Prabhupada: So this evening I shall speak to you about Sanatana Gosvami, when he resigned from his ministership in the government of Nawab Hussain Shah in Bengal and joined Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu in His movement of Krṣṇa consciousness.

So there is a long history how he resigned. He was the trustee of the government. Formerly, although the government was Muhammadan, the best Hindu personality was engaged to take charge of the ministership. Even in Akbar's time the same principle was done. Maharaja Jayasingh. Even Aurangzeb, he was a very rigid Muhammadan, still, his principal minister was Maharaja Jayasingh. Similarly, Sanatana Gosvami and his brother Rupa Gosvami, they accepted the government service coming from a very respectable brahmaṇa family. But they were rejected by the brahmaṇa community because they accepted the service of Muhammadan. Formerly, the Hindu society was very strict. Brahmaṇas would not accept anyone's service. So Sanatana Gosvami, after joining Caitanya Mahaprabhu, he left Bengal. And when Srila Caitanya Mahaprabhu was residing in Benares to deliver the Mayavadi sannyasis, at that time, his bavarṇasee (?) ... So after he was clean-shaved... This is one of the items of our movement. If one wants to be initiated, he must be clean-shaved. So Sanatana Gosvami was clean-shaved. And after becoming a regular Vaiṣṇava, then he is asking like this:

tabe sanatana prabhura caraṇe dhariya
dainya vinati kare dante trṇa laña

So he approached Caitanya Mahaprabhu in a very humble manner. That is the way of approaching a guru. The Vedic instruction is,

tad-vijñanarthaṁ sa gurum evabhigacchet
samit-paṇiḥ; srotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham
[MU 1.2.12]

Samit-paṇiḥ;, taking that short grass, kusa. In Sanskrit it is called kusa. So Sanatana Prabhu approached Him very humbly. That is the way. In the Bhagavad-gita it is said,

tad viddhi praṇipatena
pariprasnena sevaya
upadekṣyanti tad jñanaṁ
jñaninas tattva-darsinaḥ;
[Bg. 4.34]

We must approach a bona fide guru for enlightenment. And samit-paṇiḥ; srotriyam: one who has received knowledge by hearing, not by speculating. Nowadays it has become a fashion to speculate. The Vedic injunction is, "No. By hearing." You have to approach the right person and hear. Therefore the whole Vedic literature is called sruti. One has to learn very intelligently by hearing from the authority. The same example we find in Bhagavad-gita. In the battlefield, where time is very valuable, still, Arjuna is hearing from Krṣṇa. Krṣṇa is instructing, and Arjuna is hearing. So this hearing process is our Vedic process. Caitanya Mahaprabhu has recommended, according to, of course, Vedic injunction: sthane sthitaḥ; sruti-gataṁ tanu-vaṅ-manobhiḥ;. You haven't got to change your position. It is not necessary that you have to take sannyasa from grhastha life, you have to give up your occupation. No. That is not very important thing. The important thing is This verse was submitted by Lord Brahma:

jñane prayasam udapasya namanta eva
(jivanti) san-mukharitaṁ bhavadiya-vartam
sthane sthitaḥ; sruti-gataṁ tanu-vaṅ-manobhir
ye prayaso ajito 'py asi tais...

