl, whenever she was present everyone was being infected with typhoid. Then she was examined, that she is full of typhoid germs. But she was immune. But she infected wherever she went. The medical journal reported. So we should be careful not being infected. And that how you can become free from infection? These four rules. "Don't have this, don't have this, don't have this, don't have this." Then you are free from infection. So you should be careful from being infected. There is no use tracing out the history when you become infected. You should not be infected. That should be your business. And as you are now infected, you try to avoid the causes of infection and take the medicine; you become cured. Some prasadam? So Annapurna you have got some news?

Annapurna: I got a letter from my father.

Prabhupada: So is that all right?

Annapurna: Yes.

Prabhupada: So what is our next program? (chuckles) That letter is encouraging?

Annapurna: Yes.

Prabhupada: That's all right. (pause) So on behalf of Krsna we have to canvass with folded hands and with all humility, "Please come to our temple and hear." He sadhava sakalam eva vihaya durad caitanya-candra-carane kurutanuragam. All right. (pause)

Devotee: This rule, "No gambling," does this also include speculation?

Prabhupada: Yes. Speculation is gambling.

Pradyumna: Swamiji? I was reading a book by Swami Vivekananda. Some letters in the back I was looking at...

Prabhupada: Vivekananda's books we have nothing to do.

Pradyumna: I was just...

Prabhupada: Forget him. It is all nonsense.

Pradyumna: I was looking at his philosophy. I was just looking at his technique for his... He was in America first and then he wished also to go to Europe. Anyway, he had one man... He just had a rich benefactor and he went on a six weeks tour, France, England, Germany, Switzerland, all around and then back. That's how he did most of his touring. He had one or two influential people, and then he did everything just like that. And all lectures were arranged in societies.

Prabhupada: So you can arrange like that. Can you?

Pradyumna: I was thinking if there would be in the Royal Asiatic Society in London. I think Thakura Bhaktivinoda was a member of that also? Is that the same one?

Prabhupada: Where is Thakura Bhaktivinoda now?

Pradyumna: No, but there would be some people there, to open correspondence with them, and they might be interested in sponsoring you.

Prabhupada: It is not... It is more difficult.(?) (Prabhupada is taking prasadam) (pause) Is there anything about Krsna in Vivekananda's speech?

Pradyumna: I wasn't reading his speeches. I wanted to see how he worked things. I know he's a rascal.

Prabhupada: So you can give me a little milk and finish business. (pause) (devotees offer obeisances) All glories to the assembled devotees.

Devotees: All glories to Guru and Gauranga!

Prabhupada: Yes. All glories to you because you are interested in Krsna consciousness. Certainly it is glorious. Greatest science. Please try to understand it very nicely. You will be all happy. That is my request.

Devotee: Is this picture of He who is considered(?) Krsna in the pine tree?

Prabhupada: What is this? Some imagination. Some imagination. All cheating. (end)