If you want to understand God... That is the business of human life. Human life is specially... That is the chance. Because we are in the cycle of birth and death, changing, migrating from one body to another... This is our position. So except human body, lower than the human body, we can understand how they are suffering. Suppose a tree. Here we are sitting so comfortably. A few yards off from this place, there is a tree, and it is standing for thousands of years. Is not that punishment? If I tell Mr. such and such, "You stand up here for five hours," he'll become mad. That is a sort of punishment to the children. Formerly, the punishment was... The teacher, in the class, a naughty boy, he's asked, "Stand up on the bench." Therefore, half an hour to stand up on the bench becomes a very, very intolerable pain for him. So just imagine that the tree, this is punishment, standing in one place. I saw one tree in San Francisco; they say it is seven thousand years old. So except human form of life, there are eight million different forms of life. And there is little idea in the Darwin's theory of evolution. That is only imitation of the Vedic literature, and he wanted to credit for himself. He presented it pervertedly. But actually, in the Padma Puraṇa the evolution theory is there. Asitiṁ caturas caiva lakṣaṁs tañ jiva-jatiṣu. There are 8,400,000 species of forms in jiva-jatiṣu, the living entities. They're passing through. So this is the chance, human form of life, to get out of this cycle of birth and death. Actually, this is our miserable condition. Krṣṇa presents these four things as actually miserable condition. We are trying to remove miseries and get happiness. This is called struggle for existence. Manaḥ; ṣaṣthanindriyaṇi prakrti-sthani karṣati [Bg. 15.7]. Mamaivaṁso jiva-bhuto jiva-loke sanatanaḥ;. In the Bhagavad-gita Krṣṇa says that "These living entities, they are My part and parcels, qualitatively as good as I am.'' So the Vedanta-sutra says, "The living entities or God, they are meant for enjoyment.'' Anandamayo 'bhyasat (Vedanta-sutra 1.1.12). By nature anandamaya. So "Why I am put into this miserable condition?'' This is the questions by intelligent human being. And if he remains satisfied with the miseries of this material life, then he's no better than the cats and dogs. Sa eva go-kharaḥ; [SB 10.84.13].

So this is intelligence, to inquire about the miserable condition of life. So Sanatana Gosvami, he says,

nica jati nica saṅgi patita adhama
kuviṣaya-kupe paḍi' goṅainu janama

"My dear Sir, although I was born in brahmaṇa family, but now I am rejected. I am counted amongst the Muhammadans." Because their name was also changed, these two brothers. And even they were rejected by the brahmaṇa community, and their association was these big, big zamindars, most of them viṣayis, only concerned with pound, shilling, pence. So about him it is said by Srinivasa Acarya, tyaktva turṇam aseṣa-maṇḍala-pati-sreṇiṁ sada tucchavat. These Gosvamis, they were very exaltedly posted as minister and were associate Minister means associated with big, big men, big businessmen, big zamindars, like that. So maṇḍala-pati. And big men maṇḍala-pati, who controls a very big circle, especially the zamindars, landholders. So tyaktva turṇam aseṣa-maṇḍala-pati-sreṇim. He gave up the association of these big, big men. Tyaktva turṇam aseṣa-maṇḍala-pati-sreṇiṁ sada tucchavat. Tuccha means, "Eh, what is this? It has no value.'' So this is not ordinary thing, one can give up. But by the grace of Krṣṇa, by the grace of Caitanya Mahaprabhu, one may think of this material enjoyment very insignificant. (child making noises) (aside:) The child may be taken out. So he gave up the association and [break]

...the birds, they have no problem. Early in the morning they rise up, and they are certain, somewhere there is some fruit. They will eat and sleep in the top of the tree. They haven't got to make arrangement, economic development. It already is there. But it is very difficult to understand that these material necessities of life is already arranged. You cannot get more, cannot get... Suppose some of our Indian friends, they come to this country, far away. Does it mean that simply by coming here he has become millionaire? No. In Bengali it is said, yadi gar baṅge kaphala yabe saṅge (?), Wherever you go, your this fate will go with you. If you are meant for getting ten thousand, you'll never get ten thousand, one hundred. You'll get, either you remain in your country or go to hell. Destiny. This is called destiny. Therefore sastra says,

tasyaiva hetoḥ; prayateta kovido
na labhyate yad bhramatam upary adhaḥ;
tal labhyate duḥ;khavad anyataḥ; sukhaṁ
kalena sarvatra gabhira-raṁhasa
[SB 1.5.18]

Just like nobody hankers after distress, but we have experienced, distress is forced upon us. So similarly, sastra says that whatever happiness you are destined to get, wherever you remain, you'll get it by destiny. So there is no need of trying for suppressing distress and getting happiness. Don't waste your time in that way. But you try for that thing which you never got in other different forms of life. That is Krṣṇa consciousness. This life is meant for this purpose, to understand Krṣṇa and God, or God. Yes. That is the only... athato brahma jijñasa. This is meant. Not for wasting our time simply with the animal propensities. The modern civilization, modern education, has no information about this. Nobody is trying to understand what is the actual aim of life. There is no such civilization. Therefore he is presenting himself, kuviṣaya-kupe paḍi' goṅainu janama. "Simply in the matter of searching after false happiness I have wasted my time." That he has condemned.

Then he says,

apanara hitahita kichui na jan
gramya-vyavahare paṇḍita tai satya mani

Because brahmaṇas in India It is A custom is still: whatever he may be, because he's born in a brahmaṇa family, he's addressed as paṇḍitaji. Paṇḍitaji. So here Sanatana Gosvami says, gramya-vyavahare. Gramya-vyavahare means in village transaction. "Actually I am not paṇḍita, but the villagers, my neighbors, they call me paṇḍita. And because they call me paṇḍita, I also think that I am a paṇḍita.'' I have seen it in Calcutta. One man was pulling on thela with a sacred thread, and another man, maybe he's village men, he "Paṇḍitaji, pala ela(?)." And he's pulling on thela, he said, "Betaji kag amar(?)." Now this is going on. What is the value of his asirvad(?), blessing, who is engaged in pulling on thela? But this is gramya-vyavahare. This is not actual fact. So Caitanya..., by the grace of Caitanya Mahaprabhu, Sanatana Gosvami has learned it that "They called me paṇḍita. It is false address. I am not really paṇḍita.'' Why you are not paṇḍita? You are educated. You are very good scholar in Sanskrit and Parsi. And as in these days English is considered to be very important subject And actually it is. So unless one is educated in English, he's half-educated, still. So he was educated certainly. As a brahmaṇa he was educated in Sanskrit, and as government officer, he had to learn, in those days, Urdu and Parsi. So he was educated. But he says that "Although they call me paṇḍita and I am, maybe I am little educated. But the difficulty is that I do not know what is the ultimate goal of life, or my real position of happiness.'' Apanara hitahita kichui na jani.

Ask any learned scholar in these days that "What is the ultimate goal of life?" They will say, "Oh, there is no particular end (?). Let us live very happily, and after death everything is finished." I have consulted many men, big, big professors, Indian and foreign. They have no idea of the first education in the Bhagavad-gita: tatha dehantara-praptir dhiras tatra na muhyati [Bg. 2.13]. There is change of body. There is already change of body. I was a child, I was a boy, I was a young man. Now the body is changed—I have got this wretched body, old man's body. So all these bodies... That is simple, logical. Krṣṇa says in the beginning—that is the first lesson of Bhagavad-gita-that,

dehino 'smin yatha dehe
kaumaraṁ yauvanaṁ jara
tatha dehantara-praptir
dhiras tatra na muhyati
[Bg. 2.13]

Dehinaḥ; means the proprietor of the body. But every one of us, thinking "I am this body." They have no first lesson of Bhagavad-gita. First lesson only, ABCD, that "You are not this body." This is the first lesson. When Arjuna was talking in bodily relationship, so, and he accepted Krṣṇa as guru... Siṣyas te 'haṁ sadhi maṁ prapannam [Bg. 2.7]. "There is perplexity. I cannot understand, Krṣṇa." Krṣṇa was his friend, but he accepted Him guru. Accepting guru means if you accept somebody guru, then whatever he will say, you have to accept. Siṣya. Siṣya means one who is ruled. So if you voluntarily accept somebody, that "I shall be ruled by you," that is guru. Not that "I shall rule over you by giving some money." Then it is not accepting guru. Guru means in all circumstances. Guror hitam. Brahmacari guru-kule vasan danto guror hitam [SB 7.12.1]. Therefore the first training is to live in gurukula, to learn how to respect guru, how to abide by the orders of guru. So Krṣṇa is guru. So Arjuna accepted Krṣṇa as guru. Siṣyas te 'ham [Bg. 2.7]. "I am Your now disciple. Now give, teach me." Then Bhagavad-gita was begun. Not before that.

So teaching should not begin unless one accepts the teacher as the ultimate guru. So Krṣṇa is teaching the same thing as Caitanya Mahaprabhu will teach Sanatana Gosvami. The same process: tad-vijñanarthaṁ sa gurum evabhigacchet [MU 1.2.12]. So the teacher, Krṣṇa, first of all chastised Arjuna. Asocyan anvasocas tvaṁ prajña-vadaṁs ca bhasase: [Bg. 2.11] "My dear Arjuna, you are talking like a very learned scholar, but you are engaged in such a thing which is not at all lamentable."

asocyan anvasocas tvaṁ
prajña-vadaṁs ca bhaṣase
gatasun agatasuṁs ca
nanusocanti paṇḍitaḥ;
[Bg. 2.11]

"One who is learned, paṇḍita, he has no business to consider about this body." Now see, the whole world is concerned with this body, but this is condemned. Yasyatma-buddhiḥ; kuṇape tri-dhatuke. Anyone who is accepting this body, which is nothing but combination of tri-dhatu... Or you take the material elements: earth, water, air, fire. Or more explicitly: the skin, blood, bone, urine, stool. You'll find these things. But do you think such intelligent person is created, manufactured, by bone and blood and skin and urine and stool? It's common sense. It is something else, spirit soul. That they do not understand.

Sanatana Gosvami is also placing that gramya-vyavahare paṇḍita, tai satya mani: "These fools and rascals call me paṇḍitaji, and I accept, 'Oh, I am paṇḍita.' But actually my position, apanara hitahita kichui na jani: I do not know what I am and what is the goal of my life. I am thinking, 'I am this body, and the body is finished then everything is finished.' This is my knowledge." So just compare. This knowledge is going on all over the world, "I am this body." And anyone who is thinking that he's this body, he's no better than cats and dogs. The dog is also thinking like that, "I am this body." Yasyatma-buddhiḥ; kuṇape tri-dhatu... It is not my manufactured word. It is stated in the sastra. Yasyatma-buddhiḥ; kuṇape tri-dhatuke [SB 10.84.13]. This body is made of these elements. I can call earth, water, air, fire. Or you..., blood, bone, and so many things. So if the..., take this combination of blood, bone, muscles, and veins, and urine and stool is the life, then he..., you are no better than the cats and dogs. Sa eva go-kharaḥ; [SB 10.84.13]. Go-kharaḥ;. Go means cow, and kharaḥ; means ass. So the ass is also thinking like that, a cow is also thinking like that. If you are thinking like that, then you are... So one has to learn what he is.

Then Sanatana Gosvami said,

krpa-kari' yadi more kariyacha uddhara
apana-krpate kaha 'kartavya' amara

"My Lord, Caitanya Mahaprabhu, very kindly You went to my place and You have delivered me so that after Your visit I decided to resign from the government service, and I have come to You. So You have delivered me from the pitfalls of this materialistic way of life. Now tell me what is my duty." This is student. This is disciple. Approach a bona fide guru, a spiritual master, and abide by his orders and do accordingly. Then your life will be successful. And if you keep yourself in the darkness, that "I am very rich man. I am very learned man, but unfortunately, I do not know what I am," so what is the use? The Narottama dasa Ṭhakura: vidya-kule hi karibe tara. So if you do not know yourself, then what your so-called education and high family, high nationality, will help you? Nature's law is different. Prakrteḥ; kriyamaṇani guṇaiḥ; karmaṇi sarvasaḥ; [Bg. 3.27]. If you do not cultivate spiritual knowledge, if you remain like cats and dogs, then prakrti, nature, will give you the cats' and dogs' body next life. Suppose you become very big businessman and you have got nice, very big balance and so on, so on, but by your activities you remain like a dog mentality is, then you are going to get the body of a dog. Yaṁ yaṁ vapi smaran loke tyajaty ante kalevaram [Bg. 8.6]. The test is at the time of death. At the time of death, if my mentality is different, so according to that mentality I shall get the body. This is called transmigration of the soul. There is no teaching of this science throughout the whole world, and we are trying to educate people. Of course, it is very difficult to understand, but this is the science, that there is transmigration of the soul. And if we do not take care of this, that "What I am going to become next life?" if you simply waste your time simply on the matter of eating, sleeping, mating and defense, then we are wasting our time. This is the subject matter of Krṣṇa consciousness.

Then he asked,

ke ami kene amaya jare tapa-traya
iha nali jani-kemane hita haya

So this is the proposition to the spiritual master, that one must submit that "Actually, I do not know what I am. Am I this body or something else?" I am not this body, that I can understand, because I say, when somebody asks... Even a child, you ask, "My dear child, what is this?" he will say, "It is my finger." He'll never say, "I finger," what to speak of others. If every one of us, we say, "This is my hair, this is my nose," then where is "I"? He doesn't inquire "Where is I?" Then there will be analysis of the body, where is that "I"? Everyone knows "my," but who knows "I"? That is education. That is being submitted by Sanatana Gosvami. Ke ami kene amaya jare tapa-traya. So tapa-traya means three kinds of miserable condition: adhyatmika, adhibhautika, adhidaivika. Adhyatmika means pertaining to the body and mind. Sometimes we are feeling some ailments in the body-mind is not in good order. This is called adhyatmika. And adhibhautika. Adhibhautika means miseries inflicted by other living entities. Just like there are mosquitos, there are flies, there are birds, there are other animals, or other enemies in the human society: my friend has become enemy, so he's trying to give me some displeasure. So this kind of This is called adhibhautika. Adhyatmika. Even nobody gives me any distress, my body will give me distress. If I cannot sit comfortably, if there is some pinching, I am feeling pain. So these things are going on, adhyatmika, adhibhautika, adhidaivika. And other miseries inflicted by providence. Just like there is no rain, excessive heat, excessive cold, famine, pestilence, earthquake. We have no control over. These are adhidaivika. So we are suffering. Although we may foolishly say If somebody asks his friend, "How are you?'' he says, "Oh, yes, everything is all right.'' Where is "Everything is all right"? You are suffering and This is called maya. He's suffering, but he will say, "Everything is all right.'' A man is dying on the deathbed, and his friend comes, "How you are feeling?'' "Yes, I am all right.'' (laughter) Now he's going to die, and he says, "I am all right.'' So this is called maya. They're suffering, but they are accepting, "I am all right.'' Full of anxieties always: "What will happen next?''

So this is the position. So Sanatana Gosvami is placing this plain fact, that ke ami kene amaya jare tapa... "I do not want to suffer. So there is suffering." That's a fact. Iha nahi jani kemane. "So how I can get out of this suffering, kindly give me lesson." And this is human life. Go to a bona fide guru, try to understand the problems of life, what is the aim of life, how actually we can become happy. This is called brahma-jijñasa. The Vedanta-sutra philosophy, therefore, the first instruction is athato brahma jijñasa. Kena Upaniṣad. Why? And that is human life. If you remain silent, never ask "Why I am suffering?" then you are in the category of cats and dog. And when this inquiry begins, athato brahma jijñasa, then your human life begins. Otherwise you remain in the category of cats and dog. If you are satisfied with all miserable condition of life... In this country, the Western country, they present television, simply presenting problems. That's all. You have got experience. And they are making plans how to solve these problems. This is going on. Whole day and night, and twenty-four hours. But actually, we are in a place with problems only. And intelligent man must inquire how to solve these problems. But they are inquiring, some of them, but not in the right channel. That should be in the... Just like Arjuna had problems, whether to fight or not to fight. So he approached Krṣṇa. Krṣṇa, siṣyas te 'haṁ sadhi maṁ prapannam: [Bg. 2.7] "Krṣṇa, I know that the problems, You can make solution.'' Arjuna knew that Krṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. "Although He's acting as my friend...'' But he knew what Krṣṇa is, and therefore he asked. So we are in face of so many problems. Why not approach Krṣṇa? What is wrong there? And take Krṣṇa's instruction and be happy. That is Krṣṇa consciousness movement. We are opening centers everywhere. Take advantage of this movement and be happy.

Thank you very much.

Devotees: Jaya Srila Prabhupada.

Gurukrpa: Questions, Srila Prabhupada? Anybody who would like to address some question to His Divine Grace, please raise your hand and stand up, any questions. (pause)

Prabhupada: Everything is solved? (laughter)

Puṣṭa Krṣṇa: You had a question?

Guest: Is it possible to see Krṣṇa right now?

Prabhupada: Why don't you see Him in your back?

Guest: But can't I just see Him?

Prabhupada: Well, you have no eyes to see.

Guest: Can I see Him within?

Prabhupada: Yes.

Guest: Why? Why is it not so easy? Why can't each one of us...?

Puṣṭa Krṣṇa: Why is it so difficult to see Krṣṇa? Why can't each of us see Him within?

Prabhupada: You have to become qualified.

Guest: Why do I have to become qualified? Why?

Prabhupada: Yes. Suppose if there is a big man before you in some big meeting, can you talk with him?

Guest: Why...

Prabhupada: No, no. First of all answer this. Suppose there is a big meeting going on, and some big man is present. Suppose the President is there. Can you talk with him? Why? Why you cannot talk? For talking we think you require some qualification. It is not that He's so cheap that you talk with Krṣṇa immediately.

ataḥ; sri-krṣṇa-namad
na bhaved grahyam indriyaiḥ;
sevonmukhe hi jihvadau
svayam eva sphuraty adaḥ;
[Cc. Madhya 17.136]

So if you accept Krṣṇa as the Supreme Lord, then you have to qualify yourself to talk with Him.

Guest: By His grace, Krṣṇa will show Himself to you.

Prabhupada: Yes. If you read Krṣṇa book and if you believe, then you see Krṣṇa. He's not different from the book.

Guest: But we could read words till the cows come home. What good is that going to do?

Devotee: You have to accept what you read. You can't read with an argumentative attitude, or you can't ask questions in an argumentative attitude. You'll never learn.

Guest: I can only accept what I experience.

Prabhupada: What is your experience?

Guest: My experience is that I have seen Krṣṇa with (sic) me own eyes.

Prabhupada: You have seen?

Guest: Yes.

Prabhupada: That's very nice. (devotees laugh)

Guest: It hasn't been hard.

Prabhupada: That's nice.

Guest: I haven't had to read any words.

Prabhupada: Oh, then you are perfect.

Devotee: Are there any other questions please?

Prabhupada: Sit down. You are perfect. (laughter)

Guest: We are all perfect.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Guest: I must speak.

Puṣṭa Krṣṇa: But please, you can speak afterwards. Please sit down.

Prabhupada: You have already spoken. Don't take the whole time. Let others question.

Puṣṭa Krṣṇa: Others also want to see Krṣṇa. Are there any other questions please?

Girl: How can we stop speculating?

Puṣṭa Krṣṇa: How can we stop speculating?

Prabhupada: Stop speculation? Don't manufacture ideas. You take what Krṣṇa says. Then it will automatically stop. Speculation, the question of speculation comes when you do not accept what Krṣṇa says. If you accept Krṣṇa, what Krṣṇa says, then there is no scope of speculation. That is our movement, that "Accept Krṣṇa's teachings as it is. Don't speculate; then it is lost." This is our movement. Krṣṇa says that ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo mattaḥ; sarvaṁ pravartate [Bg. 10.8]: "I am the origin of everything. Everything emanates from Me." If you accept, then it is all right. And if you speculate, you can do that, but our movement is to accept Krṣṇa. Brahma means, janmady asya yataḥ; [SB 1.1.1], the origin of everything. Here is the person. He says, ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo mattaḥ; sarvaṁ pravartate [Bg. 10.8]. Accept it. Very simple thing. You are searching after who is the origin of everything, and Krṣṇa says, "I am the origin of everything." So if you accept, your question is solved. If you don't accept, go on speculating. There is no difficulty. Difficulty is when you do not accept Krṣṇa's instruction. Then difficulty is. Otherwise, there is no difficulty. And why people do not accept? That is also explained in the Bhagavad-gita. Bahunaṁ janmanam ante jñanavan maṁ prapadyate [Bg. 7.19]. After many, many births speculation, when one actually comes to the platform of knowledge, bahunaṁ janmanam ante jñanavan maṁ prapadyate. So we don't find many such jñanavan. Vasudevaḥ; sarvam iti sa mahatma [Bg. 7.19]. One who's accepted Vasudeva, Krṣṇa, as everything, that kind of mahatma is very, very rare to be found. It is not very ordinary thing. So anyone who's accepted Krṣṇa as everything, he is the greatest mahatma. Most fortunate. And we can practically see in these modern countries, everyone four or five years or at most ten years, who never heard what is Krṣṇa. Now thousand, they are devotees of Krṣṇa, because they have accepted Krṣṇa. Vasudevaḥ; sarvam iti sa mahatma [Bg. 7.19]. You accept blindly or knowingly, the result will be the same. If you touch fire knowingly or unknowingly, it will burn. This is the position. If you accept Krṣṇa as the Supreme, ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ; [Bg. 10.8], the origin of everything, then the action will be there. Sa mahatma su-durlabhaḥ;. You'll become the greatest mahatma. And what is the sign of mahatma? Mahatmanas tu maṁ partha daiviṁ prakrtim asritaḥ; bhajanty ananya-manaso [Bg. 9.13]. That is mahatma. He is under the control of daivi prakrti. As we are controlled by this material nature, a mahatma is controlled by the spiritual nature. And what is the sign? Bhajanty ananya-manaso, Hare Krṣṇa, Hare Krṣṇa, Krṣṇa Krṣṇa, Hare Hare. This is the sign. Without any division. So these young boys, girls, they're always chanting. That you'll see: Hare Krṣṇa, Hare Krṣṇa, Krṣṇa Krṣṇa They are mahatmas. Sa mahatma su-durlabhaḥ;. Api cet suduracaro bhajate mam ananya-bhak sadhur eva sa mantavyaḥ; [Bg. 9.30]. These things are there. Very simple thing. You accept Krṣṇa the Supreme, you follow instruction, you become a great mahatma. And if you don't accept,

asraddadhanaḥ; puruṣa
dharmasyasya parantapa
aprapya maṁ nivartante
mrtyu-saṁsara-vartmani
[Bg. 9.3]

If you don't accept asraddadhanaḥ;, then you'll never understand what is God, and you'll be rotating in the cycle of birth and death. Mrtyu-saṁsara-vartmani. You have to accept this path. There are two paths. Either you accept Krṣṇa, go back to home, back to Godhead, or you accept the path of repetition of birth and death. Two alternatives in this human life. Now it is up to you to make your choice which way you want to go.

Guest: After his demise... [break]

Prabhupada: What is that?

Gurukrpa: After if one becomes purified, is it possible when he becomes transferred to the spiritual world that he can meet Rupa Gosvami and other great...

Prabhupada: Yes. Provided you are pure, purified, you can meet everyone. The condition is purified. Yeṣam anta-gataṁ papam. That is stated in the... That is purification. No more sinful life. Yeṣam anta-gataṁ papaṁ jananaṁ puṇya-karmaṇam. A person is always engaged in pious activities. Te dvandva-moha-nirmukta bhajante maṁ drḍha-vrataḥ; [Bg. 7.28]. So, so long one is infected with sinful activities, he cannot understand, neither he can surrender to Krṣṇa. That is also explained by Krṣṇa:

na maṁ duṣkrtino muḍhaḥ;
prapadyante naradhamaḥ;
mayayapahrta-jñana
asuriṁ bhavam asritaḥ;
[Bg. 7.15]

This is the signs. And one who is free from all sinful activities, mahatma, mahatmanas tu maṁ partha daiviṁ prakrtim asritaḥ; bhajanty ananya-manaso [Bg. 9.13]. This is the signs. If one is not accepting Krṣṇa—Krṣṇa means God—as the Supreme, he's placing himself as the Supreme. Just like so many rascals: "I am God." So such persons are called duṣkrtina, sinful. Muḍha. If one is claiming "I am God," how much foolish he is just you can consider. He is under the clutches of maya, being kicked up by the material energy in so many ways, and he's thinking he is God. So they are duṣkrtino muḍhaḥ; naradhamaḥ;. That has been explained. So this simple language is there in the Bhagavad-gita. There is no difficulty. If we actually accept, then our life is...

janma karma ca me divyam
yo janati tattvataḥ;
tyaktva dehaṁ punar janma
naiti mam eti...
[Bg. 4.9]

So we are trying our bit to understand Krṣṇa and to make others to understand Krṣṇa. And therefore we have published about eighty-two books, big books and small books. So we request that you either accept Krṣṇa without any hesitation, or try to understand Krṣṇa by reading all these literatures. And they are being well received all over the world by big, big professors and other exalted persons. So you can take advantage. Thank you very much.

Devotees: Jaya Srila Prabhupada.

Puṣṭa Krṣṇa: Many people have brought dakṣiṇa and things like that. Should they bring now?

Prabhupada: When they want to do?

Puṣṭa Krṣṇa: I was thinking that maybe they could do... It was a little bit too crowded for everyone to come up earlier. Perhaps we could have a kirtana and I could ask those devotees who brought some offering to bring them.

Prabhupada: As you say. (end)

